@Klammertime, to be fair I don’t think those Canadian 12 week courses represent good value for money anyway not when you consider you could get a place to stay for 3 months somewhere in the Alps and do a hell of a lot of skiing including all the things you’ve mentioned. I guess it depends on whether the OP wants to actually instruct or wants to become a good skier in which case there are better ways (and cheaper ways) of doing it IMO.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Is the aim of the 12 week course to pass CSIA L1 only or L1 and L2?
I thought it was L1 when I posted earlier on.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
You need to perfect the basics.
Turning (skid)
Carving (Edges)
Speed and control.
Balance.
@Klammertime, to be fair I don’t think those Canadian 12 week courses represent good value for money anyway not when you consider you could get a place to stay for 3 months somewhere in the Alps and do a hell of a lot of skiing including all the things you’ve mentioned. I guess it depends on whether the OP wants to actually instruct or wants to become a good skier in which case there are better ways (and cheaper ways) of doing it IMO.
That's one point that we as a forum pretty much universally agree on!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I'm fairly sure that the entry requirement for a course like that is going to be parents rich enough to fund it.
Did anyone here who has an instructor qualification actually start paying for
instructor training after only two weeks skiing experience? With your money or with mum and dad's?
well I'm sure this is a wee wee take - 44 replies and not a single response from @ski123, If he was worried before I'd think he is bricking it now. But I'm sure he will have fun all the same. Good Luck!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
philwig wrote:
Did anyone here who has an instructor qualification actually start paying for instructor training after only two weeks skiing experience? With your money or with mum and dad's?
Not me. More than 20 years I'd guess, totalling more than 100 weeks including quite a lot of good quality coaching before it was suggested that the instructor route might be a good idea to bring some structure (and lower costs) to my training. Didn't do a gap course, did the L1 in the December and the L2 in the February, then started on L3 in the May.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Charliee wrote:
well I'm sure this is a wee wee take - 44 replies and not a single response from @ski123,
Yep
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
My two sides to this coin.
The old joke what's the difference between someone who hasn't snowboarded before and an instructor ? 1 week!
During my season in Whistler there was a shortage of Snowboard instructors and an abundance on ski instructors. A friend, level 3 ski instructor decided to have a go a snowboarding one evening at night skiing. As a joke a group of us got together and enrolled her in the level 1 snowboard instructor course the next day - One week later she qualified at the top of her class, on admiting to her class mates and coaches after qualifying the fact she hadn't snowboarded before. She enede up teaching 7 days a week for the rest of the season!
The other side is the French (same applies in some other european systems), system. To get on the instructor course, one of the pre requesits is a timed slalom. The level required to pass is that of top 30, maybe top 20 of a FIS (the lowest level of real ski competition - world cup being the highest) race.... you can of course ski this step if you have good FIS points. The point of this is the instructor training is mostly about teaching, not personal performance.....apart form the bit about having to pass a GS test to qualify.....but if you passed the Slalom level this wont't be a major hurdle.
As someone with a handfull of profesional mountain qualifications including 2 minor ski teaching qualifications. I would prefer the world to work nearer the French system as opposed to the other end where you don't need much mountain time to go out and teach. I think if you are paying money for lessons, dosn't matter if it's your first time on snow, or better turns in the Couloir Cosmiques your teached should be a professional who knows waht they are doing and is commited to their craft. Not someone who thought it might be cool and doesn't want to invest their self whole hartedly in it.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@philwig, no not me. I had been skiing 3 weeks before I discovered BASI tuition and that made a big difference straight away a Eureka moment if you will. I guess it was early enough not to develop any particularly bad habits. I did the BASI L1 in a Snowdome after I’d skied about 9 weeks in total. Low level of experience compared to the rest on the course who had done seasons and stuff. Not sure how many I’d done before I had passed L2.
Seems a long time ago now as I didn’t pursue it, I did do the Mountain Safety module though as that was worth doing regardless.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
philwig wrote:
Did anyone here who has an instructor qualification actually start paying for
instructor training after only two weeks skiing experience? With your money or with mum and dad's?
I had done 28 days skiing in the mountains and about 350 hours indoors (spread over about 2 1/2 years) when I did (and passed..) my Level 1 exam (I actually did it in resort rather than in a fridge becasue I wanted more mountain time). I probably decided I was interested in doing it after about three weeks in the mountains and 150 hours indoors. I wasn't young, fit, sporty or brave, but I was reasonably focused and had had good tuition and a fair bit of practice in the months running up to it. (and yes, all my own money, lol). I actually hadn't planned to do it so soon, but took a private lesson to get a view and put an action plan together (thinking maybe do it in a year or two) but was told I might as well book it.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
dont think and analyse to much. Go there, to your best, enjoy every day and thats all.
I am jealous...(althouth i dont want to work as an instructor)
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Idris,
get your point about the investment in effort and a career rather than gap year thing, though starting out any career relying on the availability of snow doesn't seem like a good long term bet
The whole got to be an almost WC skier to be an instructructor seems a bit silly though - I've done a lot of instruction (not sure if you heard of a platinum pass when you were in Whistler, but I had one of those for a couple of seasons), and some of it by ex wc/Olympic skiers who were great, but also by many other instructors who weren't and were equally great.
Going a bit off topic, but making the criteria to instruct based on race performance seems very last century; why is the criteria not a perfect cork 1080, stomp a 50ft drop, or plan and pull off a multi-day hut trip? If you have to pick a skiing criteria in this century, why racing?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@stuarth, The French system does not require someone to be "an almost WC skier".
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@rjs,So what are the requirements of the Eurotest?
Not to say it is unique, for CSIA4 I believe there is a similar requirement.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
In terms of my own experience as someone who has very recently done a Level 1 course, i'd skied around 15/20 weeks prior the course over the space of about 15 years or so starting at the age of 13. About 1 week a year or so with the odd weekend or longer trip in there.
In the UK i've not done too much skiing prior to my course, probably half a dozen or so trips to a snow dome and similar amount to dry slopes.
I hadn't had tuition for a long time, although my trips in 2017, 2018 and 2019 were skiing with friends, one is BASI L2 and one has 1 element to do of his BASI L4, so they obviously helped with technique, but just hints and tips here and there. I did have a 2hr private lesson in 2020 with the specific idea of working on elements that would be assessed at a level 1 exam, longs and shorts.
I passed the level 1 with relative ease, I have always been quite in to the technique so have watched a lot of YouTube stuff and had read up on the manuals beforehand etc.
I have no doubt the OP can get through the course and pass their L1 exam, L2 might be a stretch, but it wouldn't be unthinkable. Level 3 I think is a much bigger step up though.
If they're doing this because they want to be an instructor, then fair enough, jump in at the deep end, it's not the most cost effective, but when you consider their starting point, it's not a bad idea, especially with the amount of tuition you get.
If they're doing this to just improve their skiing, this is definitely not the best option.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@stuarth, requirements for the Eurotest are to come within 18% of the set time for a male and 24% for females.
So if a course is c. 50 seconds long you get around an additional 9 seconds to complete this as a male.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@swskier,
And how easy do you think it is to be within 18% of some of the fastest skiers?
I've been in recreational races with ex-WC skiers - I'd be pretty happy with 50% to 100% off!
The eurotest doesn't exist anymore, it is now called the CTT and the pass times have changed to 19% and 25% respectively
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@stuarth, without a racing background it takes time, serious dedication, technical skill, physical strength and mental perseverance. It is a commendable achievement, but nowhere near being anything like almost WC
@skifluff,
The point is that it is seriously difficult to ski that fast, even for very good skiers.
I am lucky enough to ski a lot, and I have skied with people who are or have been at that level and they are clearly a very different level. I don't see what the relevance of comparing to this level is for the ability to teach skiing - like driving instructors having to compare themselves to Lewis Hamilton!
The other point is that though skiers who are outstanding freeride or freestyle skiers also probably did racing at some point, why is the requirement a single aspect of skiing (and one that arguably people care a lot less about), why does the skiing ability test not also include the ability to ski other disciplines such as freestyle and freeride, and also mountain craft - maybe there is a separate part for that?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
stuarth wrote:
and also mountain craft - maybe there is a separate part for that?
There is. European (now "International" in BASI) Mountain Safety, it's a training course followed by the requirement of at least 6 logged day tours and finally an assessment.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@stuarth, a fully qualified instructor is expected in many countries to be able to teach all levels of client's AND coach the race clubs. It requires this level.
The process of training for and passing of the elements that make up a L4/ brevet/staatliche qualification requires a development of the understanding of skiing that in turn helps the instructor in their teaching. This cannot be compensated for in my opinion.
The above qualifications include assessments in freestyle, freeride and mountain safety.
The race element is one objective test of their skill.
I do not think it should be a barrier to entry, but those instructors who are not fully qualified work under the authority and supervision of their ski school. They are in essence still trainees.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about the entry level instructor qualifications, either assuming they require an extremely high level of skiing ability to pass, or conversely that a Level 1 instructor is going to be qualified to teach experienced and high level recreational skiers. Neither is true. The ability level to pass is not especially high but you do need to ski accurately and consistently, without any of the usual ineffective movements that the vast majority of recreational skiers have no problem accommodating and ski with all the time. You can't rely on speed to mask your faults, you need to have a reasonable technical understanding of how skiing works, you should start to develop you motion analysis skills and have the teaching ability to guide a client from never-ever, through to their first skiddy parallel turns.
Exactly this. I took the Austrian Anwarter exam 26 years ago after doing 3 weeks of training. The only person who failed in our group was by far the best skier. He failed because he snowploughed like he was getting a blood wagon down the mountain.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
^@jellylegs
Yup.
Wind-up if @ski123 doesn’t make post no. 2 soon.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:
My worry is that I get out there without having skied for 2 years because of covid and realise I've forgotten all the progress I made and lost the confidence I gained last time
Well hopefully you’ve forgotten snowplough so that should be a huge benefit to your progression.
Ski schools just want you to parrot their playbook and follow their system (which usually starts with snowplough ). Just give them what they want til you get your badge.
Then when/if you start teaching, start with the vid below and follow Deb.
Almost any fit person can ski well in 2 consecutive weeks.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
stuarth wrote:
@skifluff,
The point is that it is seriously difficult to ski that fast, even for very good skiers.
I am lucky enough to ski a lot, and I have skied with people who are or have been at that level and they are clearly a very different level. I don't see what the relevance of comparing to this level is for the ability to teach skiing - like driving instructors having to compare themselves to Lewis Hamilton!
The other point is that though skiers who are outstanding freeride or freestyle skiers also probably did racing at some point, why is the requirement a single aspect of skiing (and one that arguably people care a lot less about), why does the skiing ability test not also include the ability to ski other disciplines such as freestyle and freeride, and also mountain craft - maybe there is a separate part for that?
I tried to do the LS1 3 years ago. 75% of us failed (including me). LS2, failure rate 95%. I'm 52, so was not surprised. The LS2 group were all earlier 20s. It's a bit like saying that to teach tennis you have to beat Andy Murray.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
It's a bit like saying that to teach tennis you have to beat Andy Murray.
You’ll have to get past his mum first
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
One of my daughters had a very nice Dutch instructor in Austria some years ago. We bumped in to their group one afternoon and they were having a great time. The instructor fell over on a tricky bit, got up, carried on and we carried on with our afternoon... I asked my daughter if the instructor had bought the group chocolate for the fall? She laughed and said 'no, she falls over all the time!'.
Whatever, my daughter had a great week; covered lots of miles, built confidence, ate her own body weight in gummy bears, improved her skiing and came away with a smile. Kids instructors are better when they get on with the kids; and so are the grown up ones too, probably.
If the OP, real or not, wants to feed sweets to kids and help them enjoy their holiday whilst drinking enough shots to kill a horse and pick up a mild but persistent fungal disease, then who am I to stand in their way?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Little Martin wrote:
Think I was probably 4 weeks + inside out instructors course before I became an instructor, little over a year from putting skis on first time to instructing.
That's impressive.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@AL9000, snowploughs are really useful. Watch any pisteur with a bloodwagon.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@under a new name, Sure, but not for beginners IMHO; completely scr*ws up their form.
I bet you see it everywhere you ski….blame the training systems. If I were a cynic, I’d say it was by design.
Every beginner should start with Deb’s video above - she gets it.
@skifluff,
The point is that it is seriously difficult to ski that fast, even for very good skiers. I don't see what the relevance of comparing to this level is for the ability to teach skiing - like driving instructors having to compare themselves to Lewis Hamilton!
Good point! Do all those who meet the criteria think it's totally relevant and appropriate? Or are there some who admit it's OTT? (even though they passed the test themselves).
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
A thread tangent, but...
under a new name wrote:
... snowploughs are really useful. Watch any pisteur with a bloodwagon.
That's commonly said, but perhaps no so commonly thought through.
Training beginner skiers as if they were pisteurs or guides is clearly daft as almost none of them will ever pull a toboggan.
Do they also train them on day 1 to administer morphine and arrange for heli evac?
And of course competent snowboarders manage very well without snowploughing, so "useful" or not, it's not necessary.
To me it seemed a very strange thing to be taught. As an athlete I just treated it as a wasted hour before we got on to learning how to ski.
I do remember gritting my teeth at them and thinking: "I want to ski like a skier, not a snowplougher".
Oh you wacky skiers - always so obsessed with collecting the little badges.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Richard_Sideways,
After all it is free
After all it is free
AL9000 wrote:
@under a new name, Sure, but not for beginners IMHO; completely scr*ws up their form.
I bet you see it everywhere you ski….blame the training systems. If I were a cynic, I’d say it was by design.
Every beginner should start with Deb’s video above - she gets it.
The problem isn't having the snowplough in the progression - it's when the lesson ends at snowplough and isn't picked up again or when the progression isn't put in context.
It's a bit like doing crane/stork drills - beginners need to know that they shouldn't be skiing like that for ever but it is a temporary "drill" to develop rotation and edging skills and the first ideas of shaping a turn.
I suspect that for too many learners in their mind the progression is first we learn snowplough then we forget about snowplough and learn parallel. It isn't it's all one thing but as the first thing people learn it sticks in their heads.
Plus as previously stated it still comes in handy in many places from lift lines to narrow rat runs in drainages - it's just when you use it you realise how incredibly inefficent and tiring it is as a form of speed control which is why developing skiers shouldn't really be dependent on it outside of the bunny slope.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
realise how incredibly inefficent and tiring it is as a form of speed control
+1
It’s downright dangerous if that’s all they know.
I’m surprised ski systems haven’t adapted since the advent of parabolic skis.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
The movement patterns you develop in a good snowplough are fundamental to all the skiing you ever do. If you can't master those movements when skiing slowly and with the added balance of a wider stance, what hope do you have of making those movements when the going gets a bit tougher...
Some of the best sessions I've taught have used snowploughs and plough-parallel turns to improve the movement patterns of experienced recreational skiers. The same problems they have when making a plough turn are usually manifest in their performance skiing, so addressing that weakness in slow speed can be a powerful way to change. Anyone ever see ski racers using plough and plough-parallel turns as an activation drill?
A lot of people suggest that snowploughs are not proper skiing, somehow separate from what real skiers do. I fundamentally disagree with that.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
). Just give them what they want til you get your badge.
