 Poster: A snowHead
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| johnE wrote: |
A very interesting discussion, especially considering the news articles of the last couple weeks saying we wash our clothes too much and how bad it is for the environment.
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Another thing to consider is how much of a wash clothes really require. A 30C, 45min quick cycle on our machine is enough for almost everything, including running kit. Hiking trips have shown us that a rinse in water is actually all that is needed much of the time.
I get 3 days out of base layers, then a 45min wash cycle and they're good for the rest of the week.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| johnE wrote: |
| I've also shifted away from the concept of specialist clothing for skiing. Following my son's advice I now wear ordinary T shirts under the mid layer |
Assuming you mean a cotton t-shirt, that's fine as long as you can guarantee not to get it wet from either the inside or the outside.
Turning that around, I now wear merino t-shirts as ordinary everyday t-shirts (got one on now), as they're way more comfortable than cotton, especially when it's hot, and don't need washing as often.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| johnE wrote: |
I would regard it as very irresponsible to wear an item of clothing only once then wash it. |
So you don't wash your pants and socks after one wear?
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@greengriff, I find socks only need washing once a week.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yikes. I'm glad I don't have to share a bed with you!  What about underpants?
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| Quote: |
What about underpants?
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As required. I don't wear socks in bed nor underpants.
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As required? How do you tell? With a sniff test? I was talking about the smell of you after wearing socks (and pants?) for 6 days, not the smell of the socks and pants, although I can imagine that they are rank!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Cheers, very interesting. Although elsewhere I'd read that synthetics regulate temperature better than Merino!
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| greengriff wrote: |
| What about underpants? |
4 days - front, back, inside out and repeat - thought everyone did that 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Bones wrote: |
| greengriff wrote: |
| What about underpants? |
4 days - front, back, inside out and repeat - thought everyone did that |
Of course I knew about the front-back reciprocal but what a revelation for the inside-out repeat. Humanity (beyond SnowHeads) needs to know about this.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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| greengriff wrote: |
| Cheers, very interesting. Although elsewhere I'd read that synthetics regulate temperature better than Merino! |
I'd say that's dependent on the climate. In the hot summer (e.g. strenuous mountainbiking / hiking) the body tries to cool itself from the evaporation of sweat (through the latent heat of evaporation). I find a synthetic T-shirt is better in these conditions. It's my only layer rather than the "base layer".
For temperature regulation in cool weather (e.g. Autumn cycling) I don't want to be overcooled so find merino wool as a base layer better (with a breathable windproof outerlayer).
A base layer is not just about temperature regulation (which your other layers will probably have more of an influence on) but also about comfort (e.g. moisture control, smell control etc). The other layers also have an influence on how much moisture can be dissipated so it's not just about the baselayer either. Once had a softshell that was really breathable but wasn't windproof so proved too cold for skiing. We are all different and some sweat / stink more than others so a lot is about what suits you rather than what is the best fabric.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have a specific Base Layer question - and rather than start yet another Base Layer thread, I am going to hijack this one....so apologies to the OP.
What I'm looking to find out, is what weight/type/arrangement of Base Layer, people wear under a Shell Pant, when it's really cold....as in -15 to -25.
The last time I wore a Shell over my legs, was with my very smart Event Fartbag, made of the new fangled Goretex - now long since gone. Over the last 35 years my legs have been kept toasty in insulation from the likes of Primaloft and Thinsulate.
I am now the proud owner of some Spyder Shell Ski Pants - and have a variety of Light to Midweight bottoms - the heaviest being some 230g/m2 Merino wool XTM jobbies.
I don't run particularly cold - so I was wondering what other people use....which might include a thin and thicker layer. I don't want to spend a fortune and ideally use what I have.
@under a new name Did I read you used Decathlon Fleece leggings? If so, are these the ones?: https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-mountain-trekking-fleece-tights-trek-100/_/R-p-15939?mc=8228616&c=BLACK
If so:
1. Are they wide enough at the bottom, to to pull up above the boot (ie. Not tucked into the boot) and not be too tight around the leg?
2. How warm are they? They are great value - but at a Tenner, it's hard to see them bettering some of what I have.....but practical experience counts for a lot in my book.
3. What else have you compared them with?
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Fri 1-10-21 11:13; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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you cant reinvent the wheel ..... best base layer .. the string vest
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Old Fartbag, I wear shell pants pretty much all the time these days. The only time my insulated trousers come out now is in those kind of temps, and I'll still have my thickest pair of leggings on underneath (a pair of pretty substantial 80% merino wool base layer from Norwegian brand Twentyfour). If it's “pretty cold” rather than “Baltic”, those leggings under the shell pants are fine.
My question though, is why? Are you heading somewhere particularly chilly? Most of the time in Europe, it doesn't get that cold – I've only used the insulated trousers one day in four seasons, and that was up on the glacier.
Sweet Protection (I think, prob other brands too) make a pair of 3/4 insulated mid-layer pants that would replicate the insulated trousers, but under a shell. With a base layer as well, something like this would work fine and not interfere with your boots.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Scarlet wrote: |
@Old Fartbag,
My question though, is why? Are you heading somewhere particularly chilly? Most of the time in Europe, it doesn't get that cold – I've only used the insulated trousers one day in four seasons, and that was up on the glacier.
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Very simple - it is to cover me when things turn very cold, in a practical, sensible way.
It doesn't happen that often, but it certainly does happen. The last time for me was Tignes, in early Jan 2016 (?), when temperatures plummeted to less than -20 (It was a lot colder than that at altitude), with strong winds and severe wind chill.
Since I only get 1 week per year - I will go out if the lifts are open.....so having the option of clothing, that can mitigate these low temperatures when it does happen is crucial, as my body doesn't function that well when it gets very cold.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Old Fartbag, if you want to wear fishnet stockings for skiing, we won't judge 
My main ski leggings under a shell are polartec 100 kids fleece leggings from MEC in Canada (big kids over there), and have lasted me about 20 years. They are very similar to the decathlon ones you linked to, but a less dense weave. IME it doesn't matter how expensive the fabric, the main insulator is air, and I find that the cheap fleece holds air as well as expensive fleece.
For very cold conditions I have some heavier weight versions, but unless I'm standing around watching races, they are too warm.
However, at -20C in a howling wind on a chairlift I'd want the heavier weight ones, or 2 pairs of the lightweight version.
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Ideally - that is exactly what I need. I thought that something like that should exist, but couldn't find it.
The downside is the cost - which is actually as much I paid for the Spyder Pants. It is brilliant to know they are there - so thank you for that - but I need to be sure they are necessary....which is why I am looking for feedback. If I lived near the alps and skied regularly, I'd buy them without hesitation.
If UANN skis in all temperatures, with a £10 Fleece Legging under a shell, that is useful to know.
My problem, is I simply don't know. My old Ski Pants are insulated with Primaloft - and with my selection of leggings, was never cold. Back when I had the Event Shell, I usually went when it was warmer - and had some Darmart heavyweight leggings, that were terrible and didn't breathe at all.
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| snowdave wrote: |
@Old Fartbag, if you want to wear fishnet stockings for skiing, we won't judge
My main ski leggings under a shell are polartec 100 kids fleece leggings from MEC in Canada (big kids over there), and have lasted me about 20 years. They are very similar to the decathlon ones you linked to, but a less dense weave. IME it doesn't matter how expensive the fabric, the main insulator is air, and I find that the cheap fleece holds air as well as expensive fleece.
For very cold conditions I have some heavier weight versions, but unless I'm standing around watching races, they are too warm.
However, at -20C in a howling wind on a chairlift I'd want the heavier weight ones, or 2 pairs of the lightweight version. |
Brilliant, that makes sense - thank you. What "weight" are your heavier ones.
I recon Lightweight is 100 - 150; Midweight is 200 - 260 and Heavyweight around 300....with Expedition weight around 400g/m2.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Old Fartbag, I just looked around for an example without considering the price, but I’ve seen similar on Sport Pursuit before. TBH, in the alps it’s less of a consideration because you can choose from your wardrobe based on the weather forecast, but for travelling, this is a better option because you don’t need to carry an extra pair of ski pants.
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@Old Fartbag, I'm pretty sure they are polartec 300, but I don't have them to hand to verify.
When I had to choose one pair of leggings for a multi-month trip (where weight was hugely important) I took the 100-weight ones and they were fine, but I was never below about -10C.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Old Fartbag,
For hut to hut skitouring trips I take 3 layers for my legs.
1. Shell or softshell outer layer. (deep winter = thicker softshell / spring trip = thinner shell)
2. Midlayer = 3/4 or sawnoff thermal sport leggings
3. Thin Merino layer
During warm weather I'll leave the mid layer in the backpack or hut.
.... plus merino wool undies of course (two pairs for the week)
Primaloft and Thinsulate are very warm so to offset the insulation benefits of those I suspect you would need to go 300+ weight merino.
You could double up e.g. wear 150 +230 merino and if it's too warm take off the outer pair.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 1-10-21 13:21; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Old Fartbag, peak performance do a range of 3/4 length base layer leggings. I have had a couple of pairs of the heavier fleece versions for years and they are great when it’s cold and aren’t too bad if I get it wrong and it turns out warmer than I expected.
They do a hybrid version with primaloft insulation for really cold days. Pre-season deals available from their Uk distributor now:
https://www.peakguildford.co.uk/
For really cold days I have some down overshorts which you can take off/on without removing boots. A bit niche but there have been a couple of times when they’ve been an absolute godsend
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@DB, Thank you.
For mostly resort skiing, when it gets very cold - maybe a compression type layer, under a midweight base layer, might be enough.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Arno wrote: |
@Old Fartbag, peak performance do a range of 3/4 length base layer leggings. I have had a couple of pairs of the heavier fleece versions for years and they are great when it’s cold and aren’t too bad if I get it wrong and it turns out warmer than I expected.
They do a hybrid version with primaloft insulation for really cold days. Pre-season deals available from their Uk distributor now:
https://www.peakguildford.co.uk/
For really cold days I have some down overshorts which you can take off/on without removing boots. A bit niche but there have been a couple of times when they’ve been an absolute godsend |
That's great.
Is this what you are referring to (there are several 3/4 length versions)?:
3/4 Leggings: https://www.peakguildford.co.uk/m-spirit-short-johns-777
Hybrid (uses Pinneco® fiber): https://www.peakguildford.co.uk/m-alum-hybrid-short-john-655
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yes, those are the ones. I didn’t get the right insulation fabric, soz
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Poster: A snowHead
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I try to run the rule of three "wash one, dry one, wear one". Works OK if there are enough radiators in your accommadation. All synthetic, tho they do smell a bit at the end.
Edit: Just to say, I mean handwash every day.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 2-10-21 22:28; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
All synthetic, tho they do smell a bit at the end.
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Should be banned for the toxic odours. Can smell them 20ft away.
Merino is the only civilized fabric to wear….for the sake of humanity!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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:d
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've skied with a merino t shirt for 10 ten years and it's been a life saver. I must upgrade, clearly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Old Fartbag, I've coverted to shells. I have some Odlo 'warm' 3/4 lengths and some old 3/4 length snow and rock synthetics, and a pair of Wedze insuled 'puffer' 3/4 lengths. I wore a pair of ordinary 'warm' ones down to -10 and from there to -27 simply put on a second pair over the first. Seemed to work for me.
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| rogg wrote: |
| @Old Fartbag, I've coverted to shells. I have some Odlo 'warm' 3/4 lengths and some old 3/4 length snow and rock synthetics, and a pair of Wedze insuled 'puffer' 3/4 lengths. I wore a pair of ordinary 'warm' ones down to -10 and from there to -27 simply put on a second pair over the first. Seemed to work for me. |
Excellent - Thank you.
Could I ask you to link to the Wedze Insulated ones, as I don't see them at Decathlon (which may mean they're discontinued).
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I wear synthetics, but a question to all those who bang on about merino wool; why not angora, alpaca or cashmere base layers? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| BoardieK wrote: |
| I wear synthetics, but a question to all those who bang on about merino wool; why not angora, alpaca or cashmere base layers? |
because they are all low volume and therefore too expensive compared to merino.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| rogg wrote: |
| @Old Fartbag, I've coverted to shells. I have some Odlo 'warm' 3/4 lengths and some old 3/4 length snow and rock synthetics, and a pair of Wedze insuled 'puffer' 3/4 lengths. I wore a pair of ordinary 'warm' ones down to -10 and from there to -27 simply put on a second pair over the first. Seemed to work for me. |
Excellent - Thank you.
Could I ask you to link to the Wedze Insulated ones, as I don't see them at Decathlon (which may mean they're discontinued). |
They were indeed from Decathlon, about three years ago. I can't see them now, so you might be right about them being discontinued.....
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FAQ
