Self-catering advice

A snowHead

I am off to Val Thorens next year (planning ahead!!) - there are 11 of us staying in a self-catered apartment (8 adults and 3 children). I have only ever stayed in fully catered chalets on previous trips so just trying to figure out the best way to cater. With 3 small-ish and probably tired children, eating out in the evening will probably not be the most enjoyable option but might do once. Generally prefer to get them fed a bit earlier and then they can chill out or go to bed whilst us grown ups enjoy dinner and glass or two!

We are flying so unable to bring much from the UK or stop in a supermarket before getting to Val Thorens so after some advice...
- are there ok supermarkets in resort? (appreciate they will be more expensive, but how much more??)
- any good tips and tricks for self catering?

Was thinking that we might split it so each couple (4 couples) does a night?

Has anyone one any online order with Sherpa before? Looks good but also looks like it is only in French! My french isnt too bad, but not sure it is up to online shopping details!!
Thanks

A snowHead

Big simple tray or tin bakes (tartiflette, lasagne, cottage pie, homemade baked beans, mac'n cheese), jacket potatoes and big pans of curry or chilli, all served with large bowls of salad, and plenty of bread and cheese. I would take any larder items you plan to use (salt, pepper, spices, herbs and stock cubes, though keep in mind that officially bovril cubes are a meat product). If one person is a far superior cook to everyone else, much better to put them in charge, and rest of adults and even the kids do their share but under supervision, but obviously that approach only works in a very close group.
It can all get more complicated if you throw in a vegan or two, but just keep it simple and give them boiled onions, bread and water every night Very Happy

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You may find the 'oven' is actually just a glorified microwave/grill. And it will take you a week to work out how to use it.

Bring a cheese grater. And cheese to grate.

My last place didn't have a kettle -- though it did have a fancy coffee machine (I got bored of boiling pans to make tea so started drinking filter coffee...)

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Also, my top tip for cooking in VT (having fallen foul of this myself) is to remember that you’re at quite a decent altitude and boiling point is lower. This means rice, pasta etc take much longer to cook than you’re used to at sea level.

(I made a risotto for an apartment full, it took *forever*).

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You don't say how your getting to resort - is it a package holiday (so transfer bus) or are you hiring a car at the airport and driving yourself up? If the second option, then there are large hypermarkets at Chambery and Albertville, and I'd stop at one of these. There are medium sized supermarkets in ValT, but they won't have a huge range of "unusual" stuff, and prices will be high. Then, two options....

Option 1 - Find out what the kids WILL eat. Nothing worse than having to do 3 or 4 meals each night because Kid1 won't eat tomatoes or cheese (except on Pizza), Kid2 claims to be veggie (but can't ween herself off chicken nuggets), and Kid3 won't eat pasta or rice (except Alphabetty Spagetti).

Option 2 - You cook the first night. Do a big pot of Chili con Carne. Chuck in twice the amount of Raw Chilies, Cayene Pepper, Chili Powder, Paprika, Black Pepper, Worcestershire Sauce (etc) that the recipe calls for (probably a good idea to take all these spices with you). Then double it again, just to be safe. You're trying to "blow the bl00dy doors off". You won't get asked to cook again. Twisted Evil

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@LeanneLlew, definitely take salt and pepper and a herb or two as @thecramps says, or you'll likely end up having to buy larger containers. Also, if the apt has a dishwasher, take a dozen tablets or you'll have to buy a larger box. If you have tea drinkers take teabags - ours are better and cheaper. But buy coffee locally - they're bound to have Carte noire or something decent. There might not be a teapot or kettle unless UK owned.

After all it is free

@LeanneLlew, echo the comments about take condiments etc with you.

Couple of baguettes and bags of salad with every meal will bulk all meals out. While going out may not work, there will be places which do takeout pizzas, rotissiere chickens, tartiflette etc

Can't speak for VT specifically but generally when you're looking at the larger resorts that get lots of English visitors restaurants will be opening for evening meals from 6/6:30, so throwing a cake/some fruit at the children will normally get them through to an early evening meal out.

As @pam w said there are lots of quick, simple meals that get you from the first hangry squabbling to food on the table with minimal time and fuss. First night we normally go with ready-made pizzas as you're never quite sure what time you might get there (though do take a roll of foil with you as we've arrived at more than 1 place to discover no oven trays). Then there's pasta carbonara (basically the time it takes to cook the pasta), hire a fondue set (start it on the hob and just transfer to table burner when serving to minimise time but basically 5min to bring some wine to the boil, then 5min to melt the cheese in). A little longer at 30-45min (and subject to oven dishes) you can do tins of Confit du Canard/potatoes/veg.

Resort supermarkets are certainly more expensive than the same ones in the valley but not much you can do about it. They are generally well stocked though, especially in bigger resorts. Remember to take some "bags for life" with descent handles with you - most apartments will actually have a supply but covers you in case yours doesn't, and no fun trying to trudge back through the snow with heavy plastic bags, their handles trying to turn in to razor wire and cut your hand off.

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@LeanneLlew,
For your rota, each cookgroup to do evening meal, breakfast (and, if appropriate, the butties for the on mountain picnic).

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

There's really no need to stick to "on the table in 5 minutes" offerings. One of the couples in our Les Gets chalet did a slow-cooked beef thing that they slung together in the morning and left in a low oven all day. They were used to cooking on a boat, and clearing up as they went along. If you are eating after the kids are fed and out of the way (a good idea) there's loads of time after skiing to cook and it can be a thoroughly sociable occasion, suitably "arrosé". Don't forget what @Mistress Twerkle says. Things like eggs, potatoes, pasta, cooked in water take a lot longer. And if you make cakes, you need less raising agent.

And do make sure you have a proper oven. Cooking for large numbers without one is a real challenge.

It's a quaint idea that you need to take "cheese to grate" to France. Apart from anything else, it's now illegal. Beaufort (or other inferior gruyeres....) grate beautifully.

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Take a good sharp knife though....

You know it makes sense.

You could be clever with mince and run it 2 or 3 ways - cook up a massive batch to a 'basic' standard, and then split into 2 or 3 evening portions which you 'add' to resulting in either bolognaise, chilli, cottage pie or lasagne. You might not want mince every night so maybe do this for 2 meals?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

We found that people quite enjoyed the challenge of thinking up just one evening meal and what condiments etc it made sense to take from the UK - we had 6 nights of varied, interesting, meals and went out for pizza on the last night.

It was instructive when "Madame" came to check us out on the last morning. We had made sure to leave some washing up liquid, toilet roll in the bathrooms, a few inches of brandy in a bottle, some ketchup etc etc. She hoovered up the whole lot and took it away in a big black plastic bag. Miserable old vache. In other places you can come across a whole lot of leftovers in various states of decay. There's no telling till you get there,

A snowHead

With a whole lot of you sharing, if there's an option to pay an extra "end of stay cleaning fee", I recommend you do that. I've done that - end of stay cleaning, that is, for friends with apartments in our complex in Les Saisies. The places were never left in a shocking state (it was mostly friends and relatives) but people forget things like the roof of the microwave, there's always fluff under the beds, the cutlery draw gets full of crumbs, sometimes it's such a hike to the bins that the last bag of rubbish gets left in the rush. That last morning, getting out to catch flight home, can be quite fraught and you don't want it to spoil your holiday.

Ensure you know exactly when linen is provided. French places by no means always provide bed linen and towels.

A snowHead

I think the key thing is to plan the children's meals, there needs to be something you can prepare fast to deal with the whinges from tiredness and hunger. You then have the time and flexibility to put together an adult meal.

You will find resort supermarkets tiny but not unreasonably expensive - like small village shops in the UK but usually with much wider ranges of things. And there will often be delicatessens which sell locally produced "ready meals", as well as cheese etc. Depending on what you find, for the kids as long as you sort out the first night (pasta with sauce from a jar) you may be able to make enough "adult" food that some can be put in the fridge to be re-heated for the kids the next night.

As commented above, you will need to be flexible depending on the facilities provided. Ready-made tartiflette is useless if your oven doesn't allow you to re-heat it properly in the necessary quantities. You may find yourself needing to stick with casserole-type dishes.

If, like me, you are fuelled on cups of tea then the advice of bringing lots of UK teabags is crucial. (As well as remaining chilled about the frustration of boiling water in a saucepan on the hob). There isn't much else you need to bring, the idea of salt and pepper is probably good but with 11 of you to feed you shouldn't have too much wastage from most other ingredients.

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Herbs, spices, pepper, salt, packet sauce mixes (if that's your thing, for things like chili, pasta bake), couple of decent knives, bottle opener/corkscrew

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

We have a nice 1 hour lunch every day so we care little about what we cook in the evening. But our daily lifestyle is like that also. Another option.

Definitely feed the children early and basic. They won’t die from an unbalanced diet for one week.

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Not sure I get all this "Feed the children then worry about the adults" talk. Twice the effort and I'd not feed children something I wasn't happy to eat myself/don't believe my friends are worth spending any more time cooking for than their children Smile

Good catch from @pam w on the bed linen but the 'pay extra for end of stay cleaning' raised a rye smile. Was a serices included as standard in my last apartment rental and provided by a "professional services company"... Well the bits of the flat you could see were generally clean, but pulling the bed out slightly from the wall to plug my phone charger in revealed; dust you couldn't see through, a red fibre washer (no idea on that one!), a used tissue, and a single disposable ear plug.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I think that's quite a classic English trait the old feed the kids then the adults - at home and away (unless eating out). I'd concur that, unless there are constraints such as size of cooking area/utensils/table then eat together earlier than usual, get kids to bed and chill out. Don't spend the night doing meal a then meal b or you'll just run out of time. Make life easy for yourselves!

After all it is free

@Mjit, It depends on the age and nature of the kids but little ones will generally be in bed, after a hard day's skiing before adults are going to want their evening meal. Even if their bedtime is a bit later, an early tea then watching a video would probably get their vote whereas a leisurely evening meal, taking your time and drinking lots of wine, is a high spot of the day for the adults. Some kids hate having to wait ages for the next course!

And yes, I probably cleaned the apartments better than a "professional services company" would have done. But the good thing from the point of view of the renter is an easier last morning.

Not sure if it's been mentioned but if you have a private transfer (8 of us in a minibus GVA to VT in 2 weeks) then the driver will probably be prepared to stop at a supermarket on the way.

We bring the herbs and spices for chilli and curry, we also have a carbonara one night.

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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

In our experience, the under 12s can get very grouchy very quickly. And several (likelihood squared with more parents) don’t like spicy and/or garlic and/or cooked greens and/or…

An extra 20 mins on pasta and a jar of pesto is well worth it for 4 hours of pleasant evening on holiday.

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@LeanneLlew, crikey, that's a big apartment (or maybe not). I would double check just what you have available to cook with.

Our previous rental apartments were fully sorted with mostly everything you would need including dishwashers. We did not supply raclette machines as they never lasted more than two uses Shocked

but pretty much all else.

Our current rental studios have tiny 2 ring hobs, a couple of pans, and microwaves. But frankly, they are designed for the sort of self catering than involves going downstairs to one of the many restaurants. Or just drinking through the hunger. Twisted Evil

French apartments tend towards the latter, in which case most advice above is or little value. But for 11 people, I would expect a reasonable kitchen!! In which case it's all good per the above wink

I would also add that most French supermarkets these days stock most "civilised" products, salt, pepper, spices, garlic, onions ... curry pastes, tortillas, fajita kits ...

You know it makes sense.

@LeanneLlew, you can also generally find supermarkets/butchers that you can pre-order rotisserie chickens from, along with different types of cooked items (yummy potatoes!!!!), if you fancy not cooking for a change.

i would also recommend taking items like salt/pepper/herbs and spices etc, they are extremely light and easy to carry in your luggage, but can be quite expensive in resort. i also take a bag of my favourite coffee granules, along with tea bags and drinking chocolate for the kids. it may also sound strange, but i have previously taken foil, bog and kitchen rolls with me.

i know there is a paradox in trying to save money whilst on a skiing holiday, but i would rather save a few quid on basics, so there is potentially more spends for beers on the mountain etc!!

obviously, all this depends on what the other holidaymakers attitude is, some might want to save as much money as possible, where others in the group might have a "money no object" attitude.

like others have advised with regards to the end of stay cleaning, it may be an idea to check what is expected from you, if you have not paid for additional cleaning.

i stayed in an apartment over christmas in Les Menuires, when i arrived it was spotless, and assumed that it has had an enhanced clean, due to the ongoing situation with covid at the time.
at the end of the week, i cleaned and tidied the flat at the end, as best i could with the cleaning equipment available.

i then received a message from the owner complaining about the condition of the flat, along with photos attached, and has since given me a poor review on VRBO.

he listed five issues, which were as follows.

blanket over duvet not replaced straight

coffee machine drip tray not in original position (hadn't used the thing all week!!!)

dish cloth hung over the tap to dry out

curtain on wardrobe not pulled closed

remnants of dust from the hoover body in the middle of the floor (in my opinion the only genuine complaint, but i had honestly not noticed it when i picked the hoover up and replaced in the cupboard)

but the one that took the biscuit in my view, was that i left half a case of unused bottles of beers on the balcony for the owner/next guests to use if they wish Puzzled

all rubbish and recycling had been removed and disposed of.

admittedly, after checking with my invoice, i had not paid an end of rental clean.
but as said above, due to the covid situation, i just assumed there would be enhanced clean during the 6 hours hours between the 10am check out for myself and the 4pm check in of the next guests!!!!!

fortunately for me, i had not been required to pay a deposit, as i am sure he would have withheld some of it.

in future, i will make sure there is an option to pay for a cleaning service, although i have always strived to leave the apartments clean and tidy (when i went on my first ski holiday 30 years ago with 3 other lads, to val thorens, the skiworld rep said she was shocked and complimented on how clean the apartment was), it will give me some extra peace of mind.

oh, and +1 for a decent bottle opener and corkscrew, with 8 adults for a week it will need to be of a commercial standard Toofy Grin

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@terrygasson, that sounds grim. It sounds as though you did everything which could reasonably have been expected of you. You've made a lot of good points, including different attitude to costs and expenses amongst the group. As @under a new name has hinted, either that's a very big apartment, or those concerned are going to have to be tolerant and positive about their week together. The chalet we rented in Les Gets had 5 double bedrooms en suite, and a couple of beds on a kind of mezzanine floor, which my (single) son and a young cousin shared. It had a very well equipped kitchen, with pots and pans adequate for cooking for 12, and a washing machine. I knew everybody (though they didn't all know each other) and was pretty sure they'd all get on OK. But there were adequate facilities. My mother had one of the double rooms to herself - she didn't ski, and had a disability, though we managed to get her up one of the lifts to see something of the ski area and have a lunch on top of the mountain. The lifties were terrific, getting her into the lift with her walking aid. I organised everybody - nobody was in any doubt as to the contribution they'd be expected to make. My Mum helped the two mezzanine lads with their meal, as they weren't very experienced, and she made cakes for us all every afternoon - like a chalet maid. It was a wonderful week, but it did take quite a bit of prior organisation. And, to be honest, the final mad dash into the French side of Gva airport and then through the baggage collection area, out the other side, and a desperately late check in for our easyJet flight home was one of the most panicky experiences I've had in an airport. Laughing

At one point I had to run flat out through a door marked "no exit" (expecting to be shot) and all the way to the check in desk, and scarcely able to speak, told the very sweet check in guy that everyone was on their way (41 minutes before take off). I did get more accustomed to the ins and outs of the French side of Gva after that......

Holidays like this, with friends sharing an apartment and combining their efforts to ensure everyone has a good time, and spends no more money than necessary, can be brilliant. A group of intelligent adults can feed themselves on really good food and drink excellent wine at supermarket prices, for a lot less than staying in a hotel. But it takes goodwill, good friends and somebody who's prepared to be a bit bossy!

A snowHead

@terrygasson,

A snowHead

When we did this, i used to take some of those Betty Crocker readymix cakes/cookies packets. All you need is to add oil/eggs/water, mix it up, and cook it while you do the washing up from breakfast... and hey presto, you have the freshly cooked cake/cookie/muffins to come back to in the afternoon after skiing.

As for a cooking rota... I can't cook (apart from the aforementioned packets), so I put myself on washing up duty for every meal and no-one complained at all!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@terrygasson, WTAF? crikey. As a landlord (obviously, slum type hahaha Happy

) you are in a massively better position to shout out on review how stupid that is.

We are generally delighted if guests strip the beds and beers on the balcony a big bonus.

If anyone's watching, Jenlain Brune particularly appreciated, thanks.

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With a big group, it is worth planning so you have a rough guide.
We share cooking responsibilities as big mixed group.

Decide if there is going to be a 'kitty'. Can be one big kitty or separate pots.
Kitty money can be used for shopping the essentials. Food. Drink.
Decide (if available) if you want a morning bakery delivery.

A rough meal plan can help.

Depending on what time you arrive in resort, you might want food with you for that 1st evening (as everyone else will be ordering pizza!)

Similar was asked not long ago - so meal ideas :-
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=4911123

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@terrygasson, sounds like an anal tw@t - I wouldn't stress it.

We are pretty thorough with our clean at the end of our trip, leaving it as we found it and have never had any complaints/issues.

We've never paid for cleaning but occasionally it's been included and not optional.

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I've never paid for cleaning - and it never usually includes emptying the bins/dishwasher, stripping the beds and cleaning the fridge! I take a pack of Wilko wipes (bathroom and kitchen) and run the hoover around. I never quite know whether a cleaner comes in anyway afterwards or whether the next tenants receive what I leave - but I do a good job and sometimes think better than when I arrived.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Usually you can hire linen and towels but we always take our own so beds are stripped as a matter of course.

IME "emptying the bins/dishwasher, stripping the beds and cleaning the fridge" are all a must and sometimes specifically stated.

After all it is free

Yes, that's why I've never paid for cleaning as you have to do a lot of things specified anyway

We have never had a "kitty" as such but with parties of people from different households we have a small notebook where every person enters their expenses for the day. It works best with a column for each person rather than a page. The total is added up at the end of the trip, divided by n and the money transferd from those who have not paid in excess to those who are owed money. The only problem may arise when my meal for the night is St. Jaques followed rabbit in cider (put in slow cooker in morning or pressure cooker later on) with vegtables.

Stuff that has been left in our apartment includes children's toys, charger cables and ladies walking boots (in good condition) the cleaners just gather them together and put them in a pile at the end of the season the pile is still there. Does anyone want a pair of size 40 ladies walking boots?

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The bit I hate cleaning is the shower screen, the mirrors and the glass table top. They always end up smeered. But that is a discussion for another forum.

Help!!

Self-catering advice

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