It's ironic, that I played both sports for many years without getting this injury - but now seem to have both in my Left Elbow (and I'm Right Handed).....and since I'm retired, am not doing anything repetitive to have caused it.
I am pretty sure it was caused in the Gym - although I'm not doing anything that I haven't done before. I suspect it has come down the "Chain" from a rotator cuff injury in my Left shoulder...which has made its way into Bicep/Tricep and into the Forearm.
There is a lot of contradictory information out there: Ice/Don't Ice; Rest/Don't rest; Avoid exercises that hurt/Adapt exercises that hurt etc
Some say it is Tendonitis; others say it's Tendonosis, as most cases don't have inflammation.
A Theraband Flexbar mostly gets good feedback.....but you need to know what resistance to get. A Simien Twist Bar has different inserts to tailor to need, so even though it's more expensive, might prove cheaper in the end.
I have Resistance Bands and Dumbbells......but are these as good as Flexbars? Some advocate Eccentric exercises as being best.
My conclusion is that a mixture of Stretching; Deep tissue massage and gentle Strength training is probably the way to go. Being a Tendon (or group of Tendons), it could take ages to heal, as getting blood supply there is difficult.
So - Has anyone had it? How long did it take to heal? What Rehab did you do? Did you use a Flexbar? What worked and didn't work? Has it reoccurred?
I will be seeing a Physio or Physical Therapist....but would like feedback from any fellow sufferers.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Old Fartbag wrote:
So - Has anyone had it? How long did it take to heal? What Rehab did you do? Did you use a Flexbar? What worked and didn't work? Has it reoccurred?
I will be seeing a Physio or Physical Therapist....but would like feedback from any fellow sufferers.
Yes, right elbow then left elbow.
1 year for the right elbow
1 year for the left elbow although left elbow still has some pain a couple of years later.
I think the problem was caused by a bad movement pattern during sport but I only recently identified what I think caused it - basically a strain injury. Try to eliminate what is causing the problem. Keep exercising but don't overdo things.
Not sure physio will really help but everyone is different.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@davidof, Thanks.
It's one of those injuries, that what works great for one person, has little effect on another.
I suppose the point of seeing a Physio, is being guided through what to do and when.
A Physical Therapist would dig in, help remove scar tissue and improve blood flow....maybe speeding up recovery.
It's one of those injuries, that what works great for one person, has little effect on another.
I suppose the point of seeing a Physio, is being guided through what to do and when.
A Physical Therapist would dig in, help remove scar tissue and improve blood flow....maybe speeding up recovery.
It's very hard to know, what to do for the best.
It is certainly worth trying some different things. These kind of injuries just seem to take an age to heal though and patience is probably important too. I certainly don't think complete rest is a good idea.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
davidof wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
@davidof, Thanks.
It's one of those injuries, that what works great for one person, has little effect on another.
I suppose the point of seeing a Physio, is being guided through what to do and when.
A Physical Therapist would dig in, help remove scar tissue and improve blood flow....maybe speeding up recovery.
It's very hard to know, what to do for the best.
It is certainly worth trying some different things. These kind of injuries just seem to take an age to heal though and patience is probably important too. I certainly don't think complete rest is a good idea.
Did skiing agitate it in any way.....possibly Pole Plant?
Did skiing agitate it in any way.....possibly Pole Plant?
I think it was that. Initially I strained my elbow doing some lifting (DIY) then cross country skiing - elbow angle not right during the follow through on the push I think agitated the problem. Then obviously too many reps with the incorrect technique.
So if you can identify what may have caused the problem it could be useful for improving you condition.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'm not a physio. But like everyone who play sport, I had my share of them. And had good result in getting rid of them!
In the acute phase, rest and massage to get rid of the pain.
When pain eases, start strengthening, gradually. Taking care not to reignite the problem. Oh yes, continue the massage.
The hope is, you eventually manage to strengthen the muscles and relieve the strain on the tendons.
When you return to doing things that caused it, it should be fairly clear what it is. Either change your way of play, or just build stronger muscle. Or maybe both?
I've lucky. All my issues were caught early and resolved in a few months.
After all it is free
After all it is free
yep, I had last year. I think a basket of golf balls after several years of not hitting a ball caused the on set. It got to the point i couldn't ride my MTB. I had to pull over mid jump line and push my bike out the woods.
Went to see a physio waste of time and money that was. Rested loads but it still hung about. Then while at the ciropractors for my back I mentioned it him. He clicked my elbow joint and worked on an area in my upper back/neck. It was almost instant pain relief. The recovery happed so much quicker after that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
"and since I'm retired, am not doing anything repetitive to have caused it."
Perhaps increased of computer/laptop use in retirement? Poor posture doing that, particularly how you use a mouse, can irritate and inflame a joint. I stopped using a mouse altogether and use a track-pad instead. There is tension in holding the mouse and just clicking with one finger alongside almost no movement in the rest of the arm. If you are not at a desk but on a comfy sofa, then maybe your elbow remains bent at an acute angle for long periods. Doc gave me a mini-stretchy band to use for a flare up.
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@abc, @Mother hucker, @Oblos, Thanks for the input.
I don't think it has - as is usually the case - come from a repetitive movement....and I don't use a Mouse. I think it has come from Lifting Weights, which overloaded the tendons, where the arm was already weakened with problems that came down from the shoulder.
I'm doing a programme of Massage (Cross tissue/Trigger Point/Pin and Stretch/Percussion Massager); Stretches and Light strengthening. I'm also working on the Shoulder area, under the Collar Bone, Biceps and Triceps.
I suspected that seeing a Physio might be a waste of money and may go and see a Physical Therapist, who can "dig in" with more knowledge and intensity than myself.
In the Gym, I'm either adapting/excluding exercises that hurt.
Has anyone used a Flex Bar type product, like Theraband or Simien?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Old Fartbag,
Not an area I personally know much about but the bloke on this podcast appears to know what he is talking about .
It's worth listening to in full if you have a problem but put basically he is saying that tendon injuries result in the healthy portion of the tendon stiffening to protect the injured part and the injured part needs some load in order to regenerate decent tissue. In order to load this you need to do isometrically contract on the tendon in order to get the non injured part to slacken slightly and load the injury a little . There are exercises in the link.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@T Bar, Thank you Sir.
I have certainly read some stuff talking about Isometrics and Eccentric loading to help strengthen. Will listen to the Podcast.
Edit. Just listened to the whole thing. It's truly excellent, especially as it helps pull together the disparate and conflicting strands of what I've been reading. What he explains, makes sense.
Thank you again.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 3-05-22 17:25; edited 1 time in total
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I got tendonitis repeatedly in my elbows when younger due to too much climbing. Massage and the loading exercises sorted it out for me, although I had to keep on top of it to stop it flaring back up. Similar sort of exercises to the video T Bar posted.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Old Fartbag,
Glad it was useful, I thought it was pretty good.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Had it in both elbows. Probably a combo of using poles when touring and a whole lot of mountain biking.
Had a decent blast of physio last spring, which took the discomfort down to tolerable levels. One of the physios also did some acupuncture on it, which did seem to work very well (I believe tennis elbow is one area where acupuncture has been proven to work in legit clinical studies).
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Poster: A snowHead
@stevomcd, Was it Acupuncture or Dry Needling?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Old Fartbag, what's the difference?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
abc wrote:
@Old Fartbag, what's the difference?
The only similarity is that they both use thin needles.
Acupuncture is an ancient technique developed in Asia, that takes years of training and is based on Channel Theory, restoring the Body's Chi.
Dry Needling on the other hand, is a reasonably recent technique, which is much quicker to learn and is about stimulating Trigger points in the muscles.
The reason I asked, is many Physios do Dry Needling, but very few can do Acupuncture.
Physio did claim to be qualified in "Oriental Therapy" or similar, as well as having a physio degree so I guess so.
Her advice was, she treats most things with standard modern physio. Where she knows from experience that acupuncture can help, she suggests it. In this case, her advice was that she can achieve the same amount of relief for tennis elbow in 2 sessions of acupuncture as she could in 10 sessions of physio. From my personal experience, she wasn't wrong. I am a devout sceptic, but the benefit was undeniable.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I've never seen acupuncture with smokes!
(Yes, I've had various "needling" sessions, some done in Asia. But no smoke and none with heated needles)
As long as it resolves the issue, I don't always need to know what their "theory" is based on.
After all it is free
After all it is free
abc wrote:
I've never seen acupuncture with smokes!
I have in the past.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Old Fartbag, It's unusual to have both at the same time if they've come on together at the same time.
Are you sure you've got both?
I've had tennis in right elbow (from skiing lots in slush with crap technique) and golfer's in left elbow from the gym
If you think yours is from the gym I can advise later - actually off to physio now but mine is getting better (after 4 months...).
For Golfer's, the treatment depends heavily on the cause IME
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
@red 27, 80% of the pain is on the outside, as in Tennis Elbow, but there is a certain amount of pain on the inside.
It has to have come from the Gym, as I have done nothing else that could have caused it.
I am currently carrying out the advice in the Podcast posted by T Bar.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Developed golfers elbow from playing volleyball and the answer was acupuncture by a Chinese qualified practitioner.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I have it in my left arm (I am Right handed).
Suspect it has been a combo of pole planting (back here after France), using hiking poles walking, and a bit of cycling.
Had it for a month, been using massage gun and stretching. Wifes pal is a qualified acupuncture therapist, may give her a bell.
Good thread.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I found Tennis elbow more debilitating in day-to-day life than Golfer's, but ultimately easier to treat
For me the the successful treatment was being strict with the regime of stretching and strengthening. For the latter I used reverse dumbbell wrist curls and rubber band finger extensor exercises.
I also had some needle treatment from the physio which I was sceptical about but which I think really helped.
Mine to about 6 months to fix but the first 3 months of that was me in denial / being stupid / making it worse / not understanding what was wrong.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
My Golfer's elbow was caused by going too heavy in the gym with seated rows and pullups/downs. Going too heavy made my grip partially fail and so too much force went through my inner forearm muscles which ultimately inflamed the tendon where it attaches to the inside of the elbow.
specifically this muscle is called the Flexor Digitalis Superficialis (sp) and Jeff explains the issue well here as it applied to me.
The way he stretchs in this video was much more effective for me than the similar stretch with the arm extended out in front.
I'm surprised no one mentioned the forearm strap! (even I forgot about it). But it's the most effective in stopping the symptoms from getting worse.
Whatever treatment and movement modification that end up clearing up the problem, the 1st step is recognize you've got a problem. But rather than just stop doing everything that seem to irritate it, the forearm strap allow you to go on with most things without excruciating pain and additional irritation to the tendon.
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