 Poster: A snowHead
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Was it not a hybrid?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| blahblahblah wrote: |
| Was it not a hybrid? |
No, I don’t think so. It was a pre-facelift Evoque, which didn’t have the option of a hybrid drivetrain.
Does anyone know why the driver of that car was arrested? That seems an odd thing and I’m not sure I’ve seen an explanation of why.
By coincidence, a relevant article on EV myths was published today by the Guardian.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm sure EVs are going to be part of a transition away from carbon, but right now they are an expensive option. Many older people just do short, local, trips with one or two people on board. A small, simple, cheap, EV would be ideal. But it has to be cheap. It's no good selling this to people like me on the basis of long term fuel cost savings. My petrol bill is not worth thinking about - and I have no idea what it is! My current car costs £20 a year road tax. I did drive to and from between the south coast of England, the Med coast of Italy and the Alps earlier this year - big fuel bill there for 2221 miles! But the huge toll bill would have been the same in an EV and I'd have to have carefully considered charging facilities. And a tiny car would have been tiring on such a long journey, though it was easy in my small Skoda. I certainly don't want two cars and I wouldn't dream of buying a new car of any kind. what is the situation with buying second hand EVs? How long do the batteries last? (This is an issue with second hand electric bikes).
There must be an overall economic/climate argument for reducing tolls for EV cars - though financially it obviously wouldn't work for the motorways.
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| pam w wrote: |
I what is the situation with buying second hand EVs? How long do the batteries last? (This is an issue with second hand electric bikes).
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Longer than almost any other part of the car (at least for the major manufacturers). Tesla publishes some of its data on this topic; 88% capacity after 200k miles is its average.
Additionally, a battery pack that's "worn out" and e.g. at 60% capacity, is still a valuable item (unlike a worn-out ICE power train) for domestic or off-grid energy storage.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
I'm sure EVs are going to be part of a transition away from carbon, but right now they are an expensive option. Many older people just do short, local, trips with one or two people on board. A small, simple, cheap, EV would be ideal. But it has to be cheap. It's no good selling this to people like me on the basis of long term fuel cost savings. I certainly don't want two cars and I wouldn't dream of buying a new car of any kind. what is the situation with buying second hand EVs? How long do the batteries last? (This is an issue with second hand electric bikes).
There must be an overall economic/climate argument for reducing tolls for EV cars - though financially it obviously wouldn't work for the motorways. |
I don't see how EVs can continue to be given all the incentives and advantages they are. I totally see why people who want new cars are choosing them on company car or salary sacrifice schemes because the BiK is ludicrously low i.e. it's a tax subsidy from everyone else who doesn't take an EV this way.
You hit on the real problem though lots of EV advocates have redundancy in another ICE or Hybrid vehicle in the household for different use cases whereas a) most single car households only want one car and b) lots of people are happy with running the car they've got until it becomes problematic at which point another secondhand car is usually acceptable. EV affordability in the secondhand market is probably the biggest single factor in how quickly a country electrifies.
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I've just been watching a YouTube of someone checking a couple of MG5's they use for business. 100k miles in 2 yrs. Brake pads virtually untouched, everything else fine. Battery health 94%. You'd probably lose that in efficiency in an ICE over 100k, and is the same as Tesla quote. The Mrs does about 5k/pa so it's not gonna be a problem 
It's looking like the current battery tech is good for 300k+
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Biggest problem with EVs is still cost (particularly if you're not a company buyer). I'm much less worried about range than I was a couple of years ago given charging speeds and range improvements (I'm quite happy to do 300 miles then stop for half an hour....the Alps is still a long day from Yorkshire either way).
It's the fact that to buy a new Tesla 3 Long Range is £50k before extras, a Polestar 2 Long Range is £50k before extras, a Polestar 3 if you like an SUV is more like £90k.
You're looking at a £10-15k premium on a similarly specced Petrol car (e.g. a BMW 320i is £40k, Volvo XC40 starts under £35k).....and that's before you get into comparing against any of the cheaper cars out there.
For EVs, unless you want to drive an MG or something with a tiny range then it's a REALLY expensive do....however good they are.
I'd love one but replacing a Volvo V60 with something similar specced would cost nearly as much as I paid for my house.
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@paulhinch, Yeah , I love my V60 too! But the MG5 is surprisingly good, especially for the money (21reg, 20k for £17k). I'm sure my next car will be an used EV - battery tech will be much better and prices will have dropped. And my T5 may be worth quite a bit to a petrolhead 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| You hit on the real problem though lots of EV advocates have redundancy in another ICE or Hybrid vehicle in the household for different use cases whereas |
I cannot (honestly) think of one reason I'd take my petrol car on any journey vs my EV.
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| LaForet wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
| Wasting 1hr to drive a tiny 160 miles -- on a 2000-mile return journey from the UK to the Alps -- sounds cr*p. Chop it in for a diesel. They can do 1000 miles on a single tank. Takes 5mins to fill. Gives more time on the slopes. |
Yes, but be careful where you park it, given the propensity of diesels to catch fire and take out every car in the vicinity, á là Luton Airport. 1500 cars written off because one diesel caught fire.
This is, of course, an unfair comment. And unrepresentative of the general body of diesel cars. Diesels aren't spontaneously combusting all over the country. Diesel cars are only 20-60 times more likely to catch fire than a battery electric vehicle (depending on which data source you use). And in any case the numbers involved are miniscule compared to the number of cars on the road.
Similarly, it's meaningless to say that you can't do a trip to the Alps in a BEV with a 'comfortable' range of 160 miles or so - like that of my Peugeot e208. It's entirely feasible but not the forté of that model. But then, I'd not drive to the Alps in a petrol or diesel 208 either. If I was to do it, I'd go in a car with a longer range, accepting I'd need to do a couple of half-hour charges en route to/from my overnight stop. |
Comparing a smaller pool of young premium EVs with a bigger pool of old cheap gasoline cars is like comparing apples with oranges.
Spending your vacation in a dodgy truckstop with a plug socket, wasting your life away for hours at a time, while diesel drivers are hitting up the Alps and clipping in their skis, is no holiday.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Spending your vacation in a dodgy truckstop with a plug socket, wasting your life away for hours at a time, while diesel drivers are hitting up the Alps and clipping in their skis, is no holiday. |
You don't do yourself any favours by using silly statements like "dodgy truckstop" - Not aware of any of the chargers being at dodgy truck stops - normally they are with other shops or a restaurant or services.
As for wasting hours - To drive from eurotunnel to Annecy which we did last year I'm predicted to take around 71 minutes charging. Sounds a lot... but for the same journey last year we stopped for around 65 minutes (3 different stops including lunch) so you're talking about a delta of 6 minutes! - I'm not sure thats really much to speak about across a 7 hour journey. Even if its a little wrong its still not the "hours"
No-one is claiming it will take exactly the same time as a diesel.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Rob_Quads, don't feed the troll.
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| blahblahblah wrote: |
| Was it not a hybrid? |
All the photographic evidence points to that way. Diesel is very difficult to ignition and if you do get it going, there'll be plumes of black smoke. More likely would be an electrical fire igniting various plastics but again black smoke. There was no black smoke in pictures of the initial fire. Instead there wasthe virtually smoke free flames shooting out sideways and downwards from where the batteries are on the hybrid models...
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You know it makes sense.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Comparing a smaller pool of young premium EVs with a bigger pool of old cheap gasoline cars is like comparing apples with oranges.
Spending your vacation in a dodgy truckstop |
Not sure I'd want to drive to the alps in an old, cheap car as I might end up waiting for recovery in that dodgy truckstop. But if that's all you can afford.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| LaForet wrote: |
| The fossil fuel companies have everything to lose and nothing to gain from the increasing adoption of electric vehicles.. |
They have lots to gain. We still burn oil in large quantities to produce electricity. Charging on a public charger works out a lot more expensive than putting in petrol or diesel.
Driving electric compared to combustion engine is not that much cheaper per mile & probably not worth while for the extra £10k-£15k an EV costs on the forecourt.
I will more than likely go back to a diesel before they are banned for good. Electric prices are not stable enough.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
Comparing a smaller pool of young premium EVs with a bigger pool of old cheap gasoline cars is like comparing apples with oranges.
Spending your vacation in a dodgy truckstop |
Not sure I'd want to drive to the alps in an old, cheap car as I might end up waiting for recovery in that dodgy truckstop. But if that's all you can afford..... |
Lots of diesels have done 100-200k. I doubt we will see an EV doing that kind of total mileage before the battery is knackered.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Gored, read my post above. You're talking cr@p.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| @Gored, read my post above. You're talking cr@p. |
I read your post.
Lots of people drive to the alps in old crap. My mate often takes his 20yr old T4 van. Biggest risk is not having winter fuel.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Gored, This one
| MorningGory wrote: |
I've just been watching a YouTube of someone checking a couple of MG5's they use for business. 100k miles in 2 yrs. Brake pads virtually untouched, everything else fine. Battery health 94%. You'd probably lose that in efficiency in an ICE over 100k, and is the same as Tesla quote. The Mrs does about 5k/pa so it's not gonna be a problem
It's looking like the current battery tech is good for 300k+ |
I can't believe the hate and bollox about EVs TBH.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Gored wrote: |
| I doubt we will see an EV doing that kind of total mileage before the battery is knackered. |
As usual, your grasp of reality is pretty tenuous.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| You hit on the real problem though lots of EV advocates have redundancy in another ICE or Hybrid vehicle in the household for different use cases whereas |
I cannot (honestly) think of one reason I'd take my petrol car on any journey vs my EV. |
Ah but you still have a petrol car then. Why?
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@Dave of the Marmottes, as I bought it years ago for two kids to pass a test in a manual and will be handed down at some point. Actually there is a use case for me when the Mrs takes the EV first!
EVs just don’t last do they 
The Tesla Model S P85, the oldest performance version, has the highest mileage record of 1,500,000 km (932,256 miles) as of January 6, 2022. The car is used in Germany by Hansjörg von Gemmingen - Hornberg, who is known in the EV world for setting the highest mileage records in Tesla cars
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| MorningGory wrote: |
@Gored, This one
| MorningGory wrote: |
I've just been watching a YouTube of someone checking a couple of MG5's they use for business. 100k miles in 2 yrs. Brake pads virtually untouched, everything else fine. Battery health 94%. You'd probably lose that in efficiency in an ICE over 100k, and is the same as Tesla quote. The Mrs does about 5k/pa so it's not gonna be a problem
It's looking like the current battery tech is good for 300k+ |
I can't believe the hate and bollox about EVs TBH. |
Is that post on a previous page?
Batteries can fail quite quickly in my experience. Once they start to reduce capacity, then it is quite rapid.
Will wait for real world data to see anyone doing 300k
I dont go far in my EV (longest trip one way has been about 70 miles!). Have noticed my work commute can rage from 13% to 17% depending on weather, traffic & my heavy foot.
I certainly wont drive an EV to the alps. I’d buy a knackered diesel instead. The tunnel crossing alone costs more than a flight, then theres the 20-30mins having to charge.
I can leave home at 7am & be in a chalet with a pizza & beer by 7pm local time if not a lot earlier!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@kitenski, yeah you kinda make my point. Even as an EV advocate, a tight adoptive yorkshireman hasn't seen fit to replace the cheap family ICE runabout. Long tail where more people find the capital cost to change too much.
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My 2016 Skoda Fabia does everything I want it to do, well. A slightly bigger, longer-legged car, might sometimes be nice but my 2200 mile Alps trip was no problem. It cruises happily at the speed limit. It carries a reasonable load of stuff to the tip (Estate model) and is quite economical for short local trips which make up the bulk of my motoring.
For now, I reckon that any EV to do all these jobs adequately will cost me far more per mile, so it's just not on my radar. The thing is, I am not "interested in cars" and I think the early take up of EVs has mostly been by people who ARE "interested in cars", and early adopters of new tech, and are prepared to spend money to feed that interest.
I wouldn't be surprised if this car, which is very low mileage, "sees me out". If it doesn't, I imagine my next car might be a smallish second-hand EV. We'll know far more about them by then......
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, we are actively looking for an EV to replace it or just live with one EV. The MG4 I believe can be had for £20k “nearly new” and from a quick search you can get Nissan Leafs for £3k upwards which would do most people for an about town runaround. Plug in overnight at a cheap rate and it’d cost very little to own and run.
But the biggest environmental impact is scrapping cars so makes more sense to run it as long as possible.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| adithorp wrote: |
| blahblahblah wrote: |
| Was it not a hybrid? |
All the photographic evidence points to that way. Diesel is very difficult to ignition and if you do get it going, there'll be plumes of black smoke. More likely would be an electrical fire igniting various plastics but again black smoke. There was no black smoke in pictures of the initial fire. Instead there wasthe virtually smoke free flames shooting out sideways and downwards from where the batteries are on the hybrid models... |
The fire service confirmed it was a diesel.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| kitenski wrote: |
@Dave of the Marmottes, we are actively looking for an EV to replace it or just live with one EV. The MG4 I believe can be had for £20k “nearly new” and from a quick search you can get Nissan Leafs for £3k upwards which would do most people for an about town runaround. Plug in overnight at a cheap rate and it’d cost very little to own and run.
But the biggest environmental impact is scrapping cars so makes more sense to run it as long as possible. |
There is an infinity scheme if you know anyone with a public sector ticket https://www.vicyoung.co.uk/offers/mg-affinity-programme/
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Poster: A snowHead
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What is weird about EV - I use 10% going 12 miles round trip to my parents (mostly motorways) & 30% average going 70 miles to work.
No idea why the short trip is so hard on running energy.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| paulhinch wrote: |
| You're looking at a £10-15k premium on a similarly specced Petrol car (e.g. a BMW 320i is £40k, Volvo XC40 starts under £35k).....and that's before you get into comparing against any of the cheaper cars out there. |
There's definitely a price premium over a broadly similar spec petrol car, although for me it was £8K when I bought a Tesla Model y compared to the similarly specced Kia Sportage I'd actually ordered but then cancelled when Tesla dropped their prices at the start of the year. I then spent £1K installing an EV charger at home, so for me the price premium was around £9K. I've just checked my charging stats and in the 9 months that I've owned the Tesla I've done just over 11,000 miles (a mix of city and motorway driving) and the Tesla app suggests I've saved £2,250 on what I would have spent on petrol for the same mileage in a similar ICE car. We're planning on keeping this car for at least five or six years, most likely longer, so I'm pretty sure that over the lifetime ownership it will be cheaper to own and run than the Kia Sportage we almost bought, especially when you take in to account the lack of scheduled service payments as the Model Y does not require regular servicing to maintain the warranty.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kitenski wrote: |
@Dave of the Marmottes, we are actively looking for an EV to replace it or just live with one EV. The MG4 I believe can be had for £20k “nearly new” and from a quick search you can get Nissan Leafs for £3k upwards which would do most people for an about town runaround. Plug in overnight at a cheap rate and it’d cost very little to own and run.
But the biggest environmental impact is scrapping cars so makes more sense to run it as long as possible. |
This.. we are looking for a cheap used EV for a city car to do our school runs which are just a tad too far to walk. I’d be happy with having to charge an older battery a few times a week. Have my eyes in a 3 year old Peugeot e-208. I detest having to fire up my diesel German motorway cruiser to do a 5 mile round trip in london traffic. We intend to run the 6yo estate diesel to then ground using it mainly for trips to tip, ikea and 4 times a year to Châtel and will eventually replace with a long distance cruiser. I did look at the EV equivalent for my car and it was more than £70k while my diesel was £40k when new.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
But the biggest environmental impact is scrapping cars so makes more sense to run it as long as possible.
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Absolutely, and this is what we need to remember. If people want to splash the cash on a TESLA, instead of a reliable 15 year old Volvo, that's their prerogative, provided they don't preach to me about saving the planet. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think car manufacturers need to work on designing parts to refit their own ICE cars with electic motors and batteries. There are plenty of TV programmes on doing this as one off custom jobs but it needs to be possible on a much larger scale to be able to switch to electric vehicles soon enough.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
| ... provided they don't preach to me about saving the planet. |
I'd agree with that, but I don't see much preaching going on here. A few attempts to correct myths and prejudices, but not much preaching.
EVs aren't right for everyone, and right now I'd caution against ownership for those people who don't have a dedicated parking space which they can install an EV charger for overnight charging at cheap rates. But I don't think there are any significant barriers to ownership for those who do have a place where they can charge their own car, certainly not for range anxiety, and I think we've probably reached price parity if you look at lifetime ownership and keep the car for a reasonable length of time.
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Yes, I wasn't thinking of anybody here, @rob@rar, but the promotion of electric cars can often appear to overlook the "scrappage" issue and I was pretty horrified by the scrappage scheme, some years ago.
I have a parking space where I could charge overnight, but I still suspect that buying an EV which would do all I need it to do makes financial sense for me yet.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Yes, I wasn't thinking of anybody here, @rob@rar, but the promotion of electric cars can often appear to overlook the "scrappage" issue and I was pretty horrified by the scrappage scheme, some years ago. |
Indeed, although that applies to all cars, not just EVs.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Ozboy We got an e208 GT as a replacement local(ish) car back in April. Built 11/23 but a dealer pre-reg with 10 miles on the clock. 19.6% discount on the factory price for the same config’. 4.1% premium on the petrol equivalent. Just bear in mind that cars previous to some time around 2021 don’t have the heat pump for cabin heating so their winter range reduces more than is the case with the more recent cars, which do have it. That’s why the Stellantis platform (same as the Citroën ë:C4 and Corsa e) got a reputation for more than average range drop- off in winter. It may not matter much if you have a home charge point and are doing local journeys, however. But worth checking with the dealer. Not many (any?) EVSE manufacturers implement the Peugeot API, unfortunately, which means the charge point cant interrogate the e208 for its state of charge (SoC). Slightly inconvenient but we’ve found it not to be a big deal - we just have to specify the charge to be added each time, rather than the ideal default ‘charge to 80%’. We have an Ohme Home Pro integrated with Intelligent Octopus, so pay 7.5p/kWh overnight (for all household power, not just the car) compared to the 31p day time rate. So obviously we do the dish washer and washing machine at night if possible. This also gets us day time dynamic slots on demand at the 7.5p rate but the EVSE has to be charging the car at the time if we want to use domestic appliances at the same rate. PM me if you want more info on our e208 experience (which has been very positive). Biggest take-away point so far is don’t go to a corporate energy or EVSE supplier for your home charge point: use a local electrician who will do a proper site survey and come up with options, not just what’s easiest and quickest to install. Second is that you can be mis-sold a BEV or HEV just as easily as mis-sold a petroleum car, so be just as critical about what the sales person is telling you.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 20-11-23 22:02; edited 5 times in total
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| Quote: |
I think car manufacturers need to work on designing parts to refit their own ICE cars with electic motors and batteries.
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Yes, that sounds right.
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FAQ
