 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The future for travel and tourism IS NOT uncertain at all. The timeline is.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| stanton wrote: |
| The UK is considering an Australian Style Travel Ban ... |
Good article on this point from The Spectator
I know a lot of people aren't keen on @statnton's particular brand of "doom and gloom", but as a pessimist myself, who would generally prefer to be pleasantly surprised rather than constantly disappointed, I don't see things ever getting back to "normal". And I think we're still a long way off reaching the "new normal" worldwide.
We could follow Australia or New Zealand's lead, but if we do, it's going to make for a bleak 12 months in ways that are presumably important to all of us: travelling abroad. And unlike both of those countries, the UK cannot claim to really offer both sun and snow holidays within its own borders.
With Glastonbury already cancelled, it won't be long until focus shifts to international events like the Olympics and European Championships, and if both rely on fans to be financially viable, I struggle to see how either goes ahead.
Anyway, I fear I've veered into Apres territory already. Apologies!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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if we were on QI, I'd be answering "nobody knows" for bonus points
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Unfortunately a lot of politicians, and people in authority generally, don't like the idea of the general population being allowed to travel freely. This applies especially to international travel but also internally. At the moment, this is on grounds of covid (because if you're going somewhere you might meet somebody there or spread covid on the way) but it can also be 'justified' on grounds of pollution or global warming. Or in Britain, protecting the NHS, which is in crisis every winter even without covid.
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@peerless ploughman, B*ll*cks, name a politician/person in authority who thinks this with some evidence
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I think the Olympics are doomed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I think the Olympics are doomed. |
I think so, unless Japan decide they can afford to host it without international visitors. And even then, it's by far from a given.
But if I had to say which country's inhabitants could be trusted to attend a major event, whilst following strict H&S guidelines (not to mention tidying up after themselves whilst they're at it), then it would be Japan.
As the Australian Open organisers are finding though, getting the competitors and their support staff into the country without incident is far from easy. And in terms of numbers / scale, the Olympics dwarfs a tennis grand slam event.
But as I said, I'm a pessimist 
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 22-01-21 15:28; edited 1 time in total
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| rambotion wrote: |
| @peerless ploughman, B*ll*cks, name a politician/person in authority who thinks this with some evidence |
+1
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jellylegs wrote: |
| rambotion wrote: |
| @peerless ploughman, B*ll*cks, name a politician/person in authority who thinks this with some evidence |
+1 |
Priti Patel?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I read yesterday that Fortress Britain is being considered because there is little point in getting everyone vaccinated but then allowing in a variant that evades it.
Fortress Britain would put us in the same position in 6 months time that NZ and Aus are in now.
If this happens then I'd be very concerned about next year.
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| Quote: |
Fortress Britain would put us in the same position in 6 months time that NZ and Aus are in now
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Watching the jolly crowds watching the Prada Cup in Auckland, that doesn't seem such a terrible fate. If we could go to pubs, clubs, theatres and concert halls, and see our family and friends, I would happily forego foreign travel. Let's keep things in perspective.
However, "fortress Britain" feels like a highly improbably outcome to me.
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You know it makes sense.
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Though locked down UK seemed improbable a year ago - so who knows?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| jebroni3_16 wrote: |
With Glastonbury already cancelled, it won't be long until focus shifts to international events like the Olympics and European Championships, and if both rely on fans to be financially viable, I struggle to see how either goes ahead. |
The glastonbury age group are unlikely to have been vaccinated by glastonbury dates.. would likely to have been by ski season.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| jebroni3_16 wrote: |
With Glastonbury already cancelled, it won't be long until focus shifts to international events like the Olympics and European Championships, and if both rely on fans to be financially viable, I struggle to see how either goes ahead. |
The glastonbury age group are unlikely to have been vaccinated by glastonbury dates.. would likely to have been by ski season. |
Time for Saga to get into the ski TO business?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@stanton,
It is about managed risks against economical damage.
Could areas of the alps be able to survive another 2x summers & winters without tourism?
What about other countries like spain & greece who rely on tourism?
Once people have been vaccinated and we continue to social distance & wear masks, then it will take time to see if / what measures work.
what is the end game for the population if it does not?
Suck it up & carry on under house arrest?
Suck it up & carry on living expecting at somepoint to be infected?
There is a year long program to vaccinate people & as the weeks & months pass, the data & risk can be assessed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
If we could go to pubs, clubs, theatres and concert halls, and see our family and friends, I would happily forego foreign travel. Let's keep things in perspective.
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Can I add, have some decent weather as well. I actually agree with you but one of the main factors for taking a holiday abroad is the strong chance of many sunny days.
Oh and it's usually cheaper than staying in UK
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Boris wrote: |
| Quote: |
If we could go to pubs, clubs, theatres and concert halls, and see our family and friends, I would happily forego foreign travel. Let's keep things in perspective.
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Can I add, have some decent weather as well. I actually agree with you but one of the main factors for taking a holiday abroad is the strong chance of many sunny days.
Oh and it's usually cheaper than staying in UK |
[Enters Stanton mode] Next season's gonna be a lot more expensive for the Brits', don't ya know! [Exits Stanton mode]
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Boris, Yeah this season has cost me LESS than last season.
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This Fortress Britain idea is dreadful, I cannot believe so many people are accepting trading restrictions for activities. Still, when so many people look to others or governments for advice and assistance every time they perceive a possible difficulty, it's not surprising.
I go to the mountains because I want excitement and adventure and really wild things, at the time when the UK is dull, nothing's happening, and everyone's whinging and broke. Only this season the other things I would normally do have been restricted too. I can't row in a boat on the water, so I'm told, so if I want to go into it I have to put a wetsuit on and face the same hazards with much, much less mitigation of the risks they pose. Still, it's a little adventure and the water is the only place where I don't have to look at masked faces.
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| jebroni3_16 wrote: |
With Glastonbury already cancelled, it won't be long until focus shifts to international events like the Olympics and European Championships, and if both rely on fans to be financially viable, I struggle to see how either goes ahead. |
The glastonbury age group are unlikely to have been vaccinated by glastonbury dates.. would likely to have been by ski season. |
Actually most of the Glastonbury age group will probably have been vaccinated by then! I have always considered Glastonbiry more middle aged than many festivals... 
I entirely concur with other thoughts regarding locking ourselves away on an island or in a country. NZ and Oz can to an extent do it because they are so far away from anywhere else and whilst tourism is important I suspect most of Oz wealth comes from mining
It is interesting it has not taken long for the spanish tourist minister to sort of contradict her pm
I have decided to be optimistic for 2020/21.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Politicians of various parties have made it clear that they regard travel as a privilege, not a right, nor even a legitimate expectation on people's part. Hancock and Sturgeon are two obvious examples, listen to any of their press conferences when a reporter asks about it.
Or listen to any of the rival politicians who are constantly saying that lives could have been saved, if only Johnson / Hancock / Sturgeon had locked down sooner, or clamped down tighter on travel.
To some extent, it is indeed true that if no one ever went anywhere except for essential purposes, lives would be saved in terms of covid and other infectious disease, accidents, pollution etc.
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| Quote: |
Politicians of various parties have made it clear that they regard travel as a privilege, not a right, nor even a legitimate expectation on people's part.
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And? Travel IS a privilege. Food, shelter, job, education etc. are things that are necessary. Even as someone that loves to travel I can accept it's completely unnecessary. Having spent most of the last 5 years abroad I can hardly see how our government has in any way tried to limit travel pre covid. Following covid yes, but there are obvious reasons why travel should be limited right now.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If travel in possible I will be spending summer away working as a hiking guide, followed by 2 months hiking in Nepal, back to UK for Xmas, then Jan to April in Canada snowboarding. Would I rather be doing that than stuck in UK? Absolutely. Would I exchange that for us being back to normal in UK but having borders closed? Absolutely.
For the people claiming UK is boring you know what they say - being bored is for boring people. If things are back to something resembling normal there is near infinite things to do in UK. Plenty of adventure to be had if you look for it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@peerless ploughman, You've got half way there and named some politicians however you haven't provided any evidence that those politicians have a general dislike of people being able to travel freely. To me, Sturgeon always seems particularly apologetic when announcing restrictions and Johnson clearly hates announcing restrictions and seems to have visibly aged and lost his particular style of charisma. Hancock doesn't announce new restrictions so its hard to judge how he feels about them. Sure, these are just my impressions and yours are clearly different so I again I challenge you to find one quote supporting your position.
While I think the below statement is pretty stupid, I don't believe that anyone who secretly wanted to restrict our travel could come out with the below:
Johnson: “There is an important difference between our country and many other countries around the world,” Johnson told the House of Commons yesterday. “Our country is a freedom-loving country.”: Johnson portrayed this as a primal impulse that resides deep in the national psyche, saying he was “deeply, spiritually reluctant to make any of these impositions, or infringe anyone’s freedom”.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/23/freedom-loving-brits-prime-minister-state-conservative
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@boarder2020, Travel is education if you are learning a language for example and it is also 1000s of people's jobs in this country.
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You know it makes sense.
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| peerless ploughman wrote: |
| Politicians of various parties have made it clear that they regard travel as a privilege... |
What? Is that something people say on Twitter or something? That's meaningless nonsense. By that logic, they also regard murdering people as a privilege, and I'm with them all the way. Johnson is obviously "privileged", but that's only relevant in so much as it's an enabler for his incompetence.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
If travel in possible I will be spending summer away working as a hiking guide, followed by 2 months hiking in Nepal, back to UK for Xmas, then Jan to April in Canada snowboarding. Would I rather be doing that than stuck in UK? Absolutely. Would I exchange that for us being back to normal in UK but having borders closed? Absolutely.
For the people claiming UK is boring you know what they say - being bored is for boring people. If things are back to something resembling normal there is near infinite things to do in UK. Plenty of adventure to be had if you look for it. |
Well said. Closing borders will provoke a massive tantrum from me, (a spoilt millennial) because for the first time in my nearly thirty years I won't be able to travel more easily to Naples than Scarborough, but after a hundred seconds I'll just get on with living and having adventures anyway.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| BoardieK wrote: |
I read yesterday that Fortress Britain is being considered because there is little point in getting everyone vaccinated but then allowing in a variant that evades it.
Fortress Britain would put us in the same position in 6 months time that NZ and Aus are in now.
If this happens then I'd be very concerned about next year. |
What position is that exactly? Yes, they are largely C-19 free, and able to move about the country relatively freely, but they can't go abroad and are subject to quite strict restrictions at no notice where flare ups occur.
The UK should have gone "Fortress UK" during Lockdown 1, not now in Lockdown 3.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The position is that life there is more or less like normal whereas over here it is nothing like normal.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@peerless ploughman 94,580 people would vociferously disagree with you. Unfortunately they can't, because they're dead. In part thanks to your strain of CRG-backed propaganda.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm afraid I had to look up who the CRG are.
I'm not sure if they deny that nearly 100 thousand people in UK have died of covid, & millions elsewhere.
I certainly don't.
I do however suspect that some people in positions of authority, while not welcoming covid, tend to react in an authoritarian way. Some restrictions that they impose have only the vaguest or very indirect relationship with disease transmission, but have other advantages from the institutional standpoint. Like, in London, sealing off streets to confine traffic to fewer roads ( using government-provided covid funding). Like in Scotland & Wales, banning travel between one council area & the next (this being said to 'strengthen democratic accountability').
Regarding international travel, politicians don't say in so many words that they regard it as a privilege not a right, but when they get questioned at press conferences they strongly imply that it is an unwarranted luxury.
As do some fellow snowheads I gather.......
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Travel is a relatively recent privilege, at least affordable for the masses, but it’s also one which adds huge value to people’s lives, employs millions of people and contributes tens of billions in taxes. Even in the UK, it is our 4th largest industry sector, even before you consider the secondary spending associated with it.
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@peerless ploughman, Died within 28 days of a positive test, not necessarily 'of covid'. Be interesting to know a more precise covid cause of death number.
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| Quote: |
they regard it as a privilege not a right, but when they get questioned at press conferences they strongly imply that it is an unwarranted luxury.
As do some fellow snowheads I gather.......
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I've travelled all over the world, including living and working abroad. Of course it's added hugely to my life and I'd like to continue to do so in future. I don't understand why you think politicians are trying to stop you?! It's tin foil hat stuff! Do you expect the government to fund your holidays? Personally I'd rather the government focused on the necessary things - housing, schools, NHS, economy etc. Skiing holidays are about as good example of an unnecessary luxury as you get. The irony of this being that if you'd travelled a bit more (believe me not that hard - the powers to be/new world order/lizard people/flat earth society or whichever conspiracy nut on YouTube you watch are not stopping you) you'd see how for the vast majority of the world travel isn't even on their radar as they have real problems, not should I ski in France or Italy this year!
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The position is that life there is more or less like normal whereas over here it is nothing like normal
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Exactly, can't understand how people don't get it. We have a situation where 1000s of people are currently dying each day we can't see friends or family, and everything is closed/cancelled. If giving up foreign travel for the short term future means we can go back to something reflecting pre-covid normality it's an absolute no brainer. Simply to save lives, let alone for all the social and economic benefits.
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| Quote: |
Exactly, can't understand how people don't get it. We have a situation where 1000s of people are currently dying each day we can't see friends or family, and everything is closed/cancelled. If giving up foreign travel for the short term future means we can go back to something reflecting pre-covid normality it's an absolute no brainer. Simply to save lives, let alone for all the social and economic benefits. |
There is a fundamental problem with the notion that we should shut our borders for the foreseeable future in order to become 'covid zero'. Once we have closed the borders off to prevent novel strains that could evade the vaccine from entering the country, where do we go from there? At some point, unless we are deciding to shut ourselves off from the rest of the world for eternity, international travel will have to resume. At this point, we are back to square one. A 'zero covid' policy, consequentially, is just kicking the can down the road.
This virus will become endemic, and we need to get used to this idea. It will also eventually become endemic in Australia and New Zealand.
I am moreover sceptical about comparisons between Britain and Australia and New Zealand. Firstly, Britain is much more interconnected to the rest of the world than these countries. Secondly, the virulence of the virus has been proven to be affected by climatic factors. Covid hit Australia and New Zealand at their peak summer, and their winter is very different to ours.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@JackSkier, exactly. Closing borders in case of another strain appearing is following a precautionary policy which makes it almost impossible to re open them.
You basically have to prove the negative that another strain will not appear.
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Borders aren’t closed for oz and Nz citizens. There is mandatory quarantine in place. Costs about $3k to do a couple of weeks in a decent hotel on return, which needs to be pre booked. There’s a 3 month wait at the moment to get in one so it takes a bit of forward planning but I could get on a plane tomorrow and leave if I wanted to.
Borders are closed to non citizens unless an exemption is granted - the wiggles just got one
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