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Tignes and The Espace Killy (Or Tignes/Val D'Isere) 2021/2022. (Useful links updated on Page 1)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
chocksaway wrote:
@Old Fartbag, Thanks.

Guy has retired and sold his shop, so that answers that!

So my 2 go tos have gone, I will ask around when I return, but at the end of last season I was hearing good things about a good bootfitter at Tignes Spirit, but I can't remember her name.

That would be brilliant. I have the option of going to VDI, but it is much easier to avoid that.

Is Tignes Spirit over at Commercial Centre at Lavachet? I will be on Rue de La Poste - so only a 12 min walk according to Google Maps.

Thanks again for the help.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Old Fartbag, Yes it is, 3 stops on the bus from The Arbina in Lac. Also very handy for a swift half in the Queue de Cochon or the Box. wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
chocksaway wrote:
@Old Fartbag, Yes it is, 3 stops on the bus from The Arbina in Lac. Also very handy for a swift half in the Queue de Cochon or the Box. wink

Well, I think you have earned a drink, if you are there during our week - But only only if the Boots fit well! Toofy Grin

I like the look of their website - which includes a Bootfitting Guide that talks of a Shell Check - so that is a good sign. If their instructors use the service, that is an even better sign.

If you come up with a name that would be brilliant - and I suspect more than me will be pleased to get it, as all the normal recommendations have had the audacity to retire or leave. It's simply not cricket!!


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 15-07-22 13:39; edited 1 time in total
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@Old Fartbag, Aye, running off with all my money!!

In other news I saw a quick flash on the app about the Marais sector being closed to walkers on 7 Jul due to the removal of the Aiguille Rouge Chair by chopper. I know the project was given the go ahead after a Public Inquiry on 22 Jun, so they have obviously cracked on, barely giving the ink time to dry.

A bit of research shows the replacement will be a 6 man detachable built this summer (timescales must be tight) with a capacity per hour of around 3000 riders (currently about 1700). It will depart from a similar place but the track will be to the left (ie southish) of the one we have come to love and hate! It will still arrive above the Chaudannes Resto (@judwin will be relieved!). There is no news on the Marais lift other than it will depart from the same place as the A rouge at some time in the future. Hopefully Tignes.net will be uppdated once the Autumn shift comes on.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Popped up for a walk around the lake at Tignes this week and there’s a really interesting exhibition story boards about the history of Tignes around the building of the dam , it’s by the swimming pool and play ground . I found it fascinating and was very surprised that the first to move got more compensation than the ones who held out to the end . It was quite sad .
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chocksaway wrote:
@Old Fartbag, Aye, running off with all my money!!

In other news I saw a quick flash on the app about the Marais sector being closed to walkers on 7 Jul due to the removal of the Aiguille Rouge Chair by chopper. I know the project was given the go ahead after a Public Inquiry on 22 Jun, so they have obviously cracked on, barely giving the ink time to dry.

A bit of research shows the replacement will be a 6 man detachable built this summer (timescales must be tight) with a capacity per hour of around 3000 riders (currently about 1700). It will depart from a similar place but the track will be to the left (ie southish) of the one we have come to love and hate! It will still arrive above the Chaudannes Resto (@judwin will be relieved!). There is no news on the Marais lift other than it will depart from the same place as the A rouge at some time in the future. Hopefully Tignes.net will be uppdated once the Autumn shift comes on.


Ugg - not so sure. On a foul weather day our favourite run was under the Aguille Rouge chair. If they move the landing spot down closer to Lo Soli, then IIRC there be dragons there (falais/cliffs off the edge) so for access you might have to all around and up Auntie Percie, which is a ballache now Marais has gone..

And Lo Soli isn't the same since Max departed for Brittany to farm chickens. We really struggled to train the new bar man in the etiquite of Rock Music whilst partaking of Tiffin.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Judwin, I think you'll be OK, the owner of Lo Soli was a major 'contributor' to the enquiry.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Does mid July usually mean peak summer in the Tarantaise? I’m so looking forward to our month on skis in January. It will feel a lot closer as the weather starts to cool.
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The heat and lack of water is starting to take its toll. Palet refuge shut for the rest of the summer season.

https://refuge-coldupalet.vanoise.com/
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Quote:
The heat and lack of water is starting to take its toll. Palet refuge shut for the rest of the summer season.
Wow!! Another shocker after the disappointment of the glacier closure for skiing Confused

Mrs MA and I are in Tignes now (first trip to our apartment since covid Very Happy) and were actually just planning a 2 day hike and a night in the refuge... rolling eyes

In other news, the scale of the new Club Med development at Val Claret is well beyond anything we'd ever imagined. Absolutely incredible in size (at 9 or 10 storeys it completely dwarfs surrounding buildings) but, thankfully, doesn't affect the view up towards the glacier from our 3rd floor apartment too much. However, some apartments and hotels will be absolutely blighted by it and have gone from nice mountain views to looking onto a humongous hotel.

While I do think the scale is massively excessive (covering two thirds of the old car park and far too high), one plus point is that the place has been cleverly designed to look like a number of smaller buildings, rather than a Las Vegas-style mega hotel. This is particularly the case when viewing it from up the mountain.

Also, (for the time being at least?) there's still about a third of the old car park left.



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Planet Ski shows a picture of the lower glacier this morning. The starting point of the Rosolin T Bar is now on the edge of a lake Shocked
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
Planet Ski shows a picture of the lower glacier this morning. The starting point of the Rosolin T Bar is now on the edge of a lake
Sad

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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
[quote="mountainaddict"]
Quote:


In other news, the scale of the new Club Med development at Val Claret is well beyond anything we'd ever imagined. Absolutely incredible in size (at 9 or 10 storeys it completely dwarfs surrounding buildings) but, thankfully, doesn't affect the view up towards the glacier from our 3rd floor apartment too much. However, some apartments and hotels will be absolutely blighted by it and have gone from nice mountain views to looking onto a humongous hotel.

While I do think the scale is massively excessive (covering two thirds of the old car park and far too high), one plus point is that the place has been cleverly designed to look like a number of smaller buildings, rather than a Las Vegas-style mega hotel. This is particularly the case when viewing it from up the mountain.

Also, (for the time being at least?) there's still about a third of the old car park left.





Hardly spoiling a pretty Alpine village is it?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Hardly spoiling a pretty Alpine village is it?
There's always one...(usual suspect) rolling eyes

Did anybody say it was spoiling a pretty alpine village? Nobody has ever suggested Tignes comes into that category. But it does fall into the category of one of the world's best ski areas - hoorah! And after riding one lift you can't see the architecture anyway wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
There was a 'village meeting' last night and I have seen a few of the slides, taken on a smart phone. I don't think any of it is set in stone, so don't blame me if it doesn't turn out like this!

Looks like a season pass is going to be 990 for an adult, no mention of early bird discounts and I don't know if age discounts will still exist. The list of discounts/freebies is much shortened, so nothing for proprietaires or locals, but still there for instructors. There is a proposal for a 2 out of 7 day pass for a season for E350.

Car parking has gone up a bit.

There are also plans in for another 500 bed hotel in VC to the south of the Club Med, so between the Avenue de la Grand Motte and Tichot lift. Looking at the size of the footprint on the slides it is going to have to be bloody tall to get 500 beds in. Not passed yet.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
chocksaway wrote:
There was a 'village meeting' last night and I have seen a few of the slides, taken on a smart phone. I don't think any of it is set in stone, so don't blame me if it doesn't turn out like this!

Looks like a season pass is going to be 990 for an adult, no mention of early bird discounts and I don't know if age discounts will still exist. The list of discounts/freebies is much shortened, so nothing for proprietaires or locals, but still there for instructors. There is a proposal for a 2 out of 7 day pass for a season for E350.

Car parking has gone up a bit.

There are also plans in for another 500 bed hotel in VC to the south of the Club Med, so between the Avenue de la Grand Motte and Tichot lift. Looking at the size of the footprint on the slides it is going to have to be bloody tall to get 500 beds in. Not passed yet.


Playing devils advocate, I suppose that bit of land might be classed as a wee bit dead space anyway?

But it will be another blot on the landscape...................
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@chocksaway, The season pass info matches what we’ve been told over in Val d’Isere, we’ve also had no info if an early bird discount will still apply.
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At a Val d’Isere council meeting in April they announced for the 22/23 season

Day passes - down from €63 to €60
6 day passes - up from €324 to €360
Season passes - down €1450 (without early bird ) to €990
These are for the full area.

The child age for a free pass will be extended to under 8year olds.
All Val d’Isere resident children under 18 would also get a free pass but they are still working out discounts for adult residents and seasonal workers.
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Interesting there is definitely a move towards cheaper season tickets , down the road in Ste Foy we now have a very big 30% off window for season tickets now which has proved very successful . I know for sure that the lift companies and Marie’s have been watching the initiative and success taken by the Swiss with the Magic passes and would love a Haute Tarentaise Valley pass but know it would be almost impossible to get the lift co’s to agree.
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I will also add that the sales numbers must be telling them what we all know that the day tickets are too expensive .
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muppet wrote:
At a Val d’Isere council meeting in April they announced for the 22/23 season

Day passes - down from €63 to €60
6 day passes - up from €324 to €360
Season passes - down €1450 (without early bird ) to €990
These are for the full area.


So for a normal weeks package holiday there is no incentive to buy a 6 day pass over 6x1 day passes? That might backfire if people normally take a day off to do something else. Is the seventh day still 'free'?

And a season pass for less than 3x6 day passes. That's tempting.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Judwin wrote:
And a season pass for less than 3x6 day passes. That's tempting.


I guess they hope people take it on the basis of two one-week stays, but don't make it back for the third.
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Quote:

So for a normal weeks package holiday there is no incentive to buy a 6 day pass over 6x1 day passes? That might backfire if people normally take a day off to do something else. Is the seventh day still 'free'?


My last week with my usual group, a combination of days off and minor injuries meant we only skied something like 50 days between us out of a possible 60. Would definitely do day passes next time in Val d’Isere.
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Judwin wrote:
So for a normal weeks package holiday there is no incentive to buy a 6 day pass over 6x1 day passes?

They have been doing that in the autumn for several years now, just a fixed rate per day.
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James the Last wrote:
Judwin wrote:
And a season pass for less than 3x6 day passes. That's tempting.


I guess they hope people take it on the basis of two one-week stays, but don't make it back for the third.


More likely they are hoping people do 4 weeks plus instead of 3 - more spend in the village.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
rjs wrote:
Judwin wrote:
So for a normal weeks package holiday there is no incentive to buy a 6 day pass over 6x1 day passes?

They have been doing that in the autumn for several years now, just a fixed rate per day.


We normally go for 2 weeks before Xmas. It has been complicated because they had different pre season, early season, and main season day and multi-day prices. You almost needed a computer program to work out the cheapest combination of tickets for 10-12 days skiing during that period.

Buying a 6 day ticket certainly eases the aggro of queueing up for (say) 6x1 day tickets even if there is no financial saving. It also 'forces' you to go out on a foul weather day, or after a few too many sherberts in the Marmot Arms the night before, when you'd probably take a duvet day if you hadn't already paid for the lift pass.
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Kenzie wrote:
James the Last wrote:
Judwin wrote:
And a season pass for less than 3x6 day passes. That's tempting.


I guess they hope people take it on the basis of two one-week stays, but don't make it back for the third.


More likely they are hoping people do 4 weeks plus instead of 3 - more spend in the village.


You may be right. I don't know how much the lift company cares about bars in the village?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@GreenDay, Yes! Unless you have an apartment in Rond Point de Pistes that suddenly has no view.

But if the new edifice puts me in the shade whilst having my late lunch Aspen Burger I will be asking questions in the House!

I'm also with all the comments on pricing a weeks pass. When I have guests I tell them not to buy on line and assess the weather on arrival. A couple of my ski buddies are fair weather skiers and appreciate a day off, or a gentle pootle and lunch at St Foy. I was discussing this with a town councillor who just didn't get it, neither did they get that last year's 6 days out of 7 cost more than a 6 day. Luckily @Judwin, I do have a Kray supercomputer in my apartment, which looks remarkably like the back of a (big) envelope wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
muppet wrote:
At a Val d’Isere council meeting in April they announced for the 22/23 season

Day passes - down from €63 to €60
6 day passes - up from €324 to €360
Season passes - down €1450 (without early bird ) to €990
These are for the full area.

The child age for a free pass will be extended to under 8year olds.
All Val d’Isere resident children under 18 would also get a free pass but they are still working out discounts for adult residents and seasonal workers.

Thanks for posting that.

Crystal have a 2 for 1 offer atm....which I just missed (although got a good price on hol).....but they currently have the Pass at €334 (Crystal Ireland), so I have just put that on my booking, as they will probably put the cost up to €360 when they catch on. They have always charged what the resort charges.
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James the Last wrote:
Kenzie wrote:
James the Last wrote:
Judwin wrote:
And a season pass for less than 3x6 day passes. That's tempting.


I guess they hope people take it on the basis of two one-week stays, but don't make it back for the third.


More likely they are hoping people do 4 weeks plus instead of 3 - more spend in the village.


You may be right. I don't know how much the lift company cares about bars in the village?


STGM has to consider the requirements of the other businesses in Tignes if they don't want to risk losing their licence to run the lifts.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
A bit more on the building next door to the Club Med. Some details have appeared on The Marie website, but very few artists impressions.

Somewhat ironically it is called the Alpine Mess, no I have no idea either. It's going to be about 24m high, it looks to be 7 stories with a roof. I think the end of Avenue de la Grand Motte will look like a canyon. Without doubt people are going to lose their views.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
At that pace, they should start tearing down the old buildings on the other side of the road and build new sky scrappers instead. Turning Val Claret into Paris' La Defense zone.
The New Shanghai Twisted Evil
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Reckon the season coming is going to be really busy. Anecdotally, just received a note from the ski school we use (Ultimate) that they have limited slots available for the Easter Week; Coupled with a quick AirBnB search throwing up limited apartments and there being little availability in terms of accommodation on the Friday night in Reims/Troyes. I get the feeling that families who have put off skiing in 2021 and 22 are getting in early!
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Rob Mackley wrote:
Interesting there is definitely a move towards cheaper season tickets , down the road in Ste Foy we now have a very big 30% off window for season tickets now which has proved very successful . I know for sure that the lift companies and Marie’s have been watching the initiative and success taken by the Swiss with the Magic passes and would love a Haute Tarentaise Valley pass but know it would be almost impossible to get the lift co’s to agree.


why? Val d'Isere, Tignes, les Arcs, la Plagne and la Rosiere are all compagnie des Alpes resorts - that only leaves out Ste Foy who would fall into line, no doubt.
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@davidof, Yes you’d think so but I was told it’s almost impossible to do , La Rosiere is different because of La Thuile connection in Italy .
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Would be interested to know who told you, @Rob Mackley ... ?

Val d'Isere, Tignes, les Arcs, la Plagne can already be skied on a single pass (https://www.skialacarte.fr/) which suggests there's not any technical reason that's stopping it for those areas at least.

Problem with Ski a la Carte is you are paying day rates, so not really viable for a season. Were I to stay in BSM for the season I'd seriously consider buying season passes for both E-K and Paradiski as there's no cheaper way to access the glacier for pre and early season then Les Arcs for the main season. But I'd still be a bit resentful over 'paying double' but only skiing one place at a time.

Perhaps @chocksaway knows who we can all lobby?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@bobski62, It’s France so there is always a decade of chat before anything happens, my source is on the Sainte Foy Tarentaise Council and is also a very well respected guide in the area. All the stations in the last couple of years have been getting more forward thinking about ski pass options co-operating with each other but at the same time being quite competitive for the day trip custom .
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@drporat,
@chocksaway,

How long before the high rise upmarket urban sprawl in Val Claret starts creeping up the lower part of Double M, as average temperatures probably continue to rise? Mad
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@PeakyB, Joking aside one if the reasons for the building explosion in Tignes over the last half decade is Swiss money as they hedge their bets against climate change, according to the word on the rue!

The lift pass thing is interesting and I think it can be summed up as conflicting interests, suspicion and a complex web of how the resorts actually work. So working on who to lobby would be very tricky.

So, I suspect sharing out the spoils for a Haute Tarentaise lift pass would be a labyrinthine task. The majority of day trips in low season would be in La Plagne, as it's the shortest journey. At the start of the season Tignes would be mobbed, followed by Val.

Ultimately, the resorts want visitors to stay in resort to spend in bars, hotels etc, and there's a lot of self interest here. If you look at the council in Tignes, many are from the original families who acquired their assets for a song, others have major business interests. Other than the altitude restos, day trippers spend very little. A HT pass would probably encourage people to stop down in the Valley as they drive between different resorts, so the resorts would wither a bit, as well as creating massive parking problems!

Companies des Alpes don't own the lifts, they hold the licence to operate them, in some resorts they also do piste bashing and piste security. Ultimately the Marie hold the hammer on what they can and can't do, for instance there is, for want of a better phrase, the Snow Committe in Tignes that make the big decisions on what happens, e.g. where the agreed % of lift pass take is spent on new lifts. I'm not sure of the list of parties but it includes the lift company, the land owners, the Marie, Regie des Pistes and, of course, ESF. So it's complicated and as Rob said, the French do like to discuss. They also have to appease the National Park and a bunch of protest groups.

But CdeA are diversifying from lift management, they are buying up property and real estate agents at a pace. Put together with their tour op running it's own Eurostars, it's clear they are looking at vertical integration of their business. Luckily they will be kept in check as they will never be able to acquire the land on which the lifts and piste occupy, because of the number of factions involved.

I'm not sure I have answered the exam question, but hopefully my ramblings have provided some background!
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