 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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BBC article here
I flew BA for the first time in almost twenty years a couple of weeks ago and suspect it will be at least that long before I do so again.
Their online system, even when "working", is pretty poor and seems to lead in circles when either seeking out information or trying to resolve an issue / change anything.
They are blatantly trading on their name and the presence of the official sounding "British" within it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just in…. British Airways has cancelled all short-haul flights from Heathrow Airport until midday on Saturday.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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All long-haul services at Heathrow and all flights at Gatwick and London City Airport are due to operate as planned, but customers may experience some delays, the company warned.
BA said it "anticipated further disruption during the day".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Or Putin?
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BBC News has just report this is NOT a cyber attack.
Therefore I guess it probably IS. Just 1 day after the U.K. banned the Russian airline - Areoflot - from entering the U.K.
Coincidence ??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Cyber Attack?
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If it's a cyber attack why just LHR?
Far more likely to be poor IT and the BA staff at LHR have been a drag on the airlines reputation for years.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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BA cancelled my flight on Tuesday, and the flight forums were saying that lots had been cancelled due to an IT problem (and people on the phone couldn't rebook me as the systems were down). Not sure why the press didn't pick it up then! Less likely a cyber attack on that basis.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
If it's a cyber attack why just LHR?
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I wondered that too - sounds more cock-up than conspiracy to me.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
If it's a cyber attack why just LHR?
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I wondered that too - sounds more cock-up than conspiracy to me. |
Hanlon’s Razor
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The cancellations are continuing this afternoon, but at least some short haul flights now operating. But a couple of GVA and Salzburg have disappeared. A fractious end to a weeks hol for some.
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Poster: A snowHead
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15:00 LHR to GVA just been cancelled.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I am at Geneva airport, thankfully flying Eazyjet... ok its delayed, but not cancelled, and I counted 6 cancelled BA flights on display
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I flew easyJet today to Geneva. Another member of our group flew eventually by BA who have agreed to pay for his taxi from Geneva to the resort.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| moosepig wrote: |
...Sadly what was once "the world's favourite airline" is now the carrier of last resort for many, myself included.
... when your entire business depends on IT, you outsource at your peril. ... |
I doubt it was ever the favourite of anyone who'd flown enough to have such a concept.
If you look at the IAG board:
https://www.iairgroup.com/en/investors-and-shareholders/corporate-governance/board-of-directors#emilio-saracho
Then only one of them lists "technology" at all, and it appears as 3rd of his 4 expertise areas.
If you look at the detail, his experience is not in technology.
Customers don't care what the root cause of stuff like this is, but it looks a lot like they're run by people
with insufficient expertise in their own business, which is obviously massively technology dependent.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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BA Flight to London for this morning cancelled overnight. No options offered, can’t rebook online - puts you in a infinite loop telling you to call a number which then tells you to go online, the number they give you to call (if you choose the I’m at the airport with a flight in next 3 hours and you’ve cancelled me option), says noone available, try again later. Every company has issues but the useless Information they provide just wasting your time in pointless online steps/calls when you’re stressed about the situation, feels like they’re just rubbing it in…. Is there still a BA gold card number? Can’t find one in the app despite logging in
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Google led me to this Head For Points page
Does +44 20 7949 3066 work?
Although they might not be open for another hour anyway 
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@BobinCH, 
Any other airlines operating the route you need (or close)
Would a person be within their rights to book an alternate route home and charge that cost to BA in these circumstances, including a taxi say from Gatwick to Heathrow if that was the route?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The main issue with any large company is ‘Outsourcing’. It doesn’t matter how it’s presented, tarted up, sold, rationalised etc, outsourcing is the result of poor management.
If a service/department, for example IT, is being run properly and the staff well paid, it is basically impossible long term for that service/department to be outsource to save money or improve the delivery. Even if it starts well, the managers change on both client/provider, and it all becomes about saving money, cutting budgets, and service levels.
I speak as someone with a 40 years in IT, having worked at IBM and on the client side, and on many occasions excellent outsourcing companies were replaced by the lowest bidder and a rush to the bottom of the barrel.
In terms of BA it seems like I’m one of the exceptions as I’ve flown hundreds of times with BA (weekly for 6 years on business), and never got screwed by the service, I haven’t flown in the last 2 years so I appreciate that everything has changed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
@BobinCH,
Any other airlines operating the route you need (or close)
Would a person be within their rights to book an alternate route home and charge that cost to BA in these circumstances, including a taxi say from Gatwick to Heathrow if that was the route? |
The Dnata desk at Geneva have done exactly that putting me on United via Washington rather than BA/AA via Heathrow.
So much for “don’t go to the airport until we have found you an alternative”
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
If a service/department, for example IT, is being run properly and the staff well paid, it is basically impossible long term for that service/department to be outsource to save money or improve the delivery
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That's what HMG discovered when they outsourced the probation service. Now brought back in house after countless failures.
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@BobinCH, good news!
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You know it makes sense.
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| PowderAdict wrote: |
The main issue with any large company is ‘Outsourcing’. It doesn’t matter how it’s presented, tarted up, sold, rationalised etc, outsourcing is the result of poor management.
If a service/department, for example IT, is being run properly and the staff well paid, it is basically impossible long term for that service/department to be outsource to save money or improve the delivery. Even if it starts well, the managers change on both client/provider, and it all becomes about saving money, cutting budgets, and service levels.
I speak as someone with a 40 years in IT, having worked at IBM and on the client side, and on many occasions excellent outsourcing companies were replaced by the lowest bidder and a rush to the bottom of the barrel.
In terms of BA it seems like I’m one of the exceptions as I’ve flown hundreds of times with BA (weekly for 6 years on business), and never got screwed by the service, I haven’t flown in the last 2 years so I appreciate that everything has changed. |
Also a (previously) frequent BA flyer. Usually it’s fine as with most airlines but the real test is when things go wrong. The app just takes you down dead ends - it’s a properly rubbish experience. And it was impossible to get anyone by phone, even as a Gold card holder. The people at the desk found alternative flights within a few seconds - so why can’t they automate and replicate that experience online?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@PowderAdict, spot on description of outsourcing.
Also there are several types of IT in play here... clearly an airline doesn't need a specialist department just for office IT, resetting forgotten passwords and setting up staff email accounts and the like. But the public facing IT (such as the Web provision) and the crucial operating functions such as ticketing, baggage handling etc are so business-critical that only a fool would farm those areas out to the lowest bidder, especially when a world class IT department was already in place.
Like you, I've never been stung personally by BA's propensity for falling on its face - but it appears in the news often enough to be a concern. I only fly BA now if there is no alternative, it's just not worth the risk. BobinCH's experience sounds all too typical I'm afraid.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@PowderAdict, spot on, 40 years or so in the same industry, it, service management etc. Outsourcing/rightsourcing etc are usually tricks by a new cio/ceo to make the books looks good. E.g. 'we've made 3rd 300 perm resources redundant due to a deal with a 3rd party, despite the 3rd party not being able to actually support the activities required. 3-4 years later new boss who in-sources the work as it 'gives them more control and flexability'.
A never ending cycle to make the books or the service look good.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Perhaps the single main failing yesterday, apart from the flakey IT systems, was the lack of any reasonably well tested business continuity plan.
They (BA) clearly had one but it was very apparent it hasn’t been stress tested as the resulting mayhem demonstrated as such. What you had was a couple of people at each door to departures attempting to intercept arrivals (by the way who typically arrive in the lift thereby blocking the areas immediately outside the doors) and tell them each personally if they were allowed in or not.
Queue hundreds of people at each door in a confused scrum to find out what the person at the front was saying. I ended up telling people arriving myself at the back what was going on to save the chaos.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
If a service/department, for example IT, is being run properly and the staff well paid, it is basically impossible long term for that service/department to be outsource to save money or improve the delivery
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That's what HMG discovered when they outsourced the probation service. Now brought back in house after countless failures. |
My BIL is no longer a BA employee, has been moved to an external organisation.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyone else struggling with online check in last night and this morning?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| philwig wrote: |
Customers don't care what the root cause of stuff like this is, but it looks a lot like they're run by people
with insufficient expertise in their own business, which is obviously massively technology dependent. |
What companies like BA, NatWest etc fail to realize is that in the 21st century they are an IT business with a fleet of airplanes / bank branches etc.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| davidof wrote: |
| philwig wrote: |
Customers don't care what the root cause of stuff like this is, but it looks a lot like they're run by people
with insufficient expertise in their own business, which is obviously massively technology dependent. |
What companies like BA, NatWest etc fail to realize is that in the 21st century they are an IT business with a fleet of airplanes / bank branches etc. |
I worked for one of the big 6 energy firms and tried to raise this exact point. They are effectively a large software house that happens to sell energy.
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| moosepig wrote: |
| But the public facing IT (such as the Web provision) and the crucial operating functions such as ticketing, baggage handling etc are so business-critical that only a fool would farm those areas out to the lowest bidder, especially when a world class IT department was already in place. |
Sadly it looks like there are one or two fools around.....
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You find in a lot of outsourcing deals the existing staff come as part of the package, along with all of the existing technical debt and years of under investment.
The actual contract price is usually not the cause of the problem. I doubt that BA handed over a world class IT system, more likely the system was on it's last legs so rather than sort it out they handed it to someone else.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| davidof wrote: |
| philwig wrote: |
Customers don't care what the root cause of stuff like this is, but it looks a lot like they're run by people
with insufficient expertise in their own business, which is obviously massively technology dependent. |
What companies like BA, NatWest etc fail to realize is that in the 21st century they are an IT business with a fleet of airplanes / bank branches etc. |
Unfortunately, I have to agree with everyone here.
The stupid thing is that BA knew its critical dependence upon IT in the 20th century. A CEO who saw IT as strategically important and a CTO / IT Director respected throughout the World.
The daft thing is 'back then' the dependence upon the fragile TPF o0perating system struck fear into most --- and BA is now enjoying the fruits of trying to change that and outsource to save money. ( Banks also used TPF for whoever mentioned Nat West, a 6-bit system with no check digits a I always understood it). Unfortunately it only took 1 poor CEO appointment to demolish BA. The Board does have to take a large chunk of the blame though through obsessing about "low-cost" models.
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So BA now cancelled my LHR GVA flight tomorrow morning and booked me onto one 8 hours later saying it was the first available. The AA staff said all the earlier flights are available so booked me one one 2h 25 later. My the time I told my colleague to do the same the AA customer service person said BA have now blocked all the flights, but there is definitely available. Why do they pi55 off their customers unnecessarily?
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FAQ
