Really want to go skiing but extremely vulnerable

A snowHead

@gendal, welcome to snowheads and thanks for posting. Your report ties in with another I received from a friend in Facebook. I am still hanging on - but I think it increasingly unlikely I shall go skiing this year. Again. Sad

A snowHead

Thanks @achilles! I've been here for some time, just never had anything worth saying until now Smile

I know everybody's risk tolerance varies and, for some, health considerations mean that a personal 'zero unnecessary risk of infection' strategy has to be the way to go. But I should say that, knowing what I know now, we wouldn't have cancelled the holiday or done anything differently when there. Indeed, it almost feels like we ended up with the perfect outcome. I know this is a bad case of survivorship bias, but we had a full week of amazing weather and fun skiing, didn't start to feel ill until the very end, and our negative in-resort LFTs give us (some) comfort we weren't infectious to anybody else until we got back and were isolating. Until quite recently, we'd have had to isolate upon return in any case, so the forced quarantine is no great hardship and if, as seems likely, we would probably catch Omicron at some point in any case, having it soon after we were boosted is perhaps no bad thing. I guess what I'm trying to say is: for those who genuinely can (or must) eliminate all unavoidable infection risks in perpetuity then going skiing (at least in the 3V) right now is probably not the world's best idea. But if one is already exposed to some risk day-to-day in any case and are already resigned to the belief you'll get it eventually, there are perhaps worse things than having the positive benefits of a trip followed immediately by isolating, knowing it's not long since being boosted and the present dominant variant is, for many (not all, admittedly) people, not a big deal. Through that lens, perhaps the biggest risk is catching it too early in the holiday and hence testing positive when there, which perhaps points towards a strategy of far greater caution in the first few days, easing off towards the end?

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@picnic64, perhaps consider flying from London City on the smaller planes, I’m doing that to Salzburg in March.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Here's what I would do if I wanted to minimise my risk (just on the way back from a package to Avoriaz which was definitely not a trip to go on if you were worried about covid!)

-Drive via Eurotunnel
-Book an Airbnb or self catering accommodation with a key safe/remote pickup and checkout
- *important* book only resorts where you can avoid telecabines and which are very quiet. This would include a lot of lesser known and quiet french resorts, small family resorts. Maybe praz sur arly, st jean d'aulps, praz sommand, chapelle d'abondance - that type of thing.
- order groceries delivery from super U or similar, or click and collect.
- only take chairlifts. Even if someone else gets on with you I think it's really unlikely you would catch covid, the air is constantly flowing back away from you.
- take lunch out with you.
- avoid the restaurants etc.
- take a ffp2 mask for anything like slopes on the toilets, lift queues etc.

I am pretty sure you could avoid catching covid with these conditions.

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But there won't be any quiet French resorts in the first week of March.

After all it is free

True, so I'd insert a point, I'm missing- don't go during the French school holidays.

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The chances of catching Covid in the last month or so has been much higher than it was, say, six months ago. The case numbers in France are historically high at the moment - there will be masses of "virus hosts" throughout the French Alps. Or up the road, anywhere in the UK, for that matter. The acquisition of "herd immunity" is not a linear process - most of us probably people who have had Covid before but who have caught Omicron. And in my neck of the southern English woods, everybody knows FAR more people with it now, than in the past, especially if they have any school kids in their acquaintances.

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To provide balance to other posts on people actually getting covid. Camme back from 5 days in Chamonix last week, and at least thus far have not caught covid. Full Easyjet flight out and back. Bus rides to the lifts 30mins or more each way on 4 of the days. Bus's.... as you can imagine, full. Gondola to the slopes each day, sometimes just me and my mate, sometimes with others.

Mask wearing at airport, on plane and 'mostly' on the bus and gondola's was good. It felt like people were being respectful.

Went out for dinner each night, and a few bars - no mask wearing in those venues and limited checking of Pass Sanitaire. Took in an Ice Hockey game one night and the packed bar during the interval felt like the most risky place i have been in 2 years. Jam packed with locals and visitors alike.

I am 50+, triple jabbed (booster in November).

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There is a difference between:
Catching Covid
Being hospitalised with Covid
Dying from Covid

It seems more likely these days that one will catch it but less likely that one will be hospitalised or die from it.

As above, go outside holidays, stay in a car and S/c accommodation, walk to the slopes, avoid enclosed lifts, and wear FFP up lifts if you wish.

Up to you. Hope you manage to get out this season Smile

Just to add to the points made about how well covid protocols are being enforced in different places. In the past 2-3 weeks I've skied in France (Tignes), Italy (Courmayeur and Pila) and Switzerland (Verbier). The approaches have been very different. In Tignes there are mask rules, but they are not clearly defined or enforced. In Italy, there are strict mask rules, which are well-enforced by the lifties, especially during busy periods, plus the general skiing public generally also is pretty good at mask wearing - you have to wear FFP2 masks a lot of the time here, so most people have them, and wear them properly. Less so the foreign tourists. In Switzerland it's like Covid happened last year. There are mask rules, but they seem to be generally ignored (unlike last year when fellow cable car riders would tell you off if your mask slipped slightly). So I would say that is also a consideration. In order to feel safe, I think I'd head to a small Italian (or perhaps Spanish - similar mask discipline generally in Spain) resort which mostly caters for local skiers rather than foreign tourists. Good luck!

You know it makes sense.

Good thread and some inspiring stories. At the PreBb a week ago in Italy FFP2 mask compliance was high on lifts and elsewhere. If you're not wedded to les arcs and would risk flying the ski experience would be better IMHO

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@picnic64, my advice. Don't risk it. I've just got back from the PreBB/BB in Italy. Adherence to wearing masks was very high amongst all skiers and bar staff. We had to be fully vaccinated to go into shops, bars and onto ski lifts etc. But it didn't stop me catching it. I have had both jabs, plus the booster and had already had it back in May 2020, although I was assymptomatic. My room mate on the holiday is currently testing negative, even though we shared a room for two weeks, ate every meal together and drove back in the same car for nearly two hours, without wearing masks.

I guess I had become blase'. I thought - I'm fully jabbed and had it before (albeit assymptomatic). But now have a cough; which I really hope does not get any worse.

It's like playing Russian Roulette. As Clint Eastwood said. "Do you feel lucky". It's pretty scarey when you see the test shows you are positive. Luckily, my wife, who like you, is clinically critically vulnerable, moved in with my daughter just before I arrived home.

A snowHead

If I was immunocompromised or worried about catching covid then I would definitely be hesitant about flying. Our flight to Venice on Saturday had an Italian couple with a small child, probably only 3 or 4 years old, with a horrible cough and who the parents were dosing with calpol regularly.

I suspect it will have been covid. It didn’t really bother me as I’m quite relaxed about the whole thing, but if it’s a going to be a problem for you then you definitely wouldn’t want to be seated near them.

A snowHead

@picnic64, at the end of all that discussion I am really hoping that you will find a way of going skiing you are comfortable with and then report back on how brilliant it turned out. It sounds to me you could desparately do with getting back to things you enjoy away from the comfort zone of your own home.

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As background, there has been some research into transmissibility in standard 4-8 person gondolas and the larger 'jumbo' gondolas. The conclusion was that for the typical 10-12 minute ride, with people wearing masks, the smaller gondolas could be ventilated well enough to substantially minimise the risk of transmission i.e. you want all the windows open. The problems come with the much larger 'jumbo' gondolas which have pretty poor ventilation by comparison i.e. these are to be avoided.

So what we've done has been to simply not use any of the 'jumbos' in our ski area but take the risk with the smaller gondolas. and obviously, not eat out in the evening or lunchtime. That exclusion has denied us about 10% of the runs in the area but that's no big deal as far as we're concerned. We've also self-catered and absolutely not been to any bars or restaurants. In that way, we feel that subjectively, we're not taking any greater risks than if we were at home i.e. if we do contract Covid (or anything else) then it's just as likely that we'd have got it if we'd stayed at home (where we now go to shops, petrol stations, get the occasional train, see relatives etc.).

If you crunch the numbers, it seems to me that the riskiest thing to do is to spend 1-2 hours in an indoor bar or restaurant - With everything else coming a long way behind that in terms of risk, because mask-wearing minimises the transmissibility and the much shorter exposure time greatly reduces the risk further.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@NickyJ, my son, who now in his forties, used to hire a car with a bunch of uni student mates and drive to our place in Les Gets. Three of them would share the driving. We would find a selection of chains, sometimes they bought a set. I have no idea if it is possible now. I definitely would not have wanted to be a fly on the windscreen on those journeys.

After all it is free

Thanks, @Pamski, it was something i was considering when I switched my car to a pure electric with a not that good a range but meets vast majority of our needs. Glad it hear it at least was.

We hired a van to take a load of furniture down to our apartment in France. Was no problem - just explained what we wanted to local hire company, Wessex Van Hire. Unfortunately the door had had to be resprayed after a bash, and the builders were amused to see us emerge from a vehicle emblazoned with "SEX VAN HIRE". It was crammed to the roof with Ikea flat packs, and we only had 36 hours to put it all together and get back home for pre-Christmas family party, so there was no time or energy for any hanky panky....indeed very little sleep. They gave us a van with a big engine, which they said would be good on a long journey. I loved driving it - an excellent supportive commercial seat, high driving position with great visibility, flattish steering wheel. Far less tiring than an ordinary car. We had "sale or return" chains from Filarinskis in Havant and had to use them for the last mile or so, unfortunately.

Driving that distance isn't for everybody - perhaps having to dig vehicles out of snowdrifts and use chains, or sit in long traffic jams. Likewise, airports are too much of a challenge for others. There's simply no guaranteed-to-be-easy way of getting to a ski resort - especially with kids, but it's hard not to feel that some people just complain too much!

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I have just come back from the 3V (just before half term kicked off). My daughter is CEV and although she was not with me I am acutely aware of the Covid risks. Some comments on here effectively saying don’t worry about catching it are really not helpful - I am going to assume that catching it would be BAD for you. There is a lot of good advice on this thread too and I would just say, based on my experience:
1. Avoid gondolas - less than 50% of people were wearing any kind of mask and most seem to take them off as soon as they sit down on a lift/gondola. Stick to chair lifts - these felt much safer both on the lift and in the queue as it is easier to distance a bit when you have skis on your feet.
2. Position yourself on the side of lift queues and try to take a note of which way the wind is blowing. Being at the side of the queue at least means you have space on one side and you can kind of turn away from people a bit.
3. Position yourself to take the end seat on chairlifts for the same reason.
4. If you are in a small group be a bit pushy about not letting others get in a gondola with you (easier in small ones), telling others to put masks on, holding up the queues a tiny bit so as not to sit right beside someone without a mask. It doesn’t feel very British but I would prioritise your health over a little rudeness.
Really, I felt pretty safe as long as I wasn’t in a gondola or gondola queue. Obviously indoor restos are a no no. I ate outside whenever possible. I would echo what people have said about self catering etc but I hope you find the lift etiquette bit of this helpful. Best of luck.

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The decision to go out in the UK, or take a holiday is one we all view differently.
I took the decision to go skiing in mid January, I went to Italy the info I had before seemed to show that Italy had a better control with the triple jab, use of masks and green pass access required to enter buildings.
I chose a ski area that was mainly chairs to avoid being in enclosed spaces as much as possible.
I did stay in a hotel on a HB basis, as guests and staff had to be triple jabbed i felt it was as safe a reasonably possible.
Use and policing of masks was very good, I felt comfortable throughout the week.
Turin airport on the return was very busy, there’s a thread to it, but again masks were being worn throughout.
I’ve been home now for two weeks without any health issues, however I did get pinged two days after arriving home, which indicates someone else on the flight did test positive on their 2 day rtn test.

We also got pinged from our flight on Saturday (still testing negative) but tbh I expect there were other exposures during the trip because we went in gondolas/coach/busy restaurants etc. Although, if we were exposed to covid we never developed it during the week and we were not especially cautious.

I really think the only transport option which mitigates the risk of an exposure is to drive. Being fully vaccinated inc booster is no guarantee, even with a recent negative lft.

You know it makes sense.

well....until now we habe some ski trips (in total ca 20 days of skiing until now)
Almost all of them in High Season.
I tried to avoid Gondolas (althoug in Stubai was inevitable) and we choosed resorts with chairlifts etc

Finally i catched the virous from the children.

If a had a health issue, i really have no idea which could be my decission, but definitely i would do everything to stay away from big resorts, with gondolas etc

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Similar dilemma. Had my 4th jab yesterday, so thinking I will have the best immunity possible in a couple of weeks, when we intend to go. Going to drive to our own place. Aim to ski from approx 11-2 and avoid big gondalas. Eat out only on terraces. Good luck. It's not knowing that is the worry. If I am in the UK and get it, I will be offered one of the 3 treatment options, so will be doing all I can to avoid it.

A snowHead

A snowHead

That's disappointing to hear, @Chuckles3. I don't think I'll pass that information onto my friend with an immune problem (on steroids).....

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@Chuckles3, I was hoping it was all working by now. My wife who counts as clinically vulnerable (not sure whether it is the condition or the medication or both) got Covid the week before Christmas - as we all did here - which was the first week of this process. She was phoned by the hospital when her positive PCR came through with the aim of being given an antibody infusion. However there had been a huge delay in getting the PCR result that week, so when the hospital realised when the original lateral flow test and symptom was they realised they couldn't do the infusion within the time window but could supply her with the antiviral pills which they did.

But that was the first week of the new policy, so you could expect some confusion.

In practice my wife had got over the initial symptoms very quickly - she had had her booster about 8 weeks earlier so was well protected - but found being given helpful medication psychologically helpful given her concerts.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I’ve been Chamonix and Zinal this winter and , I think, struck a reasonable balance between caution and not letting it dictate the holiday. Only ate out a few times and all lunches were a packed lunch off piste. Avoided any busy bars

I think the flight is a risk especially now that testing isn’t mandated . Many people drink / eat their way through the flight so the mask wearing is patchy. We also had some big queues at Geneva airport. I know that requirement for testing being removed has pleased many, but personally I found it a reassurance knowing that others on the flight had recently tested negative

Don’t be shy in asking people to wear masks on Gondolas, I did it a few times in Chamonix.

As others have said pick your resort carefully. Adherence to mask wearing in Switzerland sounds better than France is now from the post above on the 3V.

Good luck! Hope if you go you have a safe and happy holiday

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@j b, @Chuckles3just spoke to a person I work with (not in UK). He's just finished his course on the the Pfizer COVID antiviral drug treatment. He was really happy and said for him it worked really well. Slight metal taste in the mouth, dealt with by eating and a rash for an hour only. So if the logistics can be worked out, I hope this is a positive step for all of us CEV in the UK. I am making a decision to go for it and mitigate risk as much as I can. Getting this kind of diagnosis mid global pandemic was a HUGE shock, esp with teenage children, so I want to see if I can start to try and create a new normal.

Help!!

Really want to go skiing but extremely vulnerable

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