Hi All
Had trip booked for Les Arcs / la plagne end Jan .As we all know this aint going to happen .Contemplating Italy and was wondering if anyone could point us in the right direction .
All Intermediate to advanced in the group . First/Last lift , collapse at the end with a few beers .Any advice would be appreciated
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Pray for snow….but failing that France will be reopened by end of next week
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@markaly, Challenges? there's a cracking looking couloir above Champoluc, probably an abseil in then quite steep for a bit, if that appeals? but in full view of the pub, so great for spectators
Italy is mostly about motorway cruising and long lunches on a sunny terrace, but most resorts do have a few blacks.
Arabba is probably the only one with a linked area approaching the size of Les Arcs and some challenging pistes to play on. Also some amazing off-piste available from Sass Pordoi cablecar, but it does need guiding as people have died up there.
Monte Rosa area is pretty gnarly, with plenty of lift accessed off piste challenges. Gressoney is probably the best base to put you in the middle of the area.
Courmayeur has limited challenge on piste, but it opens up more with the itineraries off the Arp, Youla & Skyway Monte Bianco cablecars.
At La Thuile, you can ski over the border (no checks for skiers apparently) to the French resort of La Rosiere. From there you can gaze across the valley to the pistes of Les Arcs and wonder what could have been. La Thuile/La Rosiere is quite a large area and have their fair share of challenging pistes as well as space to play off the sides.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@markaly, It really depends what you are looking for. There are plenty of challenges to be found in Italy, and you should also consider Switzerland.
When you say "intermediate to advanced" do you mean you are all competent off-piste skiers (which would be my definition)?
Are you looking for high milage of pistes? There are some great options with smaller milage, but some here are obsessed with mega-areas.
What else is important on your holiday or is it all about the skiing?
How are you defining 'challenging'? Steep pisted blacks or skinning/rock climbing leaping off of faces and tearing down vertical couloirs type thing? The latter is pretty hard to find in Italy, also in Les Arc and La Plagne possibly?
...and to be fair, if you have intermediates in your group, they're not gonna cope with the higher end of 'challenging'.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 11-01-22 10:44; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Mollerski, Absolute nonsense. Plenty of gnarly off piste options in Italy, in fact some of the best to be had anywhere. What caused you to state"rock climbing leaping off faces and tearing down vertical couloirs type thing" is pretty hard to find in Italy?
After all it is free
After all it is free
@zikomo, Please correct my nonsense and inform me of some challenging freeride tracks in Italy other than Passo Pordoi? A week of skiing Pordoi would soon become very repetitive.
Last edited by After all it is free on Tue 11-01-22 11:39; edited 1 time in total
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@Mollerski, you are kidding right?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
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As mentioned above you need to define "challenges". There are some huge and steep lines in Monterosa, especially above Gressoney and Alagna. There are a lot of very steep and narrow couloirs in the Dolomites, and lots more besides (see https://www.versantesud.it/en/prodotto/freeriding-dolomites-2ed/).
Courmayeur is a great option for off piste - at first sight it might look small but there's a lot there if you include off piste.
If you're more interested in piste skiing and something like Les Arcs then Cervinia might be a good bet, lots of long runs there and if you include Zermatt it's a huge area.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
zikomo wrote:
@Mollerski, you are kidding right?
Take a breath sunshine and enlighten us with your wisdom.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Mollerski wrote:
@zikomo, Please correct my nonsense and inform me of some challenging freeride tracks in Italy other than Passo Pordoi? A week of skiing Pordoi would soon become very repetitive.
There are about a dozen different routes from *just* the Pordoi, if conditions were good a week on that one lift would be great There are a few more in the Sella area off the Boe lift. Then there's stuff on the Marmolada (some glaciated I think, can be quite serious), a few runs around the Passo Valporola area and then stuff further east on Tofana and Cristallo, and further south Pale de San Martino has a reputation for very good free riding. That's just the Dolomites.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
sah wrote:
There are about a dozen different routes from *just* the Pordoi, if conditions were good a week on that one lift would be great There are a few more in the Sella area off the Boe lift. Then there's stuff on the Marmolada (some glaciated I think, can be quite serious), a few runs around the Passo Valporola area and then stuff further east on Tofana and Cristallo, and further south Pale de San Martino has a reputation for very good free riding. That's just the Dolomites.
I've not skied Pordoi, so can't comment. I know the Boe area fairly well and wouldn't exactly call it 'freeride', more tree runs between pistes.
Are we talking from first hand experience here, or quoting from guide books written ostensibly to promote the area? It's sounding like the latter. I love and know the valleys around the Sella Ronda pretty well and it ain't no red hot off piste destination.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Mollerski wrote:
sah wrote:
Mollerski wrote:
@zikomo, Please correct my nonsense and inform me of some challenging freeride tracks in Italy other than Passo Pordoi? A week of skiing Pordoi would soon become very repetitive.
There are about a dozen different routes from *just* the Pordoi, if conditions were good a week on that one lift would be great There are a few more in the Sella area off the Boe lift. Then there's stuff on the Marmolada (some glaciated I think, can be quite serious), a few runs around the Passo Valporola area and then stuff further east on Tofana and Cristallo, and further south Pale de San Martino has a reputation for very good free riding. That's just the Dolomites.
I've not skied Pordoi, so can't comment. I know the Boe area fairly well and wouldn't exactly call it 'freeride', more tree runs between pistes.
There's the Sentiero couloir off the Vallon chair (that's the top of Boe I think?) 700m with sections of 40 degrees apparently The Kostner couloir in the same area is even steeper I think (I'm not claiming to have skied either of them btw ) There are runs directly off the Boe if you traverse skier's left which are proper freeriding terrain and can get pretty steep. I have explored this area very tentatively and it's a place I'd go back to with a guide.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Mollerski, responding to your question about my experience, partly first hand and partly from the excellent guidebook
I'd agree the Dolomites doesn't have a reputation for off piste, I think maybe because it doesn't get the deep snow as often as, say, the Arlberg or Monterosa. When it does get the snow I think it's a great area for off piste. I had a weekend there a few years ago in heavy snow, no one else was skiing off piste (that I saw), we were getting fresh tracks on easy access terrain in Val Gardena and between Corvara and Arabba. Nothing serious as it was tipping it down and at the time I didn't really know where to go, I was just following my nose and trying to keep in the trees. We looked in to hiring a guide to ski more serious terrain but not surprisingly they got booked up in conditions like that. Its an area I plan to explore a lot more in the future for sure.
My knowledge of Monterosa is first hand, same for Courmayeur. I've skied a few times in both these areas, mostly off piste, and I've barely touched what's available.
My knowledge of Pale de San Martino is entirely second hand but it's from a reliable source and it's certainly piqued my interest in the area.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
sah wrote:
I'd agree the Dolomites doesn't have a reputation for off piste, I think maybe because it doesn't get the deep snow as often as, say, the Arlberg or Monterosa. .
Also the topography doesn't lend itself. The faces tend to be vertical transitioning to shallow very quickly. The few couloirs that there are require hours of serious commitment to climb them.
The upshot of the terrain shape being, minimal avalanche risk.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mollerski wrote:
How are you defining 'challenging'? Steep pisted blacks or skinning/rock climbing leaping off of faces and tearing down vertical couloirs type thing? The latter is pretty hard to find in Italy
Tbh there's probably more of the latter than the former, at least if we're talking Dolomites (no idea about the rest of Italy). Every other rock in Dollies is crammed with steep but climbable/skiable couloirs, just they're more serious/require more work than most people are looking for.
Looks like there's a lot of non-couloir fun to be had too
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
[quote="clarky999"]
Mollerski wrote:
Tbh there's probably more of the latter than the former, at least if we're talking Dolomites (no idea about the rest of Italy). Every other rock in Dollies is crammed with steep but climbable/skiable couloirs, just they're more serious/require more work than most people are looking for.
That's a fair point. Most are rarely or never tracked because of the monumental effort required to climb them.
Just in Cortina you have Bus di Tofana and sci18. The former needs a minimal, but serious climb, but the latter needs no climb and is a great decent. Then you have all the offpiste around cinque torri.
Sass Pordei and marmorlada have some great decents too.
I have not been to Passo tonale in the winter time, but from what I saw in the summer there should be some great route from the top.
From the top of Bormio you have the Vallone and in Santa Catarina you have the north side.
Madesimo has some great off piste from the top lift. Canalone and Camosci on the front and the long way back down the backside to Fraciscio.
Alagna/Monte Rosa must be world class off piste destination. So many great decents and with little effort.
Courmayeur: Val Veny from the Arp is fantastic. And pick tour line from Helbronner. Unfortunately, I have never skied Marbree glacier but looks great under the right avalanche conditions.
Cervinia: good lines down from both the Theodulpass and Plateau Rosa.
Limone: a little gem with lots of fun mountain if there is enough snow.
Sella Nevea: Never been (was planning to go in March 2020 ) but looks great with good snow both on the Italian side and the Slovenian side.
All countries in the Alps have great off piste terrain and no one is better than the other. In my opinion, Italy is no little brother compared to the others.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Mollerski wrote:
zikomo wrote:
@Mollerski, you are kidding right?
Take a breath sunshine and enlighten us with your wisdom.
Hmmmm seem to have got up your nose a bit. Not sure why.
Personal experience of great couloirs in the Dolomites. Easy to fill a week in good conditions, no repeat ascents. Yes can be a bit of work to get into some of them, depends what your level of experience is and what you regard as extreme. Definitely need to go when conditions are good though, and there is relatively east access to lots of good terrain.
Plenty of challenging, and long descents around Monterosa. Alanga especially Again easy to fill a week.
Lots of other options in Italy. Macugnaga is a good base especially for heli ascents Here is one of my favourites (steep and long):
I guess I reacted to a flat statement of yours stating Italy is not a destination for challenging freeride, which is patently untrue so I have no idea why you made it as clearly you don't have very extensive knowledge of the subject.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
The Kostner couloir in the same area is even steeper I think (I'm not claiming to have skied either of them btw 
) There are runs directly off the Boe if you traverse skier's left which are proper freeriding terrain and can get pretty steep. I have explored this area very tentatively and it's a place I'd go back to with a guide.
) but looks great with good snow both on the Italian side and the Slovenian side.
