 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@menatarms, @Old Fartbag, looks like I'm shopping for something so following this with interest, thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| @menatarms, FWIW. I have personally found, that ski construction has the biggest effect on whether the ski will be too stiff for me.....and ski width/sidecut/design, is about how good the ski will be in different applications - You can have Damp and Playful skis in all widths ie. Choose the Width based on where you are going to ski; and chose the Construction that suits your weight/aggressiveness. |
Seems I have a lot to learn! Will do more research and get together a list of skis to try out in October. Hoping to attend a course in Italy over the summer so will try to be a bit more picky about what I rent too to get a feel of different widths/radii etc.
| captainslow wrote: |
| @menatarms, @Old Fartbag, looks like I'm shopping for something so following this with interest, thanks |
I'd highly recommend giving Jon a call, really helped me a lot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
best skis for fast on piste carving would be any FIS SL or GS. End of discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| best skis for fast on piste carving would be any FIS SL or GS. End of discussion. |
Yes but FIS skis aren't really practical for me, or I imagine most recreational skiers. Just getting the highest end race ski I can find, while tempting, doesn't seem a particularly sound idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@menatarms, If you go to the Octobertest then you will probably be able to try FIS SL skis as well as recreational race ones, Dynastar typically have the full range there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| rjs wrote: |
| @menatarms, If you go to the Octobertest then you will probably be able to try FIS SL skis as well as recreational race ones, Dynastar typically have the full range there. |
Awesome, do you know if Rossignol tend to be there? Jon mentioned quite a few brands, I'm sure I'll find something suitable there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I’ll give Jon a call, currently leaning towards Dynastar FIS SL R22, I’m missing a ski that punishes me for being sloppy 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| menatarms wrote: |
Seems I have a lot to learn! Will do more research and get together a list of skis to try out in October. Hoping to attend a course in Italy over the summer so will try to be a bit more picky about what I rent too to get a feel of different widths/radii etc.
|
IME. The areas that are important when choosing the right ski/making the correct shortlist, might include:
1. Your weight. I think if you are light and a holiday skier....it is vital that you pick a ski in a construction and a length that you can bend.....otherwise the ski will be the boss of you, rather than the other way around.
2. Your ability/aggressiveness. It is crucial that the ski is forgiving enough to give confidence at the level you are currently at, while still having headroom to allow for improvement. Unless you ski everywhere at Mach 3, then a ski that is happy pottering about, is sensible.
3. How many weeks per year. This ultimately determines how good you will realistically get....and thus what ski you should be aiming at. In a 1 week holiday, it usually takes at least a couple of days to get back where you were. This is hard enough with a reasonably forgiving ski - but with a full on race ski, could be longer.
4. Where you intend to ski. This is where versatility comes in and what conditions you want the ski to be comfortable in: Ice? Moguls? Slush/Crud? Off the side of the Piste? Off Piste?
So, if technical high speed carving on reasonably flat terrain is what you are after - that determines one type of ski. Remember, Race Skis are optimised for one place - The Race Course......and in themselves are unlikely to make you a better skier, anymore than jumping into a Formula 1 car will make you a better driver....in fact, could have the opposite effect unless you sign up for the proper training.
If you want your ski to handle whatever the mountain throws at you - including in Spring weather - that would have you looking at a narrow AM ski that carves well, copes better in a variety of terrain/conditions, but ultimately compromises On Piste ability somewhat. IMV. Don't discount this option too quickly without trying it. Unless you are lucky enough to live in the Mountains (and not hiring), your skis have to cope with the hand you are dealt. It's very easy to get carried away with how good you might be and what conditions you realistically ski in.
5. Preference - Playful or Damp. This is also very important - especially if you don't weigh a lot - as it may determine how much you enjoy your skiing. Do you like a lighter ski with "Flickability", but has a speed limit; or a heavy Damp, Race Charger, with no speed limit - but a handful in Bumps, slow speed and Off Piste.....or something in between. I personally don't like too stiff a ski, as I am not good enough, or heavy enough to handle it in all conditions.....and I don't go everywhere at high speed and enjoy mixing things up. Whatever you do - be careful not to turn skiing into a mixture of a chore and a battle.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 26-04-22 13:41; edited 6 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| menatarms wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| best skis for fast on piste carving would be any FIS SL or GS. End of discussion. |
Yes but FIS skis aren't really practical for me, or I imagine most recreational skiers. Just getting the highest end race ski I can find, while tempting, doesn't seem a particularly sound idea. |
Perhaps not, but it is the answer to your question ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think the mistake most people make is thinking the choice is about brands when really it is about getting focused as to what type of offering in a range is most suitable as brands will offer very similar performing skis in given niches from FIS spec down to piste cruisey. I some instances like race skis e.g. the Dynastar and Rossi skis will be identical beyond the cosmetics as they come from the same stable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| menatarms wrote: |
Seems I have a lot to learn! Will do more research and get together a list of skis to try out in October. Hoping to attend a course in Italy over the summer so will try to be a bit more picky about what I rent too to get a feel of different widths/radii etc.
|
IME. The areas that are important when choosing the right ski/making the correct shortlist, might include:
1. Your weight. I think if you are light and a holiday skier....it is vital that you pick a ski in a construction and a length that you can bend.....otherwise the ski will be the boss of you, rather than the other way around.
2. Your ability/aggressiveness. It is crucial that the ski is forgiving enough to give confidence at the level you are currently at, while still having headroom to allow for improvement. Unless you ski everywhere at Mach 3, then a ski that is happy pottering about, is sensible.
3. How many weeks per year. This ultimately determines how good you will realistically get....and thus what ski you should be aiming at. In a 1 week holiday, it usually takes at least a couple of days to get back where you were. This is hard enough with a reasonably forgiving ski - but with a full on race ski, could be longer.
4. Where you intend to ski. This is where versatility comes in and what conditions you want the ski to be comfortable in: Ice? Moguls? Slush/Crud? Off the side of the Piste? Off Piste?
So, if technical high speed carving on reasonably flat terrain is what you are after - that determines one type of ski. Remember, Race Skis are optimised for one place - The Race Course......and in themselves are unlikely to make you a better skier, anymore than jumping into a Formula 1 car will make you a better driver....in fact, could have the opposite effect unless you sign up for the proper training.
If you want your ski to handle whatever the mountain throws at you - including in Spring weather - that would have you looking at a narrow AM ski that carves well, copes better in a variety of terrain/conditions, but ultimately compromises On Piste ability somewhat. IMV. Don't discount this option too quickly without trying it. Unless you are lucky enough to live in the Mountains (and not hiring), your skis have to cope with the hand you are dealt. It's very easy to get carried away with how good you might be and what conditions you realistically ski in.
5. Preference - Playful or Damp. This is also very important - especially if you don't weigh a lot - as it may determine how much you enjoy your skiing. Do you like a lighter ski with "Flickability", but has a speed limit; or a heavy Damp, Race Charger, with no speed limit - but a handful in Bumps, slow speed and Off Piste.....or something in between. I personally don't like too stiff a ski, as I am not good enough, or heavy enough to handle it in all conditions.....and I don't go everywhere at high speed and enjoy mixing things up. Whatever you do - be careful not to turn skiing into a mixture of a chore and a battle. |
Thanks, a lot to absorb there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| menatarms wrote: |
Thanks, a lot to absorb there. |
The idea was to get you to stop for a moment and have a very objective and realistic discussion with yourself about, What you Ski; Where you ski; When you ski; What brings enjoyment. IMV. You either need a "Quiver" of specialist skis - or something with a little versatility/practicality/forgiveness built in. A "One Trick Pony" of a ski can be limiting.
It is all too easy to get caught up in the hype and then buy skis for where you would like to be skiing, rather than what you actually ski eg. Getting a 110 underfoot ski that is then in fact only used 10% of the time Off Piste.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Did someone say buy more skis?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| ster wrote: |
| Did someone say buy more skis? |
Is the Pope Catholic?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| ster wrote: |
| Did someone say buy more skis? |
Is the Pope Catholic? |
Does he ski too?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| ster wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| ster wrote: |
| Did someone say buy more skis? |
Is the Pope Catholic? |
Does he ski too? |
On some Parlor Cardinals, I believe. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I got a pair of Nordica Dobermann Spitfire 80RD skis for carving groomers in the 174 length. I have a couple pair of 120 flex boots-Lange, Dalbello and they tear it up. I haven't tried a lot of other carvers; but Rossi makes some good ones (and always has.) I am 63, 5' 7" 210ibs (96kg) when the snow is hard and/or icy I grab my dawgs, when its soft and fluffy my Enforcer 100's (they can carve and hold an edge on ice too)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I took my Blizzard Bonafide 95mm underfoot to the PSB. The snow was hardpack and there was no fluff thus I thought I could be enjoying myself on some narrower skis. I rented some brand new Nordica Doberman Spitfires and had a real blast.
I am 96kg and 6' 3'' so always buy/rent the longest. Arguably I am an Advanced skier having skied >50 weeks and have tune up lessons every year on & off piste.
I also have a 115mm underfoot off-piste ski and have used it only a handful of times although I ski 3-4 weeks a year. A better investment would have been a piste ski like is being discussed here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Weight, aggressiveness, how often and where you intend to ski are certainly all major factors. I mentioned my Dobermann's; but I have also read some really good things about Stockli Laser AR and AX, Head WC Rebel eSpeed, Blizzard Thunderbird R15 WB and HRC Comps, Salomon S/Force Bold, Fisher RC4CT.
Since I am aggressive, heavier and have over 35 yrs on planks, and tend to like longer skis (back in the day it was 200-205's off the shelf comps/equipes-real racers get special high tuned skis, often custom made) 174 cm is a good length in a carver for me, and 185 cm for All Mnt boards.
Skis are often rated in seven or eight categories like: Stability at Speed, Playfulness, Versatility, Forgiveness, Quickness/maneuverability, Crud performance, Hard snow performance, overall impression. Typically, a ski will rate highly in several; but not across the board and which things are most important to you and your style will help you pick.
For instance, Stability and versatility are more important to me than playfulness or forgiveness
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
From the USA
No need to ever mention brand....... Many brands more than abundantly provide excellent performance. I would however not overlook one salient point : skis whose FLEX is engineered - along with overall radius - to be even/balanced and NOT too stiff. A number of skis are, in all candor, simply unbalanced and TOO stiff which impedes carving performance. Also, avoid the &^%$#@! wide-o-rama fixation nonsense. Don't go too short, as well. The longer ski distributes the skier's weight over a greater area, in equal breath distributes force over a greater area. In other words it is LIGHTER per square whatever and absorbs greater shock. Let THAT marinate.
What's that brand MADE IN CHINA??? Count me out !!
Gym work is all well and good. But doing a number of physical pursuits outdoors is your best ticket to being physically fit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
So you are going to go directly from rental kit to near, or even actual, FIS kit in one jump because you are flippin fast (but not good enough to be an instructor)?
That sounds like Plan B to me.
Dangerous for someone...probably the poor sods who are having a nice time skiing somewhere below you on the piste.
You might want to go and have a rethink...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@rungsp, I can't see why you'd think it dangerous. Getting race-stiff skis or boots as a near beginner would obviously not be a good idea, as it would make everything much more difficult, and indeed I've seen it on quite a few occasions, and generally sent students back to the shop for more suitable equipment, but it's not like they're going to make someone ski fast and out of control per se.
They may very well not be the ideal for the OP here either, but dangerous? I don't think so.
While I'm here I might add that the choice of ski should not be based on how fast someone skis, or wants to ski. Anyone can ski fast on any ski in the right conditions; what a race ski will do for a technically good and precise skier is give a greater level of control, at high speeds as well as low, but just like the old longer is faster mantra I recall from when I started skiing, they will not, in or of themselves, make someone ski any faster.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
What I suspect may be dangerous is the mindset of a self confessed punter (rental kit) who is not a great skier ( again self confessed) who just wants to enable him/her self to ski as fast as possible.
Speed! More speed!
It's a dangerous mindset seen all too often, and by no means unique on forums.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@rungsp, you are absolutely right.
Like the nutters who drive down my hill (plenty steep) pissed (it's rural-ish France) at 02h00. If you can't stop in your line of sight if you need to, you are going too fast.
I have a variety of FIS race skis in my garage, and I'd like to think I know how to have fun on them safely. But it is not just about going fast, until you are in gates.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| JamesHJ wrote: |
The hero elite Ti skis will do a job for you. Check that the radius is not below 12-13 m at that length though.
Some of the shorter punter slalom skis go as low as 11.3 m, which feels a bit weird to me personally.
Money no object? Keener on medium radius turns? Try the Rossi master skis in one of the shorter lengths. |
I wouldn't recommend the masters as a ski to progress on at that level, given what the OP said.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
