Hi everyone, new here, and new to skiing in general. Struggling with ski boot sizing, can't seem to find the right information. I've already bought some ski boots, but am unclear if they're right and need to swap them.
-- a bit of background --
After going out with hired gear and everything going well, the next time I went out I borrowed some boots with the same(ish) model skis as the hired ones. This second time out was awful, couldn't seem to get any control and when I went to the hire shop they told me that the borrowed boots were both too big and too old ( so even bigger ). My feet are 27cm, the hire shop put me in 28/28.5 boots the first time and then the new boots that I've just bought are also 28/28.5, as recommended by the guy in the shop for a comfort fit. The original boots that I'd borrowed were 29/29.5, so at least my new ones theoretically are smaller.
So obviously I don't want a repeat of being out of control again, that was horrible. So I've been comparing the new boots with the old borrowed boots. So I've taken the liner out of both and tried the finger behind the heal trick, and there really isn't any difference between both boots (about 3 fingers behind both, maybe I'm doing the test wrong??)
Of course the liners are both different, the old boots feel very much like wearing slippers outside of the shell, whereas the new ones hug my feet a little better but I'm a bit worried that with a bit of skiing the new ones might end up being the same. They are quite wide.
So I guess what I'm asking, is, does the mondo measurement relate to the shell or the liner? It seems to be accepted by everyone from what I can work out that it's the shell size, but as the inside of the shell seems to be 4 or 5 cm longer than the size of my foot when the liner is removed then how can this be? Hop this message isn't too muddled and makes sense. Thanks in advance anyway.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 19-02-22 22:05; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Take the liner out, take your socks off, put your foot in the shell, toes very lightly touching the front. What’s the gap at the back ? How wide does the shell feel ?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi there and welcome.
Bootfitting is a Dark Art - and there aren't that many good ones about.
Which Boot fits your foot shape and its sizing should be completely down to the Fitter - with feedback from you.
The first thing to do is a shell check - Take the Liners out, put your feet in the shells, with your toes lightly against the top and see what space is behind your heel. It should be somewhere in the 15mm to 18mm range.
Edit. I see @orange got there before me.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 19-02-22 22:04; edited 2 times in total
The first thing to do is a shell check - Take the Liners out, put your feet in the shells, with your toes lightly against the top and see what space is behind your heel. It should be somewhere in the 1.5 to 1.8mm range.
Where did you buy the boots and where do you live?
Any decent ski boot shop should have fitted them correctly.
The mondo size is the shell size and will accommodate 2 sizes of boot liner.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@welshflyer, @Alastair Pink, Yes I do.
Just checking to see who is still sober.
Now corrected - in mm.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Ok, thanks. So I'm also guessing that the whole fingers behind the heal measurement is a very rough measurement, as I've no idea how you could possible get anything behind there and be sure.
But I'm starting to figure out that the mondopoint being the way to size everything with ease is pretty much nonsense then. Both the 28 boot and the 29 boot leave me with about 4 cm behind my heal, so at that rate, I've guessing a 27 (which I'd have assumed would work with my 27cm feet) will still at best leave me with 3 cms behind my heal. hmmmm. I'm obviously going for comfort here as I'm certainly no racer but I'm thinking that 3cms is the best I'm going to get. My wife has 26 boots, and there's no way my feet will get in them!
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You could measure your actual foot?
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I'm in Switzerland, by the way. My wife got hers fitted but she thinks hers are too wide, plus she paid quite a bit more for what are really just entry level skis. That's why I didn't bother with that route. The other boot fitters with the machine don't tend to have anything at the entry level so I had to go down the general sport shop route.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Once the liners of those "Comfy Boots" pack out with use - they can end up being less comfy than a correctly sized boot.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@sectionq, don't overthink the mondo size vs foot size thing - it's not exact. My feet measure 260 and 263 mm (if I recall correctly) but my boots are a 25/25.5; there's no way I fit properly in a 26.5 even though that's what my foot length suggests.
Different boots have different last widths, instep heights etc so whilst the length matters, it's not the only thing that does. Your wife's boots are likely the wrong shape for your feet.
A 3cm shell gap is still going to be too big, and your feet will move around (or you'll have to tighten the buckles excessively to compensate).
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Scarlet wrote:
You could measure your actual foot?
They're 27cm, but I'm trying to figure out how that relates to boot size or shell size. From what I can tell, it doesn't. Boot fitting being a 'dark art' as Old Fartbag puts it, sounds about right.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@sectionq, If the different size boots that you tried are also different make or models then you can't make any conclusions about which size would be correct.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
If you get to the point of getting different boots - ask on here for a recommendation.
A Bootfitter that's good, has often been doing it full time for 10 years or more.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I think I probably am overthinking mgrolf, I usually do. When you hire you just put on the boots and off you go without much thought, well, I guess you're only ever in them for a few days... hmmm.
Maybe I'll take them back and see if the 27s are better, the ones I've got are pretty wide too 106mm, so I'm guessing once they pack out a bit they'll be wider still. Also, I'm already on the last notch, so I can't even compensate with buckling it tighter when it packs out!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rjs wrote:
@sectionq, If the different size boots that you tried are also different make or models then you can't make any conclusions about which size would be correct.
Actually, the ones I bought, I only bought because I'd already tried the smaller ones (27) and thought that they were ok, then the shop guy measured my foot and then put me in the size up (28 ) of the same model and make. But of course I take your point. The ones I went for were the most comfy fit of all the other makes and models that I'd tried, both sizes.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
mgrolf wrote:
@sectionq, don't overthink the mondo size vs foot size thing - it's not exact. My feet measure 260 and 263 mm (if I recall correctly) but my boots are a 25/25.5; there's no way I fit properly in a 26.5 even though that's what my foot length suggests.
Different boots have different last widths, instep heights etc so whilst the length matters, it's not the only thing that does. Your wife's boots are likely the wrong shape for your feet.
A 3cm shell gap is still going to be too big, and your feet will move around (or you'll have to tighten the buckles excessively to compensate).
I'm exactly the same, feet measured 260-265mm boots are 25.0-25.5. I've found the boot last that was the problem for me. My feet were measured at 100mm but the 100mm boot last was too tight and I was cramping so the 102mm last was far better and still tight fitting.
@sectionq, If the different size boots that you tried are also different make or models then you can't make any conclusions about which size would be correct.
Actually, the ones I bought, I only bought because I'd already tried the smaller ones (27) and thought that they were ok, then the shop guy measured my foot and then put me in the size up (28 ) of the same model and make. But of course I take your point. The ones I went for were the most comfy fit of all the other makes and models that I'd tried, both sizes.
Not sure why he sized up. I thought the usual thing was to size down from your normal shoe's size and start from there.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Indeed, that would ring alarm bells for me if a boot fitter did that. Ski boots (for recreational skiing) are meant to be as snug as possible while remaining comfortable. Ideally you want to feel as snug as possible in the boot without any of the catches being done up and you should not be relying on the catches being closed to stop you moving around.
with 3cm of space behind your heel unless there is something else really funky going on they are too big, would love to know the shops reason for going up in size, had you said 22-23mm then you might have got away with it as a size down would have been 12-13mm which for a recreational skier is generally a little intolerable.
length is just a part of the equation, you need to add width, instep height, volume, and a whole heap of other stuff to get the whole picture
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Ok, so I swapped the boots for the size down. Hope they're ok, they're entry level boots so there isn't much scope for modifications if they need it.
When the liner is out and my foot is inside it, my foot is always touching and it's very snug now, not confortable at all like the other. If I wiggle my toes I can feel my toe pushing through from the outside. With the other size, my foot had plenty of room and didn't touch at all. Should the liner feel this tight when it's not inside the shell? My big toe still feels uncomfortable hours after I've taken them off. My toe is always touching even when my heal is right back in the pocket.
After all it is free
After all it is free
sectionq wrote:
Ok, so I swapped the boots for the size down. Hope they're ok, they're entry level boots so there isn't much scope for modifications if they need it.
When the liner is out and my foot is inside it, my foot is always touching and it's very snug now, not confortable at all like the other. If I wiggle my toes I can feel my toe pushing through from the outside. With the other size, my foot had plenty of room and didn't touch at all. Should the liner feel this tight when it's not inside the shell? My big toe still feels uncomfortable hours after I've taken them off. My toe is always touching even when my heal is right back in the pocket.
Roughly speaking, the toes should be brushing the front of the boots when you're standing up normally and not touching them when you're in the proper ski stand. The liner should fit snugly, like an outer sock.
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@sectionq, …even when you go to a skilled boot fitter you can wind up with something which is not entirely right. So many things to take into account I am afraid.
Different manufacturers have very different lasts - I get along with the new high volume Lange shells, and do not get along with the current range of Salomon piste boots. I get along with FullTilt Evo shells and am pretty upset that K2 is messing with the model line. I have 26cm feet but some boots which should be right are just way too tight over the top of my foot, which is a big problem. So from this you can see that there’s a lot of juggling to do….
Now…in your case…
Note that the width of a boot can change the length of your foot…an over-narrow boot can result in toes being squashed, making the foot longer - in a bad way - and when the shell is blown sideways, the length is suddenly OK.
A shell check, as people have said, is vital. You can do it with a few straight sticks from the garden…1cm, 1.5cm, 2cm…just put your foot in the shell with the toes brushing the front, then the stick will go down behind your heel and tell you whether the boot is vaguely the right length. 2cm really is a maximum.
This is only a starting point though.
My Grom has exactly the same length feet as me, yet they are incredibly wide, and he needs completely different boots to me…much higher volume. So…FullTilt and Lange in 26 for me, Atomic in 26 for him.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 23-02-22 23:34; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
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Thanks everyone for your help. I think we're there now.
The important thing to realise is that boot-fitting is in many ways a two way process. Yes the boot fitter needs to know their stuff and how your feet will work with the stock of boots they have. But they also need feedback on how the boot feels on your feet.
Listening to the podcast above there are lots of points I wish I had known about when I bought my first pair of boots. Things I should have asked or mentioned to the fitter. I highly recommend giving it a listen.
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Poster: A snowHead
