This is my second season of skiing and I just found myself stuck into the A-frame dilemma. The reason is that I am confused about the cause of my A frame so I didn’t have a clear direction for what to improve.
First of all, I am slightly bowlegged. When I wear ski boots on, I think I am naturally standing a bit on my outside edge of both feet. Because when I try to bend my knees in a normal stand, my knee will come together a bit ( in order to put both ski flat on snow)
I know one reason for an A frame is putting too much weight on the inner ski (and that’s what my ski instructor keeps telling me), but until I can do the one leg turn drill (stork turn), he was confused as well. I can make every turn with the outside ski and lifting my inside ski up, which means I am able to put 100% weight on my outside ski during the turn. But once I try the put down my inside ski, the A frame appears again. Laterally I tried to look back on my video again and again. I am not sure if my bowlegs contributed to the problem. It seems like when I try to put my outside ski in the inside edge, my leg is naturally in a “<”shape (knee pointing inwards). So no matter how hard I tried to match the ski in parallel, I will still be in a A frame position. I am uploading a photo captured in the middle of my turn and a short video of myself skiing.
Does anyone have experience or seen any skier with bowlegged with this problem? Or am I wrong with the reason of my A frame? ( maybe about rotation of hip?)
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 25-03-22 17:20; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Why do you think its the outside ski that's the issue? I'd say your issue is as likely or more likely to be you failing to get the inside ski/ankle over onto its outside edge. Probably that's happening right from the transition
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
JudgeMent4l wrote:
Why do you think its the outside ski that's the issue? I'd say your issue is as likely or more likely to be you failing to get the inside ski/ankle over onto its outside edge. Probably that's happening right from the transition
Thanks for replying. Do you mean I have to “actively” roll my inside ski on outside edge?
As I am putting all on weight on the Outside ski, I just relax my inside leg and try my best to keep it close to my outside leg - which I can only close the knees but not the feet....
And I just figure out I can upload my video on YouTube and post it here. It may give a better view of my problem..
@skiforfun, why do you think you need to keep your legs together? from the pictures if you opened up your knees and kept your skis at hip width apart that might then unblock your ankles/knees and allow them to roll onto the edges? Think of trying to keep a ballon or soccer (I am guessing you are in the USA) ball between your knees. You could try skiing on an easy slope with a balloon between your knees?
Yes you do you need to actively roll your inside ski onto the new edge, this might be good to watch
@skiforfun, why do you think you need to keep your legs together? from the pictures if you opened up your knees and kept your skis at hip width apart that might then unblock your ankles/knees and allow them to roll onto the edges? Think of trying to keep a ballon or soccer (I am guessing you are in the USA) ball between your knees. You could try skiing on an easy slope with a balloon between your knees?
Yes you do you need to actively roll your inside ski onto the new edge, this might be good to watch
Thanks for replying. Yes I have gone through this video series before. I tried to ski with leg in the hip width but I end up with the knees closing and the foot apart when I start the turn. Then I starting to think of trying to keep my leg close together, try not to have any room between my knees...but the funny thing is - in the middle of the turn, my feet still separated and knees are touching.
That’s means no matter I am skiing in a wide or narrow stance, I end up with the same position in the turns lol
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I can't really offer advice on how to resolve the problem, but I used to think the same-i.e. that I was naturally knock-kneed (a girl thing). However, I can say that really good tuition did sort out the problem, I just can't for the life of me remember what did the trick!
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 25-03-22 17:26; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
philwig wrote:
I'm not sure how many days you get in a season. If you have weird legs then it's easy enough to get some canting in your boots to sort that.
Quote:
..which I can only close the knees but not the feet....
Are you deliberately trying to force your legs together? That's never been a great idea.
It has been around 25 days in this season. I would say a total of 40 days.
Yes I tried to keep legs together because I though it can eliminate my A frame. At first I ski in a wide position and I found my knee closing up when I am making turns - So I tried to keep the entire legs close..but then I still end up with this position in the photo..
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A-Framing that you can't do anything about is caused by "Knock Knees", which are the opposite of "Bow Legs".
As said above - keep legs hip width apart.....and be patient with the turn ie. Don't rush it.
Aha! Found the feedback form from a Warren Smith Ski Academy course from late 2016. Advice that's bang on your issue was as follows
"The most important thing for yourself is to continue getting rid of your A-frame. This is very common in your skiing and a result of either your feet being too far apart or your knees dropping together. You’ll always have a tendency to A-frame as your natural skeletal structure drops into this shape. For this reason you’ve got to work really hard to fix it! Remember that every time you enter a turn be sure to take you time to feel your inside little toe engage and then (most importantly) your calf on the side calf of your boot. These two feelings/movements will make you work and engage your thigh more than you normally would and pull you out of your A-frame which is not only a weak position (stresses the knee) but also causes unequal edges, limits how far you can move inside the turn with your hip (and therfore your edge angle) and encourages you to tip your head and shoulders into the turn which will result in your outside ski losing grip. This is the second point to keep addressing - be sure that once you’ve worked your inside leg and engaged that edge properly you don’t allow your head and shoulders to lean too far into the turn (especially from the fall line to end of turn). Keep dropping your outside shoulder through the turn - don’t allow it to go the other way (fall inside the turn)".
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Old Fartbag wrote:
A-Framing that you can't do anything about is caused by "Knock Knees", which are the opposite of "Bow Legs".
As said above - keep legs hip width apart.....and be patient with the turn ie. Don't rush it.
I am still at the stage of steering and skidding. Haven’t start carving yet. But I think the cause of the problem is similar.
Regarding the bowlegged problem, tbh at the beginning I thought the same. Only knock knees would have the A frame problem. But laterally when I looked at my self in the mirror with ski boots on..it is indeed the opposite.
With bowlegs, I am naturally standing on the outside on my feet because the lower part of my leg is bending inward. Especially when I wear my ski boots, the stiffness of the boots aligned my feet with my inward-bending lower legs..which means I am forced to stand on the outside edge of the boots in a natural straight up position. I actually need to force my leg into a “knock knee” position to get my ski boot lying flat on the ground......
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Perty wrote:
Aha! Found the feedback form from a Warren Smith Ski Academy course from late 2016. Advice that's bang on your issue was as follows
"The most important thing for yourself is to continue getting rid of your A-frame. This is very common in your skiing and a result of either your feet being too far apart or your knees dropping together. You’ll always have a tendency to A-frame as your natural skeletal structure drops into this shape. For this reason you’ve got to work really hard to fix it! Remember that every time you enter a turn be sure to take you time to feel your inside little toe engage and then (most importantly) your calf on the side calf of your boot. These two feelings/movements will make you work and engage your thigh more than you normally would and pull you out of your A-frame which is not only a weak position (stresses the knee) but also causes unequal edges, limits how far you can move inside the turn with your hip (and therfore your edge angle) and encourages you to tip your head and shoulders into the turn which will result in your outside ski losing grip. This is the second point to keep addressing - be sure that once you’ve worked your inside leg and engaged that edge properly you don’t allow your head and shoulders to lean too far into the turn (especially from the fall line to end of turn). Keep dropping your outside shoulder through the turn - don’t allow it to go the other way (fall inside the turn)".
Thanks bro that hit the nail right on the head !
I always focus on outside ski, and left my inside ski lift a bit and that’s it. Maybe I didn’t manage my inside ski at all. Next time I will try focusing on my inside ski - especially my feet..
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
The little toe thing works for me-somehow that makes more sense than the instruction of rolling your feet-maybe because it's a sensation you can really feel as you implement it.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Perty wrote:
The little toe thing works for me-somehow that makes more sense than the instruction of rolling your feet-maybe because it's a sensation you can really feel as you implement it.
You are absolutely right! The truth is I thought I have rolled my ankle hard enough but when I watch my video my inside feet is like do nothing lol. Next time I will try the litte toe thing. Thanks:)
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Perty wrote:
The little toe thing works for me-somehow that makes more sense than the instruction of rolling your feet-maybe because it's a sensation you can really feel as you implement it.
I went back to the advice again and it was insane!
It points out all my problem....that’s why my upper body always turn in quicker than my legs. I tried my best to keep my upper body calm and try to counter, but I ended up still turning my upper body before my legs. That was exactly being described in the advice you quoted me. Hip movement is limited and I have no way to turn except using my upper body. Thank you again for your help. I wish I should have this post before the end of the season. Hahaha now I have to figure out where else can I try and practice the little toe thing
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
skiforfun wrote:
Perty wrote:
The little toe thing works for me-somehow that makes more sense than the instruction of rolling your feet-maybe because it's a sensation you can really feel as you implement it.
I went back to the advice again and it was insane!
It points out all my problem....that’s why my upper body always turn in quicker than my legs. I tried my best to keep my upper body calm and try to counter, but I ended up still turning my upper body before my legs. That was exactly being described in the advice you quoted me. Hip movement is limited and I have no way to turn except using my upper body. Thank you again for your help. I wish I should have this post before the end of the season. Hahaha now I have to figure out where else can I try and practice the little toe thing
There are a lot of good drills for activating the LTE of the inside ski. But you say you are not yet carving so maybe begin with that. The LTE exercises are generally quite advanced and assume that the skier is already able to carve.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Years ago a friend I skied with was bow-legged and appeared to be skiing knock-kneed to compensate, he made some shims to go between the ski and binding which solved the problem!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi!
I am a ski instructor from Canada. I personally also have this issue if not adjusted. I think you are the opposite of bow legged. You are knock kneed! I’m guessing when trying to stand on a flat ski you have to roll your feet out? When you pick up your inside ski your whole foot has to roll in to balance on inside edge of outside ski and the leg you are picking up naturally swings in?!
You are a well balanced pretty good skier. You need a boot fitter! They will build up your foot beds and unjust the cuff of your boots to help realign your legs.
I do the exact same thing to my boots. It works.
Let me know how it goes and if this helps. Happy skiing!
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Poster: A snowHead
