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Inghams accommodation annoyance

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi Snowheads, first time poster long term lurker. Just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience to the following and if so, how it was resolved?

Inghams have just informed us that our hotel HB accommodation (Hotel Au Charmant Petit Lac, Champoluc) has now stopped providing evening meals within the hotel, but rather at their Bistro along the road. When we booked there was a choice of eating within the hotel (which was our preference), at the bistro or in an on-mountain restaurant.

If it was a budget holiday we wouldn’t be so bothered, but we splurged on a 5* hotel with great spa facilities and gourmet food. We want the off-slope experience to be as relaxing as possible and as would be expected in HB hotel accommodation thought we’d be able to wander straight from the hotel bar to the restaurant. Don’t get me wrong we’re not adverse to eating out but wanted something more convenient/relaxing for this holiday, otherwise we would have booked self-catering or B&B.

Inghams say to eat at the hotel restaurant we have to book directly with the hotel, we’ll get a 45 euro voucher to pay towards the meal, but this doesn’t cover the cost of two courses let alone three.

It seems the hotel is trying to make extra money by putting hotel (tour operator?) guests into the Bistro, therefore leaving hotel tables free for walk in customers. It wouldn’t be so bad if Inghams had offered a voucher covering the full cost of hotel meals or a discount for the inconvenience.

We've told Inghams that this is not acceptable and are awaiting feedback. Sorry for the rant, I know to some it might seem petty, just frustrated as we were really excited about the holiday after such a long and stressful period without our snow fix and it's kind of taken the shine off it.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Can’t help with your dilemma but have stayed at HACPL and the food was great with lots of locally sourced produce.
Bistro - upstairs or downstairs? Downstairs dining space/cave was also good food, upstairs is the bar: same kitchen I’d imagine but not a 5* dining experience.
Push for HACPL dining.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
TO's can make changes to packages, as well as put the prices up if you read the T&C's.
You either cancel & look elsewhere, or you swallow it.
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Mr.Egg wrote:
TO's can make changes to packages, as well as put the prices up if you read the T&C's.
You either cancel & look elsewhere, or you swallow it.

That would be true if the hotel had stopped offering evening meals, so outside Inghams' control. But it hasn't. If dinner in the hotel was originally offered then it comes across as a 'bait and switch' operation.
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Thanks for your responses. It's downstairs at the Bistro, I expect the food will be decent, but like you say not as good as the hotel. It would be an easier pill to swallow if it wasn't so expensive, my frustration levels tend to increase exponentially with cost. Never experienced a HB hotel before where they put you in another restaurant, maybe it's more common than I imagined. If we had known before booking we would have picked one of the alternative hotels in the area. One of the party is pushing for cancelling, we'll see what Inghams say, here's hoping.

I understand that things change, but I would have thought they shouldn't be able to charge the same cost for lower standard? I was under the presumption that for instance if accommodation becomes unavailable, the replacement is usually of same or higher standard, but I'm possibly naïve or too trusting Blush .
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It’s def worth pushing back on this with Inghams. We stayed at the Hotel du Golf in Les Arcs a few years ago before it became a belhambra hotel. We were sold it on the basis of 3 restaurants to choose but in reality we only got the buffet one (absolutely hate buffet) plus one other on 2 occasions. We did have another small issue but we really pushed it & got a decent refund as we didn’t get what they’d advertised & the reason we’d booked in to such a large hotel. Even if it’s out of their control, which it clearly is you aren’t getting what you booked (& was such an integral reason for booking).
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It was a while ago now, but a HB hotel we were booked into was sold to Club Med. I think we booked with Crystal. We got the whole Club Med hotel experience for the same cost, with the exception of the ski lessons, which we had already booked and paid for anyway. We were even offered a change of hotel if it didn't suit us.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
ecureuil wrote:

That would be true if the hotel had stopped offering evening meals, so outside Inghams' control. But it hasn't. If dinner in the hotel was originally offered then it comes across as a 'bait and switch' operation.

Exactly this.
You have a contract with the TO.
The TO may change the terms of the contract, but ONLY if you agree to it.
Even of the T&C (to which you have agreed) say they can change the price / service supplied etc... They are on sticky ground, as the contract has to be fair, and where one party seeks to make unilateral changes which devalue the offering (unless there are very exceptional circumstances), this cannot be enforced.
If the restaurant is open, and this is what they sold you, then this is the service they should to supply to you.
I would politely advise them, that you will be dining in the restaurant as this is what you have booked and paid for, suggest that they make the hotel and restaurant staff aware of this to avoid any unnecessary friction during your stay.
You can offer them away out whereby if they do not wish to honour the agreement they may provide meal vouchers, but these must be of a value equal to greater than the cost of the meal in the restaurant - say €100 pp per night.
This gives room for some negotiation down to €75-80 pp, which is probably what it would cost.
Definitely push back the €45.
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Quote:

If we had known before booking we would have picked one of the alternative hotels in the area.

It's probably worth asking Inghams to switch you to one of those alternative hotels. Check availability first on their website so you know whether or not they are trying to fob you off with a 'everywhere else is full' line. They would rather switch you than lose the booking.
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Thanks WindofChange, that's great advice, we'll try that tactic. Dode, I started looking at alternatives yesterday but things are being booked up thick and fast. Hopefully we'll get an acceptable resolution with HACPL as it does look like a great place. Not as great access to the slopes but we decided to sacrifice that for somewhere a bit fancier with great facilities, maybe that was our mistake, we've angered the snow gods Very Happy.
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To be honest sounds like the hotel have switched it up on Inghams effectively saying to them - you are low margin business for us so we'd rather keep resto capacity for higher paying guests. But you can help Inghams grow a backbone or make it expensive for them. Unfortunately they hold most of the cards and can probably still cancel you at will if you get their backs up too far.
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"..When it comes to dinner you'll be well taken care of with the hotel's new dining experience, giving you a choice of what and where to eat with three separate locations including in the hotel, at the hotel owners own Bistro close by or on the mountain at Vieux Crest. Whatever you decide, its all included in the cost..."

This from Inghams website today -- quite clear that YOU get the choice of were to eat..

I would suggest the OP takes a snap shot of the page....

https://www.inghams.co.uk/ski-holidays/ski-resorts/italy/champoluc/hotel-au-charmant-petit-lac

==== edit ==

But this appears on the booking page Sad
=
=
"Guests for Winter 2021/22 on half board will dine in the evening at Lo Bistrot, the hotels second restaurant located 100 meters from the hotel. The hotels main restaurant will not be available during your stay. There will be a set menu seperate of the restaurants a la carte menu"
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Thanks albob, I've already taken a screen capture. Hmmm, so the booking page has now been updated. When we originally booked we had the choice of eating at the hotel restaurant, which we were planning most evenings. Inghams sent an email yesterday with the new arrangements, we were not given an option. Here is what they said:

"We have been informed by Au Charmant Petit Lac, Champoluc that the evening meal will now be taken at their Brasserie ‘Lo Bistro’. The restaurant is approximately 100m away, it is located on the main road and the dinner is served down stairs in a beautiful elegant and traditional atmosphere. Included in your booking is a 3 course evening meal, however you now have the option of upgrading this to 4 courses (payable locally).
If you would like to dine In hotels restaurant gourmet RESTO TATA’ this must be pre booked and can only be booked locally with the hotel. A €45 voucher will be given locally to you to go towards your meal."
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I've just had a look at Champoluc on Google st view -- Lo Bistro seems a lot further away than 100 metres (only a couple of minutes tho')
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Was really wanting most meals at the hotel. I've a chronic hip/pelvis injury that can be aggravated by walking, not always, it's a bit hit and miss. I know ~100 m isn't far but with walking to and from lifts etc, I'd rather minimise the risk. Being strapped to my board doesn't seem to cause a problem with my injury (sorry, we're boarders, please don't hate us Very Happy ) and strangely up and down hills doesn't affect it as much as on the flat.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If I had splurged on a 5* hotel I wouldn't be wanting to walk to an alternative restaurant each evening. I would book a hotel so I didn't have to wrap up and go out in the cold each time. It isn't an uncommon occurence to do so in Italy, but it is usually when you stay in their annexe, and you go to the main hotel for dinner.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I had a problem with a tour operator once. I could not get a reasonable offer of compensation for the problem from the tour operator, so I joined holiday which? They offered free legal advice, which extended to negotiating with the tour operator and drafting a small claims court summary.

The changes they made to the holiday were not advised until we were in resort, and were not acceptable. So after 3 days, we went home on one of their flights.

They settled out of court (the day before the court hearing, 30 miles from their HQ), for about 2x holiday cost + cost of hire car non refunded.

The best offer I could get out of them before threatening court action was not even a full refund. They printed a picture of me in holiday which magazine, and a description of the debacle.

In those days the maximum in the small claims court was about £3,000 which was applied for in full.

You have been advised before travel of changes, and been made an offer. If you travel and take the offer, it will be taken as acceptance of the offer.

It depends whether you value the skiing holiday more than the changes they have made. You really will have to decide whether to suck it up and never use a tour operator again, or to cancel the holiday and take them to court. You might get a better offer if you try to negotiate, but you have to be prepared to walk away completely to get a better offer from the tour operator.

For me I would just say it is part of going with a tour operator. You have to take the good with the bad. People who want 5 star treatment do not book via a tour operator who will treat you like cattle at the airport. rolling eyes

ps. Incidentally why did you book via a tour operator? One of the potential issues which when mentioned to the tour operator seemed to have an effect, was questioning on whether they had paid the deposit with the hotel. Often tour operators do not pay the hotel the deposits, and so are not treated the same as those going directly to the hotel. The tour operators leverage the client and the hotels by obtaining credit from both in order to fund their balance sheets out of thin air. (note I do not reference snowbashes in this regard I have no knowledge of how they operate: and tour operators may differ in practice, but it might be worth asking the question)

I went on holiday skiing with tour operators after this experience, but by then my expectations of tour operators were lower and so I was not disappointed.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 9-11-21 13:49; edited 1 time in total
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Crikey Bigtripper, sounds like an awful experience.

We don't always use tour operators, we also DIY, we opted to use a tour operator for ease of cancelation if travel was restricted, thought it would be less stressful rolling eyes. We've been with Inghams once before which was a great experience. We usually use Crystal, who for the most part have been good. We've been to a few high end hotels with Crystal (usually choose the cheapest week in Jan to keep costs down) and had good service, surely it's not to much to ask? Don't actually mind being treated as cattle at the airport, we're more worried about the accommodation being 5* (as advertised).

Hells Bells, thanks. Yup, we wouldn't mind if we were staying in an annexe, we've done this before and it would be expected.
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It looks like this hotel is not 5 star.
Meeting clients needs makes it 5 star. It’s concerning as this year is the first time in 30 years I have booked holidays with tour operators. Inghams and Crystal. I stopped because I wanted to only pay at the end of the holiday, and had the financial power so to speak if we were messed around.
I have my fingers firmly crossed and I don’t like the feeling!
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@Heather, what (it seems?) you are saying is that if you diy and book the hotel directly the experience might have been different.

Tour operators get discounts, credit, commission from hotels, so hotels have a smaller margin with those clients.

Not sure that tour operators have the same clout post covid, particularly since their balance sheets (and volume) might be stretched.
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Twoodwar, agree about service, can turn a 2* into 5* and vice versa. Doesn't give me a very pleasant feeling about the hotel (it does get good reviews, albeit few as it's fairly new), to be fair we haven't heard the hotels side of the story, although my suspicions are they want to keep the tables free for outside bookings, which isn't great service to hotel customers, regardless of how they booked.

You'll probably be alright Twoodwar, never had a problem with TO's before, but maybe we've been lucky up to now. Fingers crossed for you!
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Inghams (the tour operator) is owned by a large Swiss supermarket group and retailer called Migros who appear to have had quite a good year in 2020.

Therefore, there should not be a balance sheet issue there.
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Bigtipper wrote:
Inghams (the tour operator) is owned by a large Swiss supermarket group and retailer called Migros who appear to have had quite a good year in 2020.

Therefore, there should not be a balance sheet issue there.


Surely that is parent company - that doesn't mean that each of the holdings will have preformed well - and while they may have the cash to support individual holdings from collapsing - they will still want to maximize profits out of each holding - these are businesses after all with shareholders (Coops in Migros's case) that will want return on investments - these are not not-for profits - one just needs to look up Sorgim to understand the position
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I reckon the TO has driven down the hotel room rate far enough that the hotel now has to make savings elsewhere to turn a profit. But the mechanisms of how we got here are pretty irrelevant now.

@Heather, I sympathise with your position, as @Hells Bells, says, you don't really want to be getting wrapped up to walk along the road for your dinner. More importantly, it makes taking your last glass of wine up to your room more awkward wink I still think giving them a call to say you are unhappy with the change and see if they can offer an alternative or a reduction in costs would be the logical first step.

Have you paid in full, or just paid the deposit? This might affect your bargaining power.
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@barracuda, Inghams will be a small company in relation to Migros. They will look to make profits long term, but they have the balance sheet and substantial profits from elsewhere to support a small company in difficult times. Particularly when the sector may see some fragmentation, consolidation, and exits.

The parent company has substantial ability to support the subsidiary in times of need.
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This is Snowheads at its best - comparing experiences and trying to help each other. I have used Inghams a few times as well as their sister companies Esprit and Ski Total. They have always responded well to the few complaints I have made. I would certainly feel very aggrieved by Heather's experience. I always prefer to eat in the same building after a hard day's skiing and if that was what I had booked I would keep fighting to get it or an acceptable alternative hotel.
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It’s pretty easy to compare the hotels direct rates on Booking.com or just direct on their website. Unless it’s much cheaper (in which case perhaps a direct booking is an option - call the hotel direct and explain the situation?) Why not just take the voucher and eat in the hotel restaurant? €45 should get you a decent feed no?
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@BobinCH, the OP advises that the offered €45, won’t cover two courses, let alone the three courses she understood she was booking as part of the package.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Heather, I haven't used Inghams for many years but had a good experience with them when I did. I would not be happy if I were in your situation as it appears they have changed the terms since you booked without offering a discount for the less convenient restaurant. I can appreciate that they were probably put in this situation by the hotel changing its terms but even so they need to give you alternatives now that the specific holiday you booked is not available.

I would have another search on their site and pick a different hotel that meets your requirements.

I don't know Champoluc but can recommend this hotel in Les Arcs which is 5 star. We have not actually stayed in it but have been to the bar and used the pool/spa etc and it is very nice indeed and well located right on the piste.

https://www.inghams.co.uk/ski-holidays/ski-resorts/france/paradiski-ski-area/les-arcs/hotel-taj-i-mah-arc-2000
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Thanks dode, they informed us about a week after we had paid in full, we'll just have to wonder if this was coincidental or strategic.

Thanks snowymum, we were keen on Italy as haven't been for a while, but I'll have a look and check with the group.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Is it 45 euro each? - works out at 6.42 euro per night ; doubt that would cover the extra cost demanded by the Hotel. Perhaps with a bit on negotiation Inghams would be able to up their offer...

=======

"..they informed us about a week after we had paid in full.."

Crystal did this to me two years ago when the changed my flight destination...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Montan wrote:
@BobinCH, the OP advises that the offered €45, won’t cover two courses, let alone the three courses she understood she was booking as part of the package.


If I ate 3 courses a night for 7 nights I wouldn’t be able to get in my ski pants by the end of the week!

How many courses do you need? €45 euros goes a fair way in Italy IME. If you end up spending another €15 a night on a large slab of Tiramisu that’s €100 for the week. Small change on what must be a £1500 holiday.

Why stress over it? Just go and enjoy it. Life’s too short.
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@BobinCH, the hotel restaurant menu suggests they have a set/tasting menu of 70€ and an a la carte at around 24€ per course with desserts at least 12€. Doesn't look like hearty Italian cuisine either. More fine dining. I suspect they would have also had a fixe prix maybe of around 45€ a head for half-board guests on packages?
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Hells Bells wrote:
@BobinCH, the hotel restaurant menu suggests they have a set/tasting menu of 70€ and an a la carte at around 24€ per course with desserts at least 12€. Doesn't look like hearty Italian cuisine either. More fine dining. I suspect they would have also had a fixe prix maybe of around 45€ a head for half-board guests on packages?


Ok ask Inghams to up the voucher but if they won’t I just wouldn’t let it spoil a holiday I was really looking forward to
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I think the OP’s point, and disappointment, is that the food and dining experience was a large part of why this hotel was chosen, leading her to pay more than she usually would; it’s been selected, and booked, as a treat. If she’d known she’d have to get wrapped up and walk to another establishment for dinner each evening, she likely would have booked elsewhere. I can quite understand her annoyance, particularly as it is now being presented as a fait accompli. @Heather, good luck with Inghams, and with getting back what you chose, booked and paid for.
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Given your comments I would look for alternative accommodation. I don't mind the odd night out but a lot of the time being able to just walk down to dinner after a day on the slopes is very nice. I wouldn't want to have to wrap up and get all the snow stuff on every night just to get dinner.
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On Sunday I bought 2.5 sandwiches and 2 soft drinks from Subway in Montreux.
This came to 45.70 CHF - to give some context.
Bear in mind this is a takeaway sandwich shop, not a fine dining restaurant in a 5* hotel in a ski resort.
SOX allows up to 250 dollars for a meal if you take out a client, and our corporate T&E rates allow 90 Euro unless you go to Norway or Switzerland (where its 120).
90-100 Euro seems about right for 3 courses, 2 glasses of wine and a coffee.
You'd be lucky go get an insalata miste & cotoletta alla milanese for 45 Euros, so you can forget about tiramsu, a glass of chianti, an espresso and grappa.
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@Hells Bells & @Heather - we had the tasting menu when we stayed there in Jan 2020 and it was fantastic, not at all mealy-mouthed, in fact it was diverse and not mere spoonfuls of pea fondant, extremely filling and we took numerous doggy bags back to our room. The dog who was staying with us (and who was allowed in the restaurant for meals) was very happy. We ate out some evenings (once at Lo Bistro which was very good but a notch below HACPL dining) and, pre-Covid, there was a good selection of other fine dining options, the best of which was Il Balivo - though that’s a long walk from your hotel).
I liked @WindOfChange’s bullet point approach.
I’d have thought that eur45 pppn was very adequate for HACPL dining - not to say that you shouldn’t press for better.
Good luck - at the very least there are great pre-dinner relaxation spaces

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Thanks Montan, yes the accommodation is supposed to be a treat, including the food. I don’t see why we should pay a supplement to eat in the hotel, which, after all was initially agreed and paid for. If we had been made aware of this before booking we would have gone somewhere else. We’re now firmly in the ‘grey on a tray’ category and I find with age I just want to chill out in the evenings after a hard day on the slopes. That’s chill out in the relaxing sense, not freeze outside in the cold, unless a sauna or hot tub is involved Eh oh! .

Inghams have come back to us, they say that Covid had forced a number of changes in many of their hotels. “The decision made by the hotel not to offer HB in the hotel is due to them trying to reduce large crowds in their limited size dining area – their Brasserie is much bigger”.

Why is this plan of action only been considered now, after all they’ve had over a year to apply appropriate Covid policies? Surely staggering meals helps with crowd control, there are only 26 rooms after all. Also, they could rotate hotel guests between the hotel, bistro and mountain restaurant, at least then it could become an experience and we wouldn’t feel ripped-off.

If this policy is purely safety driven, then I’d like to know why they haven’t closed the restaurant and we can still eat there if we pay a supplement. Also, what about breakfast, surely, it’s the same crowds? Maybe we’re expected to eat outside at a trough Eh oh! .

I’ve never been to either the hotel restaurant or bistro, so can only comment on what I can see in pictures. It doesn’t appear that downstairs in the bistro is particularly larger than the hotel restaurant, but the pictures might be deceiving, maybe Grinning can advise as has been to both? They should probably remove the grand piano and make room for more dining tables, I’d find eating in the hotel more relaxing than the gentle wafting notes of piano music as we trudge out into the cold Eh oh! .

Anyway, we’ve told Inghams it’s unacceptable, we’ll see what they say and call them if we have to.
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