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Electric Vehicle route to the alps

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
On using Ionity chargers. I also thought that was what I needed to do during the last road trip to Toulouse but when using Elli there are far more options that worked just as well.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
meanwhile I charged my car up overnight on the 30th Dec for around a fiver, pre-warmed it on NYE then drove my Mum home 90 miles in gales and rain that took 2 hours, had a brew and a sarnie, drove back, via Decathlon, no dramas, no bladder issues, just worked and could have fitted a fridge in Smile 27% battery left.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@andy from embsay,
I'll be honest, its mostly because I am sort of laughing because driving from the UK to the Alps is not really that far, and the roads are comparatively great in France. Yet it takes a whole thread to try and convince yourselves that it is something special because you are doing it in an EV. As I noted the Tesla app (or equivalent) will figure it all out for you anyway.
Physics/chemistry are the same in North America and Europe. You still have to charge (roughly) the same amount to go the same distance.
I'm contributing because I do the bigger distances to go skiing more often.
But heh, perhaps you can ask admin to add a feature to only allow posts that agree with you on a public forum?
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stuarth wrote:
@andy from embsay,
I'll be honest, its mostly because I am sort of laughing because driving from the UK to the Alps is not really that far, and the roads are comparatively great in France. Yet it takes a whole thread to try and convince yourselves that it is something special because you are doing it in an EV. As I noted the Tesla app (or equivalent) will figure it all out for you anyway.
Physics/chemistry are the same in North America and Europe. You still have to charge (roughly) the same amount to go the same distance. I'm contributing because I do the bigger distances to go skiing more often.
But heh, perhaps you can ask admin to add a feature to only allow posts that agree with you on a public forum?


I’m not convincing myself of anything, and nor is anyone else as far as I can see - I don’t currently drive to the alps (in anything) because in my specific circumstances it’s not practical (d’you see how it works?). And it’s nothing to do with agreeing or not - most people who’ve contributed to this thread have got something useful to add. I just don’t really understand the mentality of posting on the thread about driving an EV to the alps from the UK when you apparently have no relevant information or experience.
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stuarth wrote:
@andy from embsay,
I'll be honest, its mostly because I am sort of laughing because driving from the UK to the Alps is not really that far, and the roads are comparatively great in France. Yet it takes a whole thread to try and convince yourselves that it is something special because you are doing it in an EV. As I noted the Tesla app (or equivalent) will figure it all out for you anyway.
Physics/chemistry are the same in North America and Europe. You still have to charge (roughly) the same amount to go the same distance.
I'm contributing because I do the bigger distances to go skiing more often.
But heh, perhaps you can ask admin to add a feature to only allow posts that agree with you on a public forum?


To be fair, the idea of the thread, as far as I can see, is to give tips and experience of driving to the alps in an EV. It wasn't asking whether you'd be better off walking, or flying, or driving across Canada - though there is a sort of mindset that the moment someone says "EV" feel that they have to point out that EVs are the root of all evil and are responsible for harming puppies and kittens.
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andy from embsay wrote:
I just don’t really understand

Yes indeed.

The point is I'm trying to say, based on actual experience of driving long distances to go skiing quite often, so perhaps relevant do you think?, and as someone who has factored this directly into the thought process of buying an EV as a primary consideration, and is about to buy another ICE or hybrid not a full EV precisely for this reason, then just maybe it has some slight relevance?
Do you think Canada has nowhere to stop, no charging networks? Same issues different country. Canadian government probably spends way more on EV subsidies, battery factories, charging infrastructure, mineral extraction, etc...

I'm not saying it because I hate EVs, I'd quite like to have one too as I live and drive in a big city, I'm saying it because I think currently it would be harder work for the big ski trip, so if you have that diesel estate tucked away, if it was me I'd save some pain and take that instead. Simple as that.
You mention something that maybe an EV isnt yet ideal for and you get jumped on... I don't need anyone calling my opinion fraudulent or hating - feel free to ignore it.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 2-01-24 16:03; edited 1 time in total
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
stuarth wrote:
@andy from embsay,
I'll be honest, its mostly because I am sort of laughing because driving from the UK to the Alps is not really that far, and the roads are comparatively great in France. Yet it takes a whole thread to try and convince yourselves that it is something special because you are doing it in an EV. As I noted the Tesla app (or equivalent) will figure it all out for you anyway.
Physics/chemistry are the same in North America and Europe. You still have to charge (roughly) the same amount to go the same distance.
I'm contributing because I do the bigger distances to go skiing more often.
But heh, perhaps you can ask admin to add a feature to only allow posts that agree with you on a public forum?


How is driving more than half a day non-stop "not really that far"? For most normal people, most of the time, that's an epicly long journey. Even in North America, people don't randomly just go and do a 24 hour drive, whatever car you're in.

The point of the thread (which is long-lost by now) was to see how feasible driving to the Alps was from the UK in an EV. It wasn't whether you could drive an EV to the North Pole or round the Sahara (equally valid as the wilds of Canada). You can drive one on the moon though. They did it 50 years ago (equally daft as a comparison).

I think there's a lot of us who don't currently have an EV (for all the practical reasons you state) but are thinking maybe it's getting to the point where they're feasible. They've rapidly gone from being practical for 20% to 80% to now probably 99% of journeys for most people. That's why this thread is interesting.

Seeing the differing experiences of things like Tesla (fully integrated, longer range etc) vs cheaper alternatives (less integrated, less range, more problems but getting much much better) is what people are interested in.

A few people saying "It's completely impractical for me cos I've got to tow a 4 tonne trailer 4,000 miles through the Tundra without stopping once for fuel or to stretch my legs because I'M A MAN, GODDAMMIT" is frankly laughable.
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[quote="paulhinch"]
stuarth wrote:
@andy from embsay,

A few people saying "It's completely impractical for me cos I've got to tow a 4 tonne trailer 4,000 miles through the Tundra without stopping once for fuel or to stretch my legs because I'M A MAN, GODDAMMIT" is frankly laughable.


Will you be taking a fridge? Smile
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[quote="andy from embsay"]
paulhinch wrote:
stuarth wrote:
@andy from embsay,

A few people saying "It's completely impractical for me cos I've got to tow a 4 tonne trailer 4,000 miles through the Tundra without stopping once for fuel or to stretch my legs because I'M A MAN, GODDAMMIT" is frankly laughable.


Will you be taking a fridge? Smile


It's a big fridge full of cyclists....
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@paulhinch, Laughing
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Fast charging on the way down our little pootle to the alps (compared to real man Canadian journeys) was fine. But Morzine really needs to get up to speed. The two 22kw chargers by the palais du sport are constantly in use. And also blocked sometimes judging by how long one French Skoda was there yesterday (hmmm French charger etiquette Having seen some. Of the lift queue behaviour could be questionable I suspect).

I think there’s two more the other side of town but Chargemap shows them as busy/out of order so not been. I’ve resorted to granny charger due to the helpful landlady.

They need to get a bank of slow and a few rapid chargers put in a few locations really as loads of EVs around.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@paulhinch,
This is the problem. You are viewing it from your perspective, I am viewing it from mine.

Lets consider the less epic ski trips. Every week of the ski season (when not driving across BC/N.America which I will admit is a bit less frequent), I do a day trip to Whistler at least once which is about 250km round trip [edit]. When I tried to buy an EV several years ago, the Audi dealer suggested this might not be a good idea because with a roofbox and cold weather it might not make the round trip. There are chargers in Whistler, but not a whole lot of fast ones and many (sensibly) have time restrictions which are much less than a ski day (not quite so ideal as there would be nowhere to park if you came down in the middle of the day to move it).
Pretty sure that EVs have moved on, and there are a load of Tesla superchargers in Squamish for when everyone gets that figured out, so not the end of the world, but really at the end of the ski day I don't want to be stopping in Squamish

For the longer ski trips, with an extended range vehicle I might expect to get about 4 or 5 hours into an 8 to 10 hour trip. Fortunately there tends to be big towns/cities in at least that frequency wherever I have to go (I'm not trying to drive to the north pole, though guess I could! Madeye-Smiley ). Say its an F150 with a 131KWh battery, on a 150KWh charger I'm going to be parked up for about 45 minutes to an hour. I would want to stop, but probably not for that long in Kelowna or Kamloops! wink
Then when I get to Golden or Rossland, or ... I have to find somewhere to charge it quickly enough to get back again a few days later.
I appreciate that this is not the same as driving to the Alps, and this thread also includes geography specific things like roads that you wouldn't die on using autopilot, charging infrastructure, and specific places to stop, but other than that it has a lot of similarites - long distances, charging frequency and rates, cold weather, lots of gear, ...

So yes, it is cool that it can be done, and this thread is of interest to me because it has a lot of similar concerns to ones I have and will factor into my vehicle purchase even though it will never drive to the alps


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 2-01-24 16:30; edited 2 times in total
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@stuarth, we all get what you are saying, and I don't think any EV evangelist would disagree with you. Regular day trips of 500km currently aren't the sweet spot of EVs.
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You know it makes sense.
MHskier wrote:
Fast charging on the way down our little pootle to the alps (compared to real man Canadian journeys) was fine. But Morzine really needs to get up to speed. The two 22kw chargers by the palais du sport are constantly in use. And also blocked sometimes judging by how long one French Skoda was there yesterday (hmmm French charger etiquette Having seen some. Of the lift queue behaviour could be questionable I suspect).

I think there’s two more the other side of town but Chargemap shows them as busy/out of order so not been. I’ve resorted to granny charger due to the helpful landlady.

They need to get a bank of slow and a few rapid chargers put in a few locations really as loads of EVs around.


There’s two by the public loos near the outdoor ice rink which is a ballache to access now because of the building work. I can’t remember what speed they were (we have our own charger now for the EVs we hire), but my mate who drives down in his Etron charges at Ionity Bonneville on the way down and doesn’t charge in town - as you say there’ll be more EVs around, especially as Morzine is a popular weekend spot for Geneva residents (there’s a family in our building from Geneva with a Tesla and they have been known to beg a few electrons from us) and the car hire places are doing EVs now.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@kitenski, interesting that people asking about travelling to the alps by train don’t seem to get people popping up and going “YES, BUT HOW WILL I GET TO XXX RESORT IN ARGENTINA BY TRAIN??? THERE ISN’T EVEN A RAILWAY STATION!!!!”, but when it comes to cars (and bikes/fridges) then there’s always people to helpfully point out that it wouldn’t work in their circumstances. In fact it only seems to be EVs that attract this level of whataboutery - as I said I don’t drive to the alps any more because I live 4hrs+ from the tunnel and tend to only go for long weekends, but I don’t feel I have to tell people that every time anyone mentions driving to ski (well, I just have, I s’pose…).
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
stuarth wrote:
@paulhinch,
This is the problem. You are viewing it from your perspective, I am viewing it from mine.

Lets consider the less epic ski trips. Every week of the ski season (when not driving across BC/N.America which I will admit is a bit less frequent), I do a day trip to Whistler at least once which is about 250km round trip [edit]. When I tried to buy an EV several years ago, the Audi dealer suggested this might not be a good idea because with a roofbox and cold weather it might not make the round trip. There are chargers in Whistler, but not a whole lot of fast ones and many (sensibly) have time restrictions which are much less than a ski day (not quite so ideal as there would be nowhere to park if you came down in the middle of the day to move it).
Pretty sure that EVs have moved on, and there are a load of Tesla superchargers in Squamish for when everyone gets that figured out, so not the end of the world, but really at the end of the ski day I don't want to be stopping in Squamish

For the longer ski trips, with an extended range vehicle I might expect to get about 4 or 5 hours into an 8 to 10 hour trip. Fortunately there tends to be big towns/cities in at least that frequency wherever I have to go (I'm not trying to drive to the north pole, though guess I could! Madeye-Smiley ). Say its an F150 with a 131KWh battery, on a 150KWh charger I'm going to be parked up for about 45 minutes to an hour. I would want to stop, but probably not for that long in Kelowna or Kamloops! wink
Then when I get to Golden or Rossland, or ... I have to find somewhere to charge it quickly enough to get back again a few days later.
I appreciate that this is not the same as driving to the Alps, and this thread also includes geography specific things like roads that you wouldn't die on using autopilot, charging infrastructure, and specific places to stop, but other than that it has a lot of similarites - long distances, charging frequency and rates, cold weather, lots of gear, ...

So yes, it is cool that it can be done, and this thread is of interest to me because it has a lot of similar concerns to ones I have and will factor into my vehicle purchase even though it will never drive to the alps


So....regular round trip of 250km.....very easily doable with a Tesla Y based without a charge based on what I've read here (assuming it's not 250km each way then you'd be pushing it and would need at least a quick stop somewhere to get some juice in). Yep, probably not true a few years ago (hence why this thread is interesting).

Longer journeys.....from everything I've read (on here and elsewhere) the aim with EVs shouldn't be to do 5 hours then sit for an hour (the charging curve would mean you'd never max a 130KWh battery in an hour from 150KW charger). More likely you'd want to run it at lower charge and be charging for half an hour and get three hours worth of miles on it...then stop again. Appreciate that'll be more time than 5 hours driving then 5 minutes for Diesel or Petrol.....we're a long way from that being an EV reality though.

I don't see how EV trucks are a sensible idea generally if I'm honest though. If you actually need a truck (rather than buying it as a lifestyle toy) then EVs (however big the battery) will be knackered by the aerodynamics, weight etc etc. EV Trucks with the current tech seem to be lose, lose, lose to me....with the minor exception being they have massive torque if you were using one and didn't need range at all.

So....if you actually need a truck....no brainer.

If you don't, feels like the current "best" EVs (Model Y for balance of range, performance and gear lugging capacity) can do pretty much anything a normal car can do.....with a few compromises in terms of journey times on REALLY long journeys.
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@andy from embsay, yeah I think half (most) of the issue is the huge anti EV publicity in the press which when you dig into it is fuelled (sic) by the petrol companies... I've had relatives repeating stuff they've read in the daily fail about the "huge" servicing costs and what will I do when the battery "runs out" in a few years..... I've given up explaining!
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Quick check on A Better Route Planner.....

Vancouver to Whistler - Return....

Model Y Long Range leaving on 100% charge

Get to Whistler with 58% range.
Get back to Vancouver with 27% range.

Feels like that's WELL within a doable journey without worrying much about range.
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@paulhinch, what temps did you put in for the journey?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@kitenski - I just used the Web Planner rather than the app so didn't get the option (that I could see) to put in temps....it was leaving at 5:30pm today though....
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250km round trip - you'd do that in our Renault Zoe, even in winter. 500 mile round trip (if I visit my Mum in Yorkshire) needs one stop en route and it takes about 30 minutes. Would stop once anyway for a coffee so that's 15 minutes extra. It is getting better all the time - lots of Gridserve gone in recently. Appreciate that is off topic.

On topic I won't be taking it to the Alps. I could, but it won't fit 4 sets of skis inside, isn't AWD and I don't have any winter tyres on it. Filthy diesel estate will have to suffice.
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Even with knocking off some due to the cold, with less than a 10 minute stop you would be putting more than enough in to complete the journey so easily possible to do Vancouver to Whistler. Would you want to, depends on your lifestyle on how else you use your cars. If its something you do a lot during the winter I can see why it would not but that scenario it very very different to UK people driving to the alps. Thats not something you do each weekend (or fly... well unless you have your private jet / helicopter Laughing )

Once thing I have noticed is that the Model Y is much better for handling cold temps than our MG4 which suffers much more. I presume this is due to the heat management on the battery.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@paulhinch,

Does the app also take into accounts roof boxes - that would be handy to factor in as Audi guy also said that would impact range? It was a few years back and things have improved since then. I think a Tesla was good for range when I looked, but not for some other things. Could get a cybertruck, but my son saw one in the flesh around our way and says they are a bit odd and ridiculously big. Madeye-Smiley

Again off topic...
A friend of mine does have an F150 lightning, and it is very nice. Very smooth, and remarkably quick considering the weight
I do haul a lot of stuff (though not often tow), and do drive places where a bit of ground clearance is useful.
Mostly the truck is not that inefficient on long journeys, but it is terrible round town. Since I can't afford to have an EV for just around town, what would be ideal would be a plug-in hybrid so I can be fully electric around town. I think Ford's thinking was that for working trucks a lot of driving is to and from and on site so not necessarily long distances, and parked up a lot of the time so a fairly ideal EV use case. I guess the big battery version was to appeal to those with the need for a bit more range but it adds a lot of cost and weight.
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Not on the web version that I can see. If you're just going up for the weekend though (assuming you are if you're doing it every week) then how much gear are you taking?

The Model Y has a 40:20:40 rear seat so you can fold it down and stick 4 sets of skis through, with 4 adults. The boot space is, frankly, ridiculous (854 litres with the seats up).

If you were 5 up plus skis then yep, I get it that you're needing a roofbox and that's bound to damage the aero but, again, you're venturing into really niche territory (5 people who travel 250km every weekend). It probably means that for you, yep, the tech isn't quite there yet. In reality, it won't be until you're looking at a single driver, summer range of probably 450-500 miles (so a long way North of where you're at today). Maybe a Model S long-range might do it but they're crazy expensive.
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@paulhinch, I still do not understand Musk time, musk energy measurements, musk volume measurement:
You say model Y has 854 L of space with seats up. How come Skoda enyak with much lover rear space volume fits the same number of banana box (as per the famous Tesla Bjorn) in coupe disguise and 1 more in a regular SUV shape - 9 boxes for both Y and coupe Enyak and regular enyak SUV 10 banana boxes?

Is it Model Y Tardis? Any figures quoted next to a tesla should come with an “*”.
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mooney058 wrote:
@paulhinch, I still do not understand Musk time, musk energy measurements, musk volume measurement:
You say model Y has 854 L of space with seats up. How come Skoda enyak with much lover rear space volume fits the same number of banana box (as per the famous Tesla Bjorn) in coupe disguise and 1 more in a regular SUV shape - 9 boxes for both Y and coupe Enyak and regular enyak SUV 10 banana boxes?

Is it Model Y Tardis? Any figures quoted next to a tesla should come with an “*”.


Quite easy - it all comes down to the exact shape and how that object suits the the space, I would be pretty sure that the Y would have had a lot of empty spaces that could be used for other bags that are not rigid rectangles. i.e. there are two pockets down the sides that are huge but your never going to get a suitcase in them but can easily store loads of things like bottles, jackets etc etc.
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The model Y's frunk is huge. Mine was full with X bottles of wine on the way back.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
On a separate note, the public ultra rapid charging infrastructure in France is much much better compared to the UK's. Not just tesla supercharger, but also many other options all at competitive price. In fact the 150kw charger in LeShuttle Calais was cheaper than the adjacent supercharger (41c Vs 44c at peak time).
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I’ve just recommended this topic to another forum I’m on and am beginning to regret it. The idea was to point EV owners to a useful source of actual experience from journeys in an EV down to the Alps.

I can’t really understand why people think it’s relevant to in effect say “Don’t do it.” just because in their very specific combination of circumstances it doesn’t seem viable for them.

The only negative feedback that’s perhaps useful is from someone who has actually done it in an EV, but wouldn’t do it again. Or who would do it differently next time. In which case it would be good to know what issues they had and whether these were addressable or not. Having done the drive in a petrol or diesel car, however often, is irrelevant to the subject in question - which is practical advice from actual experience of EV journeys to the Alps.
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EV owners must be very flaky if they can't cope with reading other points of view!! So defensive and emotional, using words like "haters". Laughing As for charters, it's hardly surprising the French infrastructure is better. ALL French infrastructure is better!
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@pam w, The point is, most of the 'haters' don't even get the facts anywhere near right. It doesn't worry me what folks drive. I drive an ICE Volvo, but I don't go round saying EVs are useless because :

The batteries only last 8 yrs (crap, LFP is good for 500k+ miles)
They're always catching fire (about 50x less likely than an ICE)
They weigh so much more than ICE cars (my Volvo weighs 500Kg more then the Mrs MG5 EV)
Think of the poor Chinese children (there is no cobalt in most modern batteries, but it is used in the petrol refining process) - and most of it is mined in the DR Congo anyway!!
etc etc.

Often spouted by someone who thinks he's a man cos he drives a V8 with a rifle on the back seat Very Happy

I genuinely don't know why they're so anti-EV.

Not sure what you mean by flaky either - unless you mean my skiing Very Happy
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
alvinsu wrote:
Just finished my first ev trip from SW London to Tignes and back in a model Y. The super charger network, hotel destination charger (in tignes), and the autopilot on the smooth french motorway has made this trip much more relaxing than my previous one in a Lexus SUV.

The autopilot especially worked fantastically well in french autoroutes.

Overall electricity cost is about 40% of equivalent petrol.


I'm contemplating a model Y...
How long did it take you door to door?
We just drove back form Les Contamines. Left at 4:30am, back in Marlow, Bucks 3pm (having benefitted by the hour difference). So 11:30 including refuelling vehicle and two drivers Smile
To be honest cruise control, lane assist, front assist, 4WD, winter tyres and a huge range on the 2l diesel makes our humble 2015 skoda a pretty relaxing and reassuring way of doing the journey. I find it hard to believe an EV would be better. But of course we don't own a car just for driving to the Alps!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@jedster, read back a bit (actually might be a few pages due to all the cack ) but rob did a detailed report of his drive to les arcs
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Anyone seen much about the Fisker ev's? Popped up as a sponsored ad on Facebook, and then I saw one at the Horbergbahn in Mayrhofen the other day. Nice vehicles with a good range.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Yep. From what Rob said, similar sort of journey I think it added maybe 90 minutes but he could have made that shorter if he'd not stopped to have a proper meal.

It's definitely not as quick as diesel with a decent engine in but it's still in the realms of a journey you can do in a day. I'd imagine you wouldn't notice the difference in 3pm or 4pm arrival home.
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The thing I find interesting about EVs is that the few people who I know have bought them were prepared to pay a lot more money than they would ever have done for a conventional ICE car.

Almost everyone I know who has one is someone who is very interested in technology but was definitely not in the traditional 'petrolhead' category. Prior to having an EV, they would always have some sensible but rather dull car, usually bought a couple of years old to minimise depreciation, basically the kind of person who would say that they just needed something to get them from A-B and had little interest in car conversations.

Yet now they are happy to pay 45-60k on a Tesla Y for example. This seems to be an amazing piece of marketing by the EV manufacturers to get people who previously had little interest in cars to pay out the kind of money that was previously only spent by people who would fit the traditional petrolhead description.

Is that true of the people on here as well ? Or would you always have been spending that kind of money on a traditional ICE car anyway ?
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@JohnS4, my first EV was £99 a month, cheaper than an ice car. My spending amount is similar to ice cars.
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kitenski wrote:
@JohnS4, my first EV was £99 a month, cheaper than an ice car. My spending amount is similar to ice cars.


Yeah if you are leasing I can see that the cost is reasonable, especially if it's done through some salary sacrifice scheme due the low BIK of EVs. One of the guys I know though paid £50k+ cash for a Tesla Y a short time ago which he never would have done on any conventional car. That's what made me wonder whether there are others here the same.

I'm neither a critic or a fan of EVs, each to their own choice, I'm just interested in whether it's attracting people to spend in ways that they would not have done previously.
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@andy from embsay, talking about taking a fridge with you. I assume you have read Round Ireland With A Fridge by Tony Hawks. It's very funny.

(Sorry to go off topic but it looks like most posts are)
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@JohnS4, I paid £8K more for a Tesla than I would have done for, IMO, a similarly specced Kia Sportage with a petrol engine. I’d actually ordered the Kia and was waiting the estimated 9 months for delivery when a Tesla dropped the price of the Model Y by £10K+ making it just about affordable. As the EV is much cheaper to run, over the lifetime of my ownership of it I reckon it will be a bit cheaper to own than the Kia, and for me the Tesla is a much more enjoyable car. The reduction in carbon footprint is a nice bonus, although that was never the main motivation for me.

I think if you keep an EV for a five or six years, which is my plan for this car, we’re already at broad price parity with ICE.
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