Hi All, I have a question about the Jungfrau ski route down from Schilthorn back to Mürren. I'm a relatively inexperienced skier - happy on blues, can cope with reds, but never been on a black run. I'm looking at skiing down from Birg and although there are some blues and reds, it seems, according to the map, past the Skyline Snowpark you can't get down to Allmendhubel without using a black run (16). Is this right, and how is that run as far as blacks go, presumably not as bad as the 88% run higher up?! Should I give it a go? Thanks for any advice.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yes, you have to do a black run (16), it's classified black because of the section called the Kanonenrohr which is a steep narrow part. There's a video on YouTube of someone snowboarding it ( ignore the first 3 minutes of snowboard faffing). http://youtube.com/v/7312f2hkGIw
P.S welcome to snowHeads!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It can get quite chopped up in the afternoon as the sun affects it
One has to question why that snowboarder choose that route!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thanks Alastair and all. That video was good to watch, I think it will be hard but manageable for me to get down it. That's the trouble with being inexperienced and almost certainly having terrible technique - you end up putting loads more effort into braking than if you know what you're doing! But still preferable to going back up to Birg and paying to go down the Schilthornbahn gondola!
@s59c7, why would you have to pay to go down? on your lift pass surely?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
under a new name wrote:
@s59c7, why would you have to pay to go down? on your lift pass surely?
As I understand it the lift pass only covers going up the Schilthornbahn, going down is extra. From the ski pass tariff sheet: 1 The Sport Pass is only valid for the Mürren-Schilthorn upward journey (additional payment at Schilthorn Aerial Cableway ticket office).
That note only applies to the 1 and 2 day passes, but although we'll be there for longer we'll be mixing up which area passes we buy so probably will only have a 1-2 day pass at any one time.
After all it is free
After all it is free
It must be over twenty years since I skied this run and I remember there being some very large and daunting moguls at the beginning after which it was quite straightforward. I would describe myself probably as a strong intermediate at the time and was certainly used to doing black runs.
I wonder if they have engineered a different route at the top? The youtube video is not how I remember it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
One of the higher up bits has a warning about an 88% gradient! I'd need a parachute to go near something like that
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@s59c7,
How much extra would it cost to buy a"full" lift pass?
It might be worth buying simply to have the option of downloading on lifts.
I am a fairly experienced skier but I will happily download on lifts if I don't like the snow conditions or visibilty.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@richjp, you are thinking of the top run from the Schithorn. Which can be exciting on 210cm downhill skis
OP is asking about home run below Birg.
I know the lift co. has been criticised in recent years over certain not very ski policies so I can believe this.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
s59c7 wrote:
Hi All, I have a question about the Jungfrau ski route down from Schilthorn back to Mürren. I'm a relatively inexperienced skier - happy on blues, can cope with reds, but never been on a black run. I'm looking at skiing down from Birg and although there are some blues and reds, it seems, according to the map, past the Skyline Snowpark you can't get down to Allmendhubel without using a black run (16). Is this right, and how is that run as far as blacks go, presumably not as bad as the 88% run higher up?! Should I give it a go? Thanks for any advice.
I've been to Murren a couple of times with Mrs F and were lucky enough to be able to stay relatively low (remember doing multiple laps of the Winteregg chair) and board on superb snow without having the need to get higher than Schiltgrat. 16 is definitely on my list for our February trip. Looking at that video I would advise you to do that run in mid to late morning because : a) it shouldn't be too cut-up / bumpy, b) those narrow sections might be intimidating if you're trying to ski them at your own pace with more experienced skiers and boarders trying to whoosh past at the end of the day (we've all been there and it's not pleasant) ... the most important thing is to relax and not worry about it too much.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
s59c7 wrote:
Thanks Alastair and all. That video was good to watch, I think it will be hard but manageable for me to get down it. That's the trouble with being inexperienced and almost certainly having terrible technique - you end up putting loads more effort into braking than if you know what you're doing! But still preferable to going back up to Birg and paying to go down the Schilthornbahn gondola!
I think the restriction stated about not being valid for downloading only applies to the last section (Birg to Schilthorn) and even then is more honoured in the breach than in the observance. Certainly loads of skiers download from Birg to Murren with no problem, so if you don't feel up to doing the Kanonenrohr just download from Birg.
P.S How long are you there for? Rather than get 1 or 2 day passes for different areas I'd just get a Jungfrau region skipass for the duration of your stay, which covers Grindelwald, Wengen and Murren ski areas.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@welshflyer good point - maybe we'll just end up buying the all-Jungfrau pass if there's not a huge difference, I haven't worked it out yet and there doesn't seem to be a discount for buying early this year (factoring in a free child pass on Sat if we have a day pass too but not a multi-day, just to make life more complicated!)
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Alastair Pink, I think you and I skied that the last time I was staying in Wengen (OT comment the Falken is a delightful hotel). Ooo. More nostalgia. May have to go back.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Alastair Pink wrote:
I think the restriction stated about not being valid for downloading only applies to the last section (Birg to Schilthorn) and even then is more honoured in the breach than in the observance. Certainly loads of skiers download from Birg to Murren with no problem, so if you don't feel up to doing the Kanonenrohr just download from Birg.
Ah so the kanonenrohr is above Birg? We definitely won't be skiing down from Schilthorn, just from Birg down to Murren.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
s59c7 wrote:
Alastair Pink wrote:
I think the restriction stated about not being valid for downloading only applies to the last section (Birg to Schilthorn) and even then is more honoured in the breach than in the observance. Certainly loads of skiers download from Birg to Murren with no problem, so if you don't feel up to doing the Kanonenrohr just download from Birg.
Ah so the kanonenrohr is above Birg? We definitely won't be skiing down from Schilthorn, just from Birg down to Murren.
No, the Kanonenrohr is below Birg. Plenty of skiers just ski the blues and reds available from Birg, the Riggli chairlift takes you back up to Birg from where you download in the cablecar to Murren.
P.S Whilst you (probably wisely) don't want to ski down from the Schilthorn don't miss the opportunity to visit it with its 007 connections and revolving restaurant. Just leave your skis at Birg (plenty of ski racks there) and go up without them. I'd recommend getting a Jungfrau region skipass for the duration of your stay.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 17-01-22 13:20; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Thanks Alastair. We'll see how we get on and what the conditions are like before deciding what to do. Here's hoping for some decent snow next month - I read that the area tends to get more in Jan and March but not so much in Feb...
Looking at that video I would advise you to do that run in mid to late morning because : a) it shouldn't be too cut-up / bumpy, b) those narrow sections might be intimidating if you're trying to ski them at your own pace with more experienced skiers and boarders trying to whoosh past at the end of the day (we've all been there and it's not pleasant) ... the most important thing is to relax and not worry about it too much.
Thanks Franga, good advice.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
It is manageable but I’d echo others and say do it before it gets busy. As for the Schilthorn off the top is actually not too difficult. Yes it’s steep but the snow is nearly always in good order as so few people actually ski it. Again pick a quiet time and go for it. It’s a stunningly beautiful run and worth the challenge even if you’re mainly a blue run kind a guy.
It is manageable but I’d echo others and say do it before it gets busy. As for the Schilthorn off the top is actually not too difficult. Yes it’s steep but the snow is nearly always in good order as so few people actually ski it. Again pick a quiet time and go for it. It’s a stunningly beautiful run and worth the challenge even if you’re mainly a blue run kind a guy.
I don't think a mainly blue run kind a guy should be contemplating the Schilthorn. An ability to make good turns on a steep slope is required otherwise keep yourself and others safe
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Jill t, yep. It is pretty steep.
After all it is free
After all it is free
under a new name wrote:
@richjp, you are thinking of the top run from the Schithorn. Which can be exciting on 210cm downhill skis
OP is asking about home run below Birg.
I know the lift co. has been criticised in recent years over certain not very ski policies so I can believe this.
Thank you for explaining that. I did say I skied it a long time ago!
As others have said, it's worth going to the top for the view and the revolving restaurant, as long as the weather is clear.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
jirac18 wrote:
It is manageable but I’d echo others and say do it before it gets busy. As for the Schilthorn off the top is actually not too difficult. Yes it’s steep but the snow is nearly always in good order as so few people actually ski it. Again pick a quiet time and go for it. It’s a stunningly beautiful run and worth the challenge even if you’re mainly a blue run kind a guy.
It’s all about the conditions. I’ve done it once from the top, March 2009, late morning before they shut it early every day because of slush. I’m a decent intermediate & looking at the photos, can’t quite believe I had the bottle. Definitely a highlight of my otherwise rather sedate & relatively short skiing career
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
s59c7 wrote:
One of the higher up bits has a warning about an 88% gradient! I'd need a parachute to go near something like that
One with a Union Jack on it?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
s59c7 wrote:
One of the higher up bits has a warning about an 88% gradient! I'd need a parachute to go near something like that
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Jill t wrote:
jirac18 wrote:
It is manageable but I’d echo others and say do it before it gets busy. As for the Schilthorn off the top is actually not too difficult. Yes it’s steep but the snow is nearly always in good order as so few people actually ski it. Again pick a quiet time and go for it. It’s a stunningly beautiful run and worth the challenge even if you’re mainly a blue run kind a guy.
I don't think a mainly blue run kind a guy should be contemplating the Schilthorn. An ability to make good turns on a steep slope is required otherwise keep yourself and others safe
To be fair he said he can cope with red runs but mainly likes blues. The point being yes it’s steep but it’s also reasonably wide and usually in good condition. There are plenty of red classified runs way harder than that black. Do it when it’s quiet and in my opinion most skiers who are comfortable on a red can ski the Schilthorn safely. Just my opinion and of course the OP can make up his/her own mind. No shame in not doing it but if you can it’s well worth it is the point I was trying to make.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Alastair Pink wrote:
s59c7 wrote:
One of the higher up bits has a warning about an 88% gradient! I'd need a parachute to go near something like that
The slope from the Schilthorn summit is most definitely steep as ....
But very often also of excellent quality snow as the sun doesn't hit there. Which 'confuses' a lot of people in their judgement.
Sometimes they don't piste it... Love a good bump I do.
If you're not confident... Don't.
Don't get me wrong... This is still one of my favourite runs from anywhere I've skied... It's one I lap till closure... and then lap the Riggli for another half hour.
Between Riggli and the twisty narrow section is actually quite steep too. The other side of the 2 seater in view between 3 and 4 minutes in the video linked by Alastair is rated black for good reason.
The twisty section itself is not as steep, but it's no more than a single piste basher wide so gets scraped to bits.
Again: if you're not confident... Don't.
Get yourself some lessons and gain the confidence... The Schilthorn decent and Engital valley up there are worth it.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The secret with the black off the schilthorn is not to rush. The cable car arrives and everyone makes a bolt for the piste. Let them go and start your run just before the cable car comes back.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
countryman wrote:
The secret with the black off the schilthorn is not to rush. The cable car arrives and everyone makes a bolt for the piste. Let them go and start your run just before the cable car comes back.
That’s the best secret / strategy with every run that is only accessible by cable car
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Schilthorn is epic - IF you can ski it. A bunch of us from Wengen used to do it every Christmas day when the kids were here during the holidays, and alcohol may have been involved at the top. Here we are on Xmas day 2003. Not a helmet in sight.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
s59c7 wrote:
Thanks Alastair. We'll see how we get on and what the conditions are like before deciding what to do. Here's hoping for some decent snow next month - I read that the area tends to get more in Jan and March but not so much in Feb...
That video of black 16 brought back some memories. The narrow, relatively steep nature of the run, coupled with cut up snow and a lot of skiers who really shouldn't have been there, made it is one the hardest runs I've done. Scared snowploughers and out of control skiers really added to the difficult factor. My recollection is it wasn't even that fun. I really shouldn't make it your first black run! (Black 21 was actually worse when I was there, but that was due to it being in the shade and hence sheet ice.)
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Thanks for any advice.
