 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi there 
I had around 60 ski days in the past 3 years and now I feel very comfortable on piste on any conditions and this season I want to try off-piste.
I'll book a course for January(probably Verbier) and as I already have my own boots and piste ski, I'm planning to buy new skis for powder.
At a first glance, I was really interested in the Fischer Ranger 102 (https://www.fischersports.com/ranger-102-fr-2398), heard great things about this one and it looks nice for a first powder ski.
I heard this one can also be very good on-piste, but to be honest, I already have my Elan Amphibio 18ti2 (73mm waist) for piste and I love it, I don't really need to sacrifice powder performance on my fat ski to be on-piste capable, I don't mind travelling with 2 skis.
Do you think this would be a nice one or should I go wider? I am a powerful skier, 1.78m tall and almost 100kg but not really fat, I like to hit the gym 
Because of my weight, should I go wider? Something in the 110 width range?
Also, as I'm not worried about on-piste performance, should I focus on wooden skis instead of titanium ones?
As I said, I'm not a beginner skier anymore but I have never skied powder, so going for a very experienced fat ski may also not be the best fit, I guess something more playful is the way to go.
What do you guys think? I also considered Head Kore 105 or 111.
Any recommendations?
Cheers!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 23-09-21 8:45; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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102 isn't a modern powder ski for a full sized male. It'll be fine to get you started but longer term you'll probably want something wider. Just pester @adithorp a lot by pm. He's got some nice DPS that he probably won't be up to using 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@AndreSilva,
1. wot @dotm wrote. I ski a 98mm as my daily driver on or off piste. You probably want to go wider.
2. That said, how often do you really get the opportunity to ski real powder in Europe? You line in the Netherlands right? Presumably you can't just decide the night before that you're going to be on the first tram the next morning? Is owning a relatively compromised ski worth it?
3. Forget about materials, construction, geometry. You're planning a week's course. Rent. (It'll probs be somewhere with good rentals), ask instructors' advice, swap around, buy what you actually like skiing on.
4. Colour. Do not buy the wrong colour. Make sure the bindings co-ordinate. Colour is key.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@AndreSilva,
1. wot @dotm wrote. I ski a 98mm as my daily driver on or off piste. You probably want to go wider.
2. That said, how often do you really get the opportunity to ski real powder in Europe? You line in the Netherlands right? Presumably you can't just decide the night before that you're going to be on the first tram the next morning? Is owning a relatively compromised ski worth it?
3. Forget about materials, construction, geometry. You're planning a week's course. Rent. (It'll probs be somewhere with good rentals), ask instructors' advice, swap around, buy what you actually like skiing on.
4. Colour. Do not buy the wrong colour. Make sure the bindings co-ordinate. Colour is key.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@AndreSilva, DPS Wailer 112. Will make you ski like a God.
In Verbier you can rent them on the hill at Ski Service.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Zernatt ski test, try as many as you can, then decide if worth buying or just renting on occasion
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@mooney058, not necessarily super handy from NL ?
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@under a new name, did it from Belgium - used to be loads of flights to Geneve, hop on a train and on to Zermatt. Did Friday morning to late Sunday, all worked very well.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| mooney058 wrote: |
| @under a new name, did it from Belgium - used to be loads of flights to Geneve, hop on a train and on to Zermatt. Did Friday morning to late Sunday, all worked very well. |
To be honest I do those long weekends quite a lot. If I have someone with me, usually I drive from NL on Thursday around 16h and come back Sunday evening.
There is also a bus that picks me up in Eindhoven on a Thursday night and come back Sunday night, I sleep in the bus thoughout the night and it costs around 130 euros only 
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 23-09-21 8:59; edited 2 times in total
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| under a new name wrote: |
2. That said, how often do you really get the opportunity to ski real powder in Europe? You line in the Netherlands right? Presumably you can't just decide the night before that you're going to be on the first tram the next morning? Is owning a relatively compromised ski worth it?
3. Forget about materials, construction, geometry. You're planning a week's course. Rent. (It'll probs be somewhere with good rentals), ask instructors' advice, swap around, buy what you actually like skiing on. |
I agree that in general, when not living in the alps I will not get that beautiful fluffy Japan like powder in Europe... but I like to have my own skis. Usually, I ski 20-30 days a year, rent would be more expensive especially considering that most of my trips are by car, so no need to pay extra for dispatching the skis. And it is not only for the money, I like to be consistent and always having the same equipament.
Although maybe for the first time in the course I'm thinking about renting... then I can even swap with some friend to test theirs and then buy the one I liked most
| under a new name wrote: |
| 4. Colour. Do not buy the wrong colour. Make sure the bindings co-ordinate. Colour is key. |
Didn't know the colour was so important... maybe I should change my boots to colour match as well!
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Thu 23-09-21 9:07; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
@AndreSilva, DPS Wailer 112. Will make you ski like a God.
In Verbier you can rent them on the hill at Ski Service. |
Those ones seem very nice, maybe renting for the course is not a bad idea.
Although, if I like them I will have a problem because they are quite expensive ones
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Im a similar size to you and I ski on a Dynastar Legend 96. Absolutely love em... They are very similar to the DPS skis mentioned in that they have 5 point rocker and a fairly traditional camber. I prefer a slightly narrower ski than most would recommend as my knees are trashed and anything wider causes me pain when skiing hard snow and on on piste.
I think the key for you is to make sure you get a flat ski that you can mount good bindings to and stick with a more traditional camber, highly rocketed skis won't give you enough edge engagement when skiing on ice
Dont know the Fischers but I also would suggest a stiffer ski with Ti at your weight
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| AndreSilva wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
@AndreSilva, DPS Wailer 112. Will make you ski like a God.
In Verbier you can rent them on the hill at Ski Service. |
Those ones seem very nice, maybe renting for the course is not a bad idea.
Although, if I like them I will have a problem because they are quite expensive ones |
If you’re in Verbier (and the conditions are good) I have a few pairs of DPS skis you can try out. Once you try the Spoons no ski will ever match up…
But yes, it’s an expensive fix. They are generally well made so 2nd hand is a good option.
Also have some Blizzard Rustler 11’s (114mm) with Shifts which will work in Freeride boots
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@AndreSilva, I realise you are based in NL, but I would have a word with Jon at The Piste Office.
He is an independent retailer who has extensive knowledge of pretty much all the skis on the market. He is likely to have supplied or at least mounted and worked on all the skis that you have considered or are having suggested to you.
My thoughts: As all have said go wider than 102 if you want a ski for 3D snow. If you ski mainly in Europe (as opposed to Japan or Utah etc) and weigh circa 100kg I personally think the DPS offering would not be ideal. You want a ski for European off piste and that means the ability to handle crud, breakable crust, etc, so at 100kg I would go for a European brand who design their skis for that, ie a bit burlier.
Google Piste Office, speak to Jon, even if he doesn't end up sorting you out you will get decent helpful insights.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@BobinCH, I'm just about to buy some powder skis, and have been considering the DPS Wailer 112.
Do you know how these would fare in non-optimal off piste conditions? At the moment, I ski a Volkl mantra, which is excellent for cutting through crud. I just wondered whether the DPS Wailers would be able to do this too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oh, and just one more thought (after reading @BobinCH's post above):
You need to balance a ski that's burly enough for your weight, but not so hard core it puts you off. So you want a ski that's construction is 'solid' but who's design is 'playful' (that's the best way I can think to put it into words).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@midgetbiker, I’m not far short of 100kg and DPS are plenty of ski. Went to them after a few years of skiing burly off piste skis with lots of metal and it was a blessed relief most of the time
Haven’t tried DPS tour construction so this comment applies to their standard construction
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I have few pairs of powder/touring skis ranging from 86mm for spring touring and steep stuff, to 125mm for big powder days. Sure if conditions are great, there's nothing better then those Rossi Super7 RD, but at least around here (Slovenia, south/central Austria) conditions that 125 would be really required and would be way better then let's say 105, are so seldom that I would say it's not really worth bothering. Even on good winter (minus those few exceptional days here and there), some 80% of my skiing is on 105mm skis. Main thing is really not those few mm more or less but shape of ski and length (and mount point ). I can't comment on weight, as I'm "only" 75kg (at 181cm), so I don't know how things would be for 25kg more, but I would say you would still be perfectly fine with something around 105mm.
As for mixing with piste, no matter what people say, powder or "powder" skis on piste just don't work. Yeah sure, I'm used to FIS race skis, which means around 65mm underfoot, and then comparing how those skis ski compared to something like 105mm is not fair. But if you are happy to travel with piste skis and powder skis, then absolutely go for 2 pairs. It so much better that it's worth doing it, especially because then you can have proper piste ski and proper powder ski and not something that sort of works everywhere but it's never great in anything.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| 102 isn't a modern powder ski for a full sized male. It'll be fine to get you started but longer term you'll probably want something wider. Just pester @adithorp a lot by pm. He's got some nice DPS that he probably won't be up to using |
Thanks for the plug. The DPS are staying for now but the 108cl Rangers with framebindings are available.
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| primoz wrote: |
| As for mixing with piste, no matter what people say, powder or "powder" skis on piste just don't work. Yeah sure, I'm used to FIS race skis, which means around 65mm underfoot, and then comparing how those skis ski compared to something like 105mm is not fair. But if you are happy to travel with piste skis and powder skis, then absolutely go for 2 pairs. It so much better that it's worth doing it, especially because then you can have proper piste ski and proper powder ski and not something that sort of works everywhere but it's never great in anything. |
I agree!
Most of my trips are by car or bus, to be honest I have never got a flight to go ski, always think that the hassle is too much to dispatch and still have to get a bus transfer, with my car takes from 10h to 12h to Austria/France and there is no problem at all to bring 2 skis
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
My thoughts: As all have said go wider than 102 if you want a ski for 3D snow. If you ski mainly in Europe (as opposed to Japan or Utah etc) and weigh circa 100kg I personally think the DPS offering would not be ideal. You want a ski for European off piste and that means the ability to handle crud, breakable crust, etc, so at 100kg I would go for a European brand who design their skis for that, ie a bit burlier.
Google Piste Office, speak to Jon, even if he doesn't end up sorting you out you will get decent helpful insights. |
IME for breakable crust you don’t want a burlier ski, you want a softer, more rockered ski that keeps your tips above the crust and makes turning easier. Turning in crust is damn hard! I have never skied an easier to turn pow ski than the DPS wailer 112 hybrid/foundation - it is the perfect beginner/intermediate powder ski because it is so easy to ski and will make you feel like a champion. On the other hand in chopped up snow, and firmer conditions and when you start skiing faster and taking more committed lines, you want a burlier ski that does not get deflected so easily. In DPS you have the Pure/Alchemist/Pagoda for that.
Jon is great and I’ve bought skis and bindings from him but he doesn’t stock DPS.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm only 76kg and find the Nordica Enforcer Free in 104mm to be a fantastic piste and off piste ski. It's got a little more rocker than the standard Enforcer range so is more geared up towards off piste. For powder the Bent Chetlers in 120mm are my go to but they are tiring if you end up doing a lot of piste skiing. For a fat ski they are extremely nimble in the forests.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Turning in crust is damn hard! I have never skied an easier to turn pow ski than the DPS wailer 112 hybrid/foundation - it is the perfect beginner/intermediate powder ski because it is so easy to ski and will make you feel like a champion. |
Thanks for the tips!
By the things you wrote, I would guess you have A LOT of experience with powder right ? So if that is a good ski for you, I wonder if for someone like me(that have never skied powder ever) would really be a suitable ski?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| I'm only 76kg and find the Nordica Enforcer Free in 104mm to be a fantastic piste and off piste ski. It's got a little more rocker than the standard Enforcer range so is more geared up towards off piste. For powder the Bent Chetlers in 120mm are my go to but they are tiring if you end up doing a lot of piste skiing. For a fat ski they are extremely nimble in the forests. |
Do you think the Bent Chetler is good enough for European style powder? Isn't it too wide? Sounds like a ski for Japan-like powder, when you have that very soft snow many meters deep.
I guess how much technique you have also counts a lot in this case
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I find them fine, a very versatile ski but I live out in the Austrian Alps so have a choice of skis. If I only had one pair I'd go for the Enforcers. But one winter I clocked up about 40 days on the Bents.
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| AndreSilva wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Turning in crust is damn hard! I have never skied an easier to turn pow ski than the DPS wailer 112 hybrid/foundation - it is the perfect beginner/intermediate powder ski because it is so easy to ski and will make you feel like a champion. |
Thanks for the tips!
By the things you wrote, I would guess you have A LOT of experience with powder right ? So if that is a good ski for you, I wonder if for someone like me(that have never skied powder ever) would really be a suitable ski? |
I got a pair of first generation 112s and they are super easy to ski. I recently lent them to a friend who was just getting into off piste so he could use them on an off piste instruction week. He also loved them
Neither me nor my mate are as strong skiers as bobinch
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You know it makes sense.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| I find them fine, a very versatile ski but I live out in the Austrian Alps so have a choice of skis. If I only had one pair I'd go for the Enforcers. But one winter I clocked up about 40 days on the Bents. |
Amazing!
Where are your favorite spots in Austria for powder?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Should add that the 112 was a fairly unique shape when it first came out. There are others with similar shape now
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Contrarian wrote: |
@BobinCH, I'm just about to buy some powder skis, and have been considering the DPS Wailer 112.
Do you know how these would fare in non-optimal off piste conditions? At the moment, I ski a Volkl mantra, which is excellent for cutting through crud. I just wondered whether the DPS Wailers would be able to do this too. |
I’ve not skied the Mantra but it has a rep as a crud buster. IME the Wailer is more of a pow ski. If you like the stiffness of the Mantra go for the Alchemist/Pagoda version of the wailer which is stiff
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| AndreSilva wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Turning in crust is damn hard! I have never skied an easier to turn pow ski than the DPS wailer 112 hybrid/foundation - it is the perfect beginner/intermediate powder ski because it is so easy to ski and will make you feel like a champion. |
Thanks for the tips!
By the things you wrote, I would guess you have A LOT of experience with powder right ? So if that is a good ski for you, I wonder if for someone like me(that have never skied powder ever) would really be a suitable ski? |
The Foundation model of the Wailer is just a great easy ski. I sold mine to this 80yr old Snowheads punter called @rungsp and even he was slashing pow turns and launching off kickers so I do t think you need worry
The Alchemist/Pagoda models are stiffer but still IME easy skis to ski versus some very stiff Dynastar / Scott big mountain skis I’ve demoed. If you can I would try both models.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| AndreSilva wrote: |
| Scarpa wrote: |
| I'm only 76kg and find the Nordica Enforcer Free in 104mm to be a fantastic piste and off piste ski. It's got a little more rocker than the standard Enforcer range so is more geared up towards off piste. For powder the Bent Chetlers in 120mm are my go to but they are tiring if you end up doing a lot of piste skiing. For a fat ski they are extremely nimble in the forests. |
Do you think the Bent Chetler is good enough for European style powder? Isn't it too wide? Sounds like a ski for Japan-like powder, when you have that very soft snow many meters deep.
I guess how much technique you have also counts a lot in this case |
It’s a very light, nimble, centre mounted ski. Great for pow and trees. Not as stable hooning it and in chop. Perhaps a bit light for a big guy like you
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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"I’ve not skied the Mantra but it has a rep as a crud buster. IME the Wailer is more of a pow ski. If you like the stiffness of the Mantra go for the Alchemist/Pagoda version of the wailer which is stiff"
Cheers Bob.
I'm going to buy the Alchemist Wailer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Contrarian, I think stiffness is one thing but the whole shape of the 112 is very different. The sidecut of the 112 is much smaller than more traditionally shaped skis like the Mantra. I have some Blizzard Cochises which I much prefer to the 112s in mixed/hard snow but the 112s are way better in soft snow or if I want to make list of tight turns in trees etc
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks for that Arno.
I think I will still go for the DPS Alchemist Wailers, which I will use for softer conditions. I'll use my Mantras for the mixed and harder stuff.
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@AndreSilva, if in Verbier you could try demoing some Faction skis to see the difference between the metal Dictator and wood/carbon Agent. Faction HQ is in Verbier. They come in 84, 94, 104 and 114mm width. My weight yo-yos quite a bit and usually between 85 and 92kgs. I ski on the Dictator 2.0 (94mm) in all conditions and never really felt the need for anything wider. I use the 1.0 (84mm) when it’s icey day with no prospect of going off-piste. The Agents may serve you well as they are a little easier to finish the turn and are lighter if you want to tour in the future.
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| Quote: |
I guess how much technique you have also counts a lot in this case
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Well, as one learned powder on 207 GS race skis with 66mm waists (203 slaloms were too short and stiff for decent "float"  ) yes, it really is all down to technique ...
I'm still thinking rent before you buy, if you need to buy at all ...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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+ Whitedot ASBOs/Delinquents (OK Altum 114/104)
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