 Poster: A snowHead
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All I'm seeing lately on here, Facebook Ski Club and a few other places is covid-related guff and questions looking for answers from people too lazy to go and find out for themselves.
"I had to cancel Courchevel, what's Glenshee like at half term?" is my current particular fave  .
Then there are the moanaholics who have booked, cancelled, rebooked cancelled, rebooked, cancelled, refunded, booked, cancelled, rebooked etc who huff and puff because their poor tour operator, understaffed due to covid and who hasn't earned a bean in two years, can't manage to pick up the phone after 45 minutes. Give 'em a bloody break.
Then there are those who go to extraordinary lengths just to get some skiing in. Like these entitled dafties https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/family-europe-eu-covid-rules-ski-trip-306532/
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| A white middle-class British family has been slammed for “skirting round European restrictions” to enjoy “entirely unnecessary travel”.In an article published by The Telegraph, Emma Cripwell boasted about outsmarting tightening European rules in order to have a family ski trip for Christmas. Cripwell said her family swapped the ferry from Dover to Calais with one from Harwich to the Hook of Holland because of new Covid rules imposed by France.She said: “We’d never been to Harwich before – let alone the Hook of Holland – so our odyssey to reach the slopes was becoming more exciting by the moment, despite the obvious stress. “The next blow arrived, courtesy of The Netherlands and Germany both going into lockdown – or something close to it. We had visions of being turned away at one of the borders, so we were forced to rethink (again). Our next option? A flight from Bristol to Geneva.”After bashing the French government a little bit more by labelling president Emmanuel Macron’s rules as a “killer blow to our original plans”, Cripwell presented the next steps in the journey – a taxi and a bus from Switzerland to Courmayeur in Italy.But, seemingly against Geneva’s reputation as the global hub for diplomacy, the British mother proceeded to slam the Swiss for not “living up” to their renowned efficiency because of a one-hour wait at passport control.etc etc |
Then, and this is the biggie IMO, there are all those I know or hear about who strained every sinue, managed to get away over Christmas, managed to get home and then, suddenly, now say they can't go out NYE due to Covid. How much rule bending is going on do you think? Everyone I know seems to be getting +ve LFTs when at home but suddenly they become immune when in airports, trains and ski hotels.
How can France and UK have catastrophic daily numbers yet thousands of skiers are not getting +ve tests and enduring quarantine in France/Italy etc? Or do we have this scene to look forward to on our tellies this weekend? I can't be the only one wondering about this.
Personally, I'm just going to sit things out til March/April. See what happens.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Pruman, our own plans were scuppered by the change in regulations, but we were already at 90% on deciding to pull the plug on our trip. Our professional obligations come first, although we've now all got Covid and haven't left the house since 27th (when we had to go for our PCR tests). There are certainly some self-entitled tw@ts around.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Pruman, Bit harsh, it's mainly a collective 'swish' as people clutch at straws.
"A traumatic event engenders in a man the need to talk..."
From my resistance-to-interrogation course tutor. He didn't know who said it, but I always envisioned an evil-looking bloke in a fur hat holding a pair of pliers threateningly! I digress.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Pruman,
Having a bad day?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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No, it’s not just you. People seem to have lost the ability to use google or read even fairly short threads to find basic information.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Call me an entitled tw@t, but after months of planning and expectation, I wasn't going to cancel a family holiday on the basis that my crossing was 2 hours past the deadline.
Me and my family have sacrificed enough over the last 2 years first to keep OAPs alive, now to do the same for the uvaxxed imbeciles. Enough is enough. If I had to do more than just move my crossing a couple of hours forward, like the (fictional?) character from the article - I would have.
We have taken every reasonable precaution by reducing human contact and wearing ffp2 medical grade masks in public places. If worst comes to worse, we are prepared to take the consequences and isolate. Without moaning or blaming politicians - they will be damned of they do and damned if they don't.
One thing I will not do is make an apology for "skirting the rules". Let alone agree that my travel was unnecessary - who tf that Twitter nobody is to decide what's necessary for me and my family.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 31-12-21 17:52; edited 1 time in total
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@Oleski, 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As an OAP who has just lost two of the precious few skiing years left to him, and may yet lose another, I resemble that remark 
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| oldsnowy wrote: |
@Pruman,
Having a bad day? |
My thoughts exactly
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have some sympathy with the OP. A lot of people do find a great deal to moan about. Some people who have shouted loudly about being entitled to refunds for everything have irritated me. Why should someone else take the entire hit? Anyone who can "afford" to spend £X on a holiday can clearly "afford" to lose it, even though they would prefer that someone else lost it. Anybody who made arrangements to travel around Christmas/New year time (including me) surely realised that there was a significant risk of disruption?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@pam w, not sure on that, I can afford to spend a few grand skiing, I can’t afford to spend a few grand and get nothing for it
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I think the difference for those of us lucky enough to have got some skiing in is between those who regard their glass as half full and those who’s glass is half empty
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You know it makes sense.
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| Boris wrote: |
| @pam w, not sure on that, I can afford to spend a few grand skiing, I can’t afford to spend a few grand and get nothing for it |
Totally understand your feelings and would feel the same - but in reality Pam is right, you can afford the trip, and so can afford to lose the money. Technically when you paid for the trip the money has already gone, what you actually have missed out on is the experience of the trip.
After the first lockdown, got my hair cut after months not - total mess btw - I also paid for all the other cuts I missed out on - as I would normally have had it cut. The business needed the cash ( small local place ) and all I'd had ro put up with was longer hair - its what I felt was right. YMMV
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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“Can’t afford” has much more meaning for small businesses who can’t afford to lose a few weeks’ income as a result of covid
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I also paid for all the other cuts I missed out on - as I would normally have had it cut.
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That was very kind of you, @Bones. There has been quite a bit of kindness around in this pandemic, as well as some shocking lack of kindness.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Bones, yes it’s paid for, but I still expect the goods or service I paid for. Happy to let it roll over to another time but I’m sorry I can’t just write it off.
Yes I have written off a few things over the last few years for race entries or lost deposits, but several grand for a family trip is at a lot of our annual disposable income.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have mixed feelings, particularly - as Yoda says - since I am an OAP who sees skiing opportunities disappearing all too fast. But I am not in the business of moralizing on behalf of others, details of whose personal circumstances I don't know.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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To travel at the moment, you need nerves of steel, the ability to be incredibly flexible, willing and able to change your plans at any given moment, and pockets of spare cash for all the unforeseen extra costs. Many people cannot do this because of other commitments etc. Some definitely shouldn't do this, as they don't have the nerves for it! But some can, and will. They are not necessarily entitled, but they almost certainly are persistent and determined.
There may be some resentment from those in the first groups towards those in the latter. This is also to be expected.
Yes, it's a bit annoying answering the same questions over and over, but at the speed rules are changing, it's inevitable that people who don't spend all day on the internet checking travel regulations don't know what's going on. It's infuriating that websites providing information are regularly out of date or just wrong. It is also worth remembering that the tourist industry needs customers, and if everyone stays at home it doesn't help.
I don't judge people who want to get away for the first time in two years. You can often tell who has all the things they need to make it work, and the determination to see it through, even if they need a bit of help untangling some bureaucracy. All power to them, I hope they have a good trip.
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Just a different way of looking at things, @Boris. If someone loses money on a cancelled holiday that's sad, but if they spend the next six months declaring themselves "entitled to feel angry about it", that's sadder.
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I have no problem with people asking lots of questions on Snowheads, even if arguably they could go away and do the research for themselves. There are, thankfully, a lot of people who are very well informed, keep up with all the latest information and are happy to share their knowledge. Nobody is forced to do so.
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| Bones wrote: |
| Boris wrote: |
| @pam w, not sure on that, I can afford to spend a few grand skiing, I can’t afford to spend a few grand and get nothing for it |
Totally understand your feelings and would feel the same - but in reality Pam is right, you can afford the trip, and so can afford to lose the money. Technically when you paid for the trip the money has already gone, what you actually have missed out on is the experience of the trip.
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People go on ski holidays to get a much needed break and improve their mental well-being. Money spent on a holiday that didn't go ahead and cannot be recovered is the money that can't be spent on alternative holidays. Result is the miserable and depressing winter in the UK.
On top of that not all of us have a luxury to be able to get out on a short notice when/if rules relax, some of us have school age kids, you know.
So, no you and Pam are wrong - we can't afford to lose that money.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We were lucky enough to go skiing in France at Christmas without breaking any rules and had negative pcrs on our return. I think there is a far greater chance of us picking up covid when schools return next week than there was on a self catered self drive ski holiday.
I feel sorry for those who missed out through cancelled flight packages, new year week bookings that couldn't be brought forward or having teens who were not eligible for a second vaccine in time. Hope you will all be able to go skiing later in the season.
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@Boris, the clue is in the word “disposable”. Nobody likes to lose money but ski holidays are a luxury and under Covid lots of people are losing essential income needed for housing, food, utilities etc
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@On the rocks, Many people live in houses that are bigger than they need so their mortgage and bills are higher than necessary and therefore as much a luxury as the ski holiday of someone who may live in a small flat but chose to save their money for a ski trip. It irritates me when judgements are made on how people chose to spend their income as it seems acceptable to have an unnecessarily high mortgage but not to spend money on holidays. Furthermore money spent on ski holidays enables those who work in the travel industry or the Alps to pay for their essential bills such as housing, heating, food etc.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@snowymum, that doesn’t make sense. Nobody has the option to suddenly downsize and get an instant reduction in their outgoings. It’s just like self employed friends of mine who lost a lot of money due to not been my able to work. I was very lucky to ski in December but if the trip was cancelled with no refunds I would be no worse off. As for mental well being, it is perfectly possible to relax and recuperate with time off work in the UK with country walks etc
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| Oleski wrote: |
...Money spent on a holiday that didn't go ahead and cannot be recovered is the money that can't be spent on alternative holidays. Result is the miserable and depressing winter in the UK.
... we can't afford to lose that money. |
But you lose it if you go or if you don't: it's a sunk cost.
Smart people book stuff which is refundable, or even simply stay home. And don't need to whine.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just wait until half term family skiing holidays are cancelled, you aint seen nothing yet, Facebook and Mumsnet will go into meltdown.......
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@GreenDay, I’ll get the popcorn in ready
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Poster: A snowHead
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The concept of sunk cost, like the concept of opportunity cost, can be very useful in everyday life.
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Smart people book stuff which is refundable, or even simply stay home
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Or recognise that there are some risks in life which are worth taking - that can be smart, too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Oleski, some very sensible posts here. I had a 3 hour ski holiday in 2020, came home to find I wasn't allowed to work for 3 months with zero financial help, have worked like a bug since going back and am now knackered! Wearing a fully fitted and tested FFP2 mask all day every day and a gown etc is simply no fun. ( and paying for it all ) We will ski this season, for mental health it's so vital for me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Pruman wrote: |
All I'm seeing lately on here, Facebook Ski Club and a few other places is covid-related guff and questions looking for answers from people too lazy to go and find out for themselves.
"I had to cancel Courchevel, what's Glenshee like at half term?" is my current particular fave .
Then there are the moanaholics who have booked, cancelled, rebooked cancelled, rebooked, cancelled, refunded, booked, cancelled, rebooked etc who huff and puff because their poor tour operator, understaffed due to covid and who hasn't earned a bean in two years, can't manage to pick up the phone after 45 minutes. Give 'em a bloody break.
Then there are those who go to extraordinary lengths just to get some skiing in. Like these entitled dafties https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/family-europe-eu-covid-rules-ski-trip-306532/
| Quote: |
| A white middle-class British family has been slammed for “skirting round European restrictions” to enjoy “entirely unnecessary travel”.In an article published by The Telegraph, Emma Cripwell boasted about outsmarting tightening European rules in order to have a family ski trip for Christmas. Cripwell said her family swapped the ferry from Dover to Calais with one from Harwich to the Hook of Holland because of new Covid rules imposed by France.She said: “We’d never been to Harwich before – let alone the Hook of Holland – so our odyssey to reach the slopes was becoming more exciting by the moment, despite the obvious stress. “The next blow arrived, courtesy of The Netherlands and Germany both going into lockdown – or something close to it. We had visions of being turned away at one of the borders, so we were forced to rethink (again). Our next option? A flight from Bristol to Geneva.”After bashing the French government a little bit more by labelling president Emmanuel Macron’s rules as a “killer blow to our original plans”, Cripwell presented the next steps in the journey – a taxi and a bus from Switzerland to Courmayeur in Italy.But, seemingly against Geneva’s reputation as the global hub for diplomacy, the British mother proceeded to slam the Swiss for not “living up” to their renowned efficiency because of a one-hour wait at passport control.etc etc |
Then, and this is the biggie IMO, there are all those I know or hear about who strained every sinue, managed to get away over Christmas, managed to get home and then, suddenly, now say they can't go out NYE due to Covid. How much rule bending is going on do you think? Everyone I know seems to be getting +ve LFTs when at home but suddenly they become immune when in airports, trains and ski hotels.
How can France and UK have catastrophic daily numbers yet thousands of skiers are not getting +ve tests and enduring quarantine in France/Italy etc? Or do we have this scene to look forward to on our tellies this weekend? I can't be the only one wondering about this.
Personally, I'm just going to sit things out til March/April. See what happens. |
Yes it’s shite. I’m also bored of Covid/brexit etc.
So start an interesting thread (tall skiing stories?) and invite us all to pull up a chair! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Pruman wrote: |
All I'm seeing lately on here, Facebook Ski Club and a few other places is covid-related guff and questions looking for answers from people too lazy to go and find out for themselves.
"I had to cancel Courchevel, what's Glenshee like at half term?" is my current particular fave .
Then there are the moanaholics who have booked, cancelled, rebooked cancelled, rebooked, cancelled, refunded, booked, cancelled, rebooked etc who huff and puff because their poor tour operator, understaffed due to covid and who hasn't earned a bean in two years, can't manage to pick up the phone after 45 minutes. Give 'em a bloody break.
Then there are those who go to extraordinary lengths just to get some skiing in. Like these entitled dafties https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/family-europe-eu-covid-rules-ski-trip-306532/
| Quote: |
| A white middle-class British family has been slammed for “skirting round European restrictions” to enjoy “entirely unnecessary travel”.In an article published by The Telegraph, Emma Cripwell boasted about outsmarting tightening European rules in order to have a family ski trip for Christmas. Cripwell said her family swapped the ferry from Dover to Calais with one from Harwich to the Hook of Holland because of new Covid rules imposed by France.She said: “We’d never been to Harwich before – let alone the Hook of Holland – so our odyssey to reach the slopes was becoming more exciting by the moment, despite the obvious stress. “The next blow arrived, courtesy of The Netherlands and Germany both going into lockdown – or something close to it. We had visions of being turned away at one of the borders, so we were forced to rethink (again). Our next option? A flight from Bristol to Geneva.”After bashing the French government a little bit more by labelling president Emmanuel Macron’s rules as a “killer blow to our original plans”, Cripwell presented the next steps in the journey – a taxi and a bus from Switzerland to Courmayeur in Italy.But, seemingly against Geneva’s reputation as the global hub for diplomacy, the British mother proceeded to slam the Swiss for not “living up” to their renowned efficiency because of a one-hour wait at passport control.etc etc |
Then, and this is the biggie IMO, there are all those I know or hear about who strained every sinue, managed to get away over Christmas, managed to get home and then, suddenly, now say they can't go out NYE due to Covid. How much rule bending is going on do you think? Everyone I know seems to be getting +ve LFTs when at home but suddenly they become immune when in airports, trains and ski hotels.
How can France and UK have catastrophic daily numbers yet thousands of skiers are not getting +ve tests and enduring quarantine in France/Italy etc? Or do we have this scene to look forward to on our tellies this weekend? I can't be the only one wondering about this.
Personally, I'm just going to sit things out til March/April. See what happens. |
Covid related guff is dominating at the moment though. And very often, people on here are asking questions because the information they require is hard to find. Also, people on here could be in resort / or just returned from resort so are better placed to answer questions. Plus, you don’t have to read all the posts on here, so here’s a thought for you, why don’t you stop moaning and just read the threads/posts which are of interest to you? Happy new year.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Oleski wrote: |
| Bones wrote: |
| Boris wrote: |
| @pam w, not sure on that, I can afford to spend a few grand skiing, I can’t afford to spend a few grand and get nothing for it |
Totally understand your feelings and would feel the same - but in reality Pam is right, you can afford the trip, and so can afford to lose the money. Technically when you paid for the trip the money has already gone, what you actually have missed out on is the experience of the trip.
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People go on ski holidays to get a much needed break and improve their mental well-being. Money spent on a holiday that didn't go ahead and cannot be recovered is the money that can't be spent on alternative holidays. Result is the miserable and depressing winter in the UK.
On top of that not all of us have a luxury to be able to get out on a short notice when/if rules relax, some of us have school age kids, you know.
So, no you and Pam are wrong - we can't afford to lose that money. |
Especially when it's arbitrarily denied you by someone/something outwith your control, and you're prevented from reclaiming any of the costs by an over self-important fractious toddler.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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'I've sacrificed enough over the last two years to keep OAPs alive'
Really?
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| snowymum wrote: |
| @On the rocks, Many people live in houses that are bigger than they need so their mortgage and bills are higher than necessary and therefore as much a luxury as the ski holiday of someone who may live in a small flat but chose to save their money for a ski trip. It irritates me when judgements are made on how people chose to spend their income as it seems acceptable to have an unnecessarily high mortgage but not to spend money on holidays. Furthermore money spent on ski holidays enables those who work in the travel industry or the Alps to pay for their essential bills such as housing, heating, food etc. |
I totally agree. We don’t have a mortgage and I don’t spend very much money, comparably perhaps, on ski trips but have skied every year nearly since I was very young. I definitely don’t spend “thousands”. Due to missing out on a booked late ski trip in March 2020, if I don’t ski this year, that will be three years missed from the slopes. We were hoping to go to France in a couple of weeks - doubt that’s going to be happening now and so hope to push back to March. I’m in my early 60’s and every year lost to no skiing gives me anguish. It’s not as if we can rebook in June or whenever (forget glaciers, Southern Hemisphere, etc etc I’ve done all that… I just want to ski peacefully and inexpensively in France. Which can be done).
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@Kimski44, well I’m in my early 60’s too, and I only started skiing in my late 40’s so arguably my need to maximise skiing in my autumn years may be greater than yours. However all the talk on here on “can’t afford to not go skiing” would ring hollow with those who still have mortgages on modest homes which they “can’t afford” to pay due to loss of income during Covid.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes, you must try to maximise your skiing too! I know I am lucky to have skied all my life so hoping those skills will stand me in good stead when I am in my 80’s haha. But having not skied since 2019 - nearly three years ago - seems just so odd. I have been quite poor at stages in my life and therefore have skied (and made my children ski) in very tight circumstances, teeny apartments, teeny ski stations, taking picnics everywhere etc etc etc, so it can be done. I feel that the general public’s perception, even these days, is still often that skiing is the preserve of the very wealthy (in the U.K., anyway) and when you see what some people shell out for for their ski holidays, I can see why. But it doesn’t have to be St Moritz/Courchevel/Zermatt and so on, and it is up to people to budget for what they feel is important to spend their money on.
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| Oleski wrote: |
| Me and my family have sacrificed enough over the last 2 years first to keep OAPs alive....... |
Summed up beautifully, poetic almost. A perfect illustration of how catastrophically entitled and moronic some people are. Lots of people are at greater risk of death, not just OAPs - certain ethnicities, disabled people, poorer people, diabetics, cancer sufferers, immune suppressed and many more - but let's go skiing and let them die. It's the 'must ski at all costs' attitude I just don't get or whenever the 'mental health card' gets played to trump any other arguments.
| oldsnowy wrote: |
@Pruman,
Having a bad day? |
On t'internet a good day is of course triggering people to say "having a bad day?"
My overall point is really 'Why now? What's the mad rush?'. At this time of year you stand a bigger chance of lousy weather, travel disruption, poorer snow conditions, less snow depth, more unstable off piste etc. When you add in the chance of quarantine at either end (I'm still perplexed as to how many thousands aren't testing negative for their return trips and then suddenly coming down with covid when safely back in say London where 1:15 have covid), sudden rule changes, risk of huge extra expense, risk of missing work +++
Best skiing I have ever had has always been late season, like April - admittedly that's a survey of one person over 50 years, but talk to most other oldtimers and it's the same. I've had good ones in December and Jan too but fewer and further between. So, I'm saying save your spondz for when the covid landscape might (?) be clearer and travel more certain, less stressful. Happy New Year y'all.
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FAQ
