No, I haven't been using the same outfit for 30 years but always the same type of standard insulated jacket & salopettes. I've never ever worn or needed to wear anything but underpants under my salopettes, even in Canada -20c but when it gets hot, the liners of the salopettes get clammy & sweaty & not feasible to wash them on a trip. the same goes for my jacket, often just a cotton T shirt under the jacket & the arm liners get similarly clammy by the end of the week. Converting to uninsulated shell with separate liners / base layers that can be changed / washed daily / midweek seems like an overdue plan.
My spec for what I am looking for,
Uninsulated jacket & salopettes
Not bothered about breathable fabrics, resistance to rain/snow penetration is more important.
Must have zippable vents underarm and on the legs, the more, the bigger the better.
Must be light colour that does not absorb the heat of the sun, nothing worse than getting to a lift queue after an energetic run & feeling warm, only to be turned into a solar collector by my ski wear, there are times when I have left a ski lift queue to get away from the heat of the sun even in my current light coloured ski wear.
Has anybody come across anything that might fit this description?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Unfortunately, I don't think Arcteryx include luminous yellow and orange in their palette?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@tangowaggon, I've seen your various posts about being a sweaty mess, but hadn't clocked that you were using full insulated gear. I'm not surprised you have a problem!
What you won't like, is the price. Cheap gear, for whatever reason, always seems to be insulated. Also, in the UK, there isn't a lot of choice in actual shops. A couple of years ago, I was in the market for a jacket and had a wander around the big SnR in Covent Garden while I was in London. There wasn't a single non-insulated specimen in the women's section. The internet has more.
Light coloured stuff gets filthy, and I hear you on the black, but really any colours will work. It is the insulation making you hot. Any decent freeride/touring jacket will have zips and be waterproof.
Be a bit flexible on your options, and see what comes up in the sales. Now is a good time. I have Sweet Protection and Black Diamond shells, but all the premium brands will have something – Norrøna, Arcteryx, Ortovox, Dynafit etc. Slightly cheaper is Mountain Equipment, Helly Hansen. There are rave reviews on here of Elevenate kit. Try Sport Pursuit.
Add ski to something and it doubles the price... there is plenty of technical gear out there for much better prices that ski gear.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Not adding too much to the above but:
- mountaineering/decent walking jacket will be fine. You may miss a couple of ski specific things (dedicated ski pass pocket, powder skirt) - up to you whether you think the additional cost is worth it
- ski specific kecks are more worth it because they’ll have hard wearing fabric in ski specific places
- look at sportpursuit and other discounters
- I know you say you don’t care about breathability but any remotely decent kit will be fairly breathable
- time to quit wearing cotton T-shirts as your base layer
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Arno wrote:
Not adding too much to the above but:
- time to quit wearing cotton T-shirts as your base layer
I second that. (Or +1 in www speak )
I was surprised to hear that you are still in cotton! As you know, once it's wet you are wet for the day .
Time to treat yourself to high-wicking shirts. They really do work!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I know you see no problem with Cotton - but I worry your feeling of clamminess is down to the cotton T Shirt and maybe kit that isn't that breathable.
I would make the ability to Wick moisture and it's ability Breathe your highest priority....you obviously "run hot", which makes this all the more important.
Look to the likes of Gore-tex for shells, which are improving breathability all the time.
The layer next to the skin is very important and mustn't retain moisture. If it is reasonably fitted, it works more efficiently. Silk is now considered not that ideal.
TK Maxx usually has some great bargains - but you need to know what you are looking at and start checking from September/Oct.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Cyclists tend to be cheapskates compared to skiers. Wicking base layers for less than a tenner are often available.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
tangowaggon wrote:
No, I haven't been using the same outfit for 30 years but always the same type of standard insulated jacket & salopettes. I've never ever worn or needed to wear anything but underpants under my salopettes, even in Canada -20c but when it gets hot, the liners of the salopettes get clammy & sweaty & not feasible to wash them on a trip. the same goes for my jacket, often just a cotton T shirt under the jacket & the arm liners get similarly clammy by the end of the week. Converting to uninsulated shell with separate liners / base layers that can be changed / washed daily / midweek seems like an overdue plan.
What the hell are you wearing
What is insulated with? Does it have any breathability at all?
My salopettes (Surfanic) have two layers - a thin fleece layer on the inside and a waterproof and breathable outer shell (both 5000 on mine). They have zip vents on the inside thigh which is useful late season. Underneath I wear merino mix thermals (same pair the whole week usually).
Jacket not dissimilar but wear thermal, technical T, mid-weight fleece underneath. Jacket has armpit zips. If especially cold might put on a denser fleece.
tangowaggon wrote:
My spec for what I am looking for,
Uninsulated jacket & salopettes
Would have thought this was standard tbh unless I am missing something...
tangowaggon wrote:
Not bothered about breathable fabrics,
You should be - it's probably one of the reasons for your clamminess
tangowaggon wrote:
Must be light colour that does not absorb the heat of the sun, nothing worse than getting to a lift queue after an energetic run & feeling warm, only to be turned into a solar collector by my ski wear, there are times when I have left a ski lift queue to get away from the heat of the sun even in my current light coloured ski wear.
I've never noticed much difference based on the colour and light colours get dirty more quickly. I suspect you are thinking it's an issue because of the breathability issues of what you are wearing rather than the colour. There are a lot of people skiing in dark clothing.
tangowaggon wrote:
Has anybody come across anything that might fit this description?
We buy stuff from Surfanic, Trespass and for more general gear Mountain Warehouse.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Colour makes a massive difference to how hot it feels, I once made the mistake of wearing a dark jacket in Andorra and I was unbearably hot, one old C&A jacket that was dayglo yellow, had a black star in the middle of the back & I could feel the heat burning through in the centre of my back from just that one small area.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
As I have said, breathable fabrics don't breathe anywhere near enough to cool me down when I need it, I always manage cooling such that I rarely get very sweaty in the first place, frequently skiing with my jacket fully unzipped.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@tangowaggon, your experience is clouded by the lousy kit you’re using. Buy some decent kit and suspect you’ll be fine.
Not at all bothered about light stuff getting dirty, better to be scruffy & comfortable.
I have never noticed cotton getting wet & staying wet all day but I guess that I hate the feeling of being hot, I take steps to cool down long before I get very sweaty
When it's warm, the front pockets open up almost the full length of the jacket and it's like skiing in a string vest!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@tangowaggon, It's not cheap --- but Paramo clothing lasts for ages, and they have lot's of layering options which should allow you to adjust your level of insulation to your temperature. When it's warmer why wear a jacket at all?
Not at all bothered about light stuff getting dirty, better to be scruffy & comfortable.
I have never noticed cotton getting wet & staying wet all day but I guess that I hate the feeling of being hot, I take steps to cool down long before I get very sweaty
Quality 3 layer shells are the way to go....and generally have venting zips. Look for a Breathability rating of 20,000 and over for the best fabrics. Goretex Pro is 25,000 GM/M²/24HR. I don't see proper specs for the HH.
If you go this route - you might as well try lightweight, long sleeve, fitted base layers and see if you notice a difference. This will keep your entire upper body dry. In your case, thermal warmth is less important than the ability to move sweat away as fast and efficiently as possible. Very light, 3/4 length bottoms also help with stopping clamminess, without adding much warmth. Cotton acts as a moisture sponge and stays damp.
Extra warmth is then achieved with layering. Look for fleeces with armpit venting.
Bamboo base layers are becoming more popular.
Re Cotton: "Cotton fabric is not ideal as a base layer for hiking or other outdoor activities. When cotton becomes wet from your sweat, the air pockets in the fabric fill up with moisture and can become saturated, which means you lose your insulation. Additionally this means your sweat isn’t evaporating as efficiently".
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 3-03-22 13:45; edited 7 times in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@tangowaggon, Register for Sport Pursuit - and you will be spoilt for choice over the next few months (I got a brilliant Black Diamond shell for a steal and a superb Kilpi shell for next to nothing!)
+1 - I have some 60% off Elevenate stuff from there that I'm pretty happy with. April/May will probably have some better offers than right now as this season's gear gets cleared out.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
tangowaggon wrote:
Must be light colour that does not absorb the heat of the sun, nothing worse than getting to a lift queue after an energetic run & feeling warm, only to be turned into a solar collector by my ski wear,
I've skied in a range of colours and never found this to be an issue. You're over thinking the colour thing.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@tangowaggon, I was going to mention the Helly Hansen deals on sportpursuit but looks like you beat me to it. I have a pair of their Sogn bib shell trousers and I'm really impressed by them. Really durable 'helly tech professional' shell material, with massive zips that open to the air with no mesh so great for venting. Probably wouldn't recommend bibs though if you struggle with overheating. Any decent shell from a good manufacturer should be a big step up.
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Breathable fabrics, good base layers and proper insulation are the way ahead to achieve relatively stable comfortable temperatures.
The alternative is overheat, sweat, unzip, get cold, zip up, work hard to warm up cold wet layers... repeat. God help you if injure yourself and have to wait for rescue in those cold wet layers.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 3-03-22 16:00; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I think a good base layer makes a world of difference and I was very impressed by the 150 line from Smartwool. A fleece on top, non-insulated jacket and i was very comfortable throughout the day.
To be fair to @tangowaggon opening a zip allows a ton more air circulation than the most breathable waterproof fabric. I do still think he’d be surprised by how much wider the range of comfortable temperatures is with good breathable fabrics
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
This is a bit strange. OP states that "the liners of the salopettes get clammy & sweaty & not feasible to wash them on a trip. the same goes for my jacket, often just a cotton T shirt under the jacket & the arm liners get similarly clammy by the end of the week" then states he is not bothered about breathable gear as "I always manage cooling such that I rarely get very sweaty in the first place". OP asks for advice on alternatives for skiing and then seems to reject that advice out of hand!
Op has been advised that cotton is a terrible base layer as it retains moisture, and will contribute to the "clammy" feeling. This is a fact and good alternatives have been suggested.
OP has been advised that a breathable shell and ability to layer moisture-wicking layers according to temperature is the best solution. This is also true and good suggestions have been given.
My advice to @tangowaggon, is to do just a little research to validate that cotton is a bad idea, which base layers work best and how, and the benefits of breathable shells. Then find kit that you can afford based on that new understanding.
I work outdoors a lot (as well as doing some ski instructing), there is absolutely no question that that advice you have been given is right.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Flaming hell, I’d be freezing in Canada with just salopettes and nowt else even if they were insulated! You must run warm.
I wear thermal leggings (got loads of different makes ranging from cheap to expensive and to be honest I can’t really tell the difference on my legs) whether it’s winter or spring simply because it makes wearing the ski pants more comfortable whether they are shell or insulated ones.
Sport Pursuit is full of bargains.
Personally I look for the big double pockets on the front of the jacket that you can access easily even if wearing a rucksack, they are great. Arm pit vents yes are a must.
I’ve been wearing shells for ages now as I use it all year round for mountaineering/hiking but I do have a very warm oversized insulated ski jacket I picked up with 50% off (a Milet one) reserved for Canadian skiing as it can be so cold there but I wear layers even with that!
For shell trousers full length zips on the outside are good. I look for the mountaineering stuff as it’s lightweight and works for everything.
Not at all bothered about light stuff getting dirty, better to be scruffy & comfortable.
I have never noticed cotton getting wet & staying wet all day but I guess that I hate the feeling of being hot, I take steps to cool down long before I get very sweaty
Looks like a step in the right direction. Does it have all the features you want? Ski pass pocket on forearm, powder skirt etc?
Not at all bothered about light stuff getting dirty, better to be scruffy & comfortable.
I have never noticed cotton getting wet & staying wet all day but I guess that I hate the feeling of being hot, I take steps to cool down long before I get very sweaty
Looks like a step in the right direction. Does it have all the features you want? Ski pass pocket on forearm, powder skirt etc?
That's half the problem, what I see in the shops is not what I want & ordering online & sending back is a bit of a faff but probably not such a faff as going to a shop in reality
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
When I mention arms & legs getting "clammy" I mean when I put stuff on in the morning, although I go to lengths to stay cool & not to get sweaty, my bare arms & legs against the lining of the jacket & salopettes still leave body grease behind that builds up to leave the linings feeling "clammy" less insulation in the outer wear and using changeable under layers as insulation is my thought.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
That's half the problem, what I see in the shops is not what I want & ordering online & sending back is a bit of a faff but probably not such a faff as going to a shop in reality
If you wait until next season, you can buy from TK Maxx. It has free delivery over around £80 and can be thrown back to any shop if not suitable.
This year, I picked up some Spyder Turret GTX shell trousers, in a light colour, with over 65% off.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 3-03-22 18:50; edited 1 time in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@tangowaggon, Ok. You clearly know best, and the combined wisdom about cotton and breathables is all nonsense. I am out.
When I mention arms & legs getting "clammy" I mean when I put stuff on in the morning, although I go to lengths to stay cool & not to get sweaty, my bare arms & legs against the lining of the jacket & salopettes still leave body grease behind that builds up to leave the linings feeling "clammy" less insulation in the outer wear and using changeable under layers as insulation is my thought.
IMO. You don't want body oils clogging up the breathable liner of your outer gear. This is where full length, light base layers come in. They won't leave you overheating and are much easier cleaned than the outer shells, which really need specialist washing detergent and eventually need the water-repellence revived.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
PaulO78 wrote:
Quote:
Register for Sport Pursuit
+1 - I have some 60% off Elevenate stuff from there that I'm pretty happy with. April/May will probably have some better offers than right now as this season's gear gets cleared out.
Just ordered my son an Elevenate jacket from there. Really good deals.
No cotton t-shirts. Always wear a base layer under salopettes too, then your legs don't stick to them and you can just wash out the base layer. Merino wool doesn't get smelly.
Shell jacket, if it ain't breathable you're going to sweat.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Unless it’s puking snow I find a flannel shirt over a skanky merino base layer does the trick most of the time
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@tangowaggon, Why not start with new baselayers that you can wash, then pick the top layers that provide the correct temperature for you.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Old Fartbag wrote:
tangowaggon wrote:
When I mention arms & legs getting "clammy" I mean when I put stuff on in the morning, although I go to lengths to stay cool & not to get sweaty, my bare arms & legs against the lining of the jacket & salopettes still leave body grease behind that builds up to leave the linings feeling "clammy" less insulation in the outer wear and using changeable under layers as insulation is my thought.
IMO. You don't want body oils clogging up the breathable liner of your outer gear. This is where full length, light base layers come in. They won't leave you overheating and are much easier cleaned than the outer shells, which really need specialist washing detergent and eventually need the water-repellence revived.
Yes, this is exactly what I am saying, I want to move away from wearing very little under an insulated outer layer to wearing an easily washable layer under an uninsulated outer, I was just after pointers to where to get the outer layer I describe.
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