 Poster: A snowHead
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| gilo wrote: |
| You’re over thinking it and being too cautious because you started the others too early. (IMHO). |
What?  I'm trying to decide whether to start firefly at 2 or at 3!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mostly going to repeat what some others have said, but here's my perspective anyway.
1) Every kid is different. You know your kid best, so will know what has a good chance of working for them.
2) I'll second what others have said that learning on the mountain is probably better for kids. When I was a kid, the enjoyment was not just from the skiing itself, but from the whole holiday aspect. So being in the mountains (lovely fresh air and views), playing in the snow, going exploring in a new town/village, and so on. You might need to adjust your own expectations a bit: kids learning to ski may not want to or be able to go all day, so you might have to take it easy in the afternoons, and so on. Think of it more as a family holiday in the mountains with some skiing, instead of a skiing holiday, if that makes sense.
As an aside, I sometimes wonder how much of the "few hours in a snowdome first" is a UK thing. In France it just doesn't seem to factor in at all. Though that's not really relevant to this topic anyway...
3) Group lessons are good if your kid is reasonably sociable. They'll make friends, and have more fun learning as part of a group. I learned with ESF myself, and don't remember any particular issues, but I also know they're not so popular on here  . Lots of other options though. Obviously don't try to teach your kid yourself, that way disaster lies. Kids know very well that they can get away with things with parents that they won't with teachers. If you do end up skiing with them in the afternoon, be patient, and expect the odd wobbly.
4) Make sure they have lots of snacks on them, and if/when you ski with them in the afternoon have breaks for hot chocolates etc. I never minded the cold much as a kid (still don't really), but some kids do (see point 1 again).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Group lessons in Austria. Dump the kid at the beginning of the day with €9 in his pocket (this may have gone up a bit). Pick him up at the end of the day. He’ll feel pretty grown up being responsible for his lunch, being out all day without you and will have had an adventure. For the first few days they’ll stay on more gentle slopes (on his first trip), then eventually move further around the mountain as the week goes on.
We started off doing ESF, and bar one day (out of about 3 weeks) where Jnr was seemingly put with an old battle-axe who wouldn’t let him go to the toilet, Jnr tended to enjoy it - he wasn’t the shy retiring type! When we started going to Austria though, he enjoyed it much more. Skiing with kids his own age, out all day going all over the place and ending up doing much more daring stuff than he’d do with us.
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Don't make an issue of it, make it just 'this is what we do' . As @hammerite, says full day group lessons including lunch. Regardless of which ski school you go to you can get instructors that don't work for your child. At 7 they are past the bawling toddler stage and are more likely to be hanging off the back of the group because there is a jump at the edge of the piste that they just had to try.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
If your lad is in anyway sporty, then the chances are he will love it, especially if he starts soon.
I know what you mean about the crying kid at the back of the snake and 9 times out of 10 it is because they are tired, hungry, cold or a combo of all three. So as others have said above, fill their pockets with food, and don't stint on kit. Gloves and socks especially.
I personally think that going for a week to the alps is the best. They might be hesitant at the beginning, but because it is so intense that will hopefully be over and done with after day one. If you're going for an hour here and there to a fridge then it might drag out this stage which is probably not going to ideal, and might put them off.
Not sure what sort of budget you're prepared to fork out for, and what your views on taking them out of school is, but if it was me I would be looking at going with a kid friendly company (like Esprit) to a snow sure resort in March. It will be cheaper than peak, the weather will be warmer and the snow should still be good. If you book lessons through Esprit, it will be with ESF, but IIRC they are limited in number and the Esprit child minders bring up the rear of the snake and this seems to avoid the crying kid struggling on their own. And the best bit about Esprit is, they take the kids to the lessons. Going to the lessons (just like dropping off at school or nursery) is the time that young kids might kick off and be clingy, but it is neatly avoided this way.
As others have said above, you wouldn't be doing a huge amount of skiing in the afternoon, and you will need lots of snack/drink breaks to keep lad happy. And as soon as they start flagging, it's time to go home. You would at least get about 2 hours of skiing by yourself each day though. |
I've no issue taking them out of school. I've always done this actually as the holiday costs half the price and the empty slopes make it twice as enjoyable. I've never used childcare abroad, mainly because it feels like a bit of a cop out (i.e. you're off enjoying yourself whilst little Johnny is stuck watching Finding Nemo whilst a very indifferent 'carer' texts her mates and watches the clock), but when it comes to my few weeks of skiing, all bets are off!
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| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
| If you can, use competition to your advantage. The older sibling, or a friend that might be a ski-buddy-in-waiting, can speed the improvement......which is where the fun starts. |
Whilst I think in the longer term that's a great idea, the problem now is that his siblings are so far ahead of him (they have 7 or so years of skiing on him) that he's got a lot of work and learning before that's a feasible option. I can barely keep up with my eldest son (who's now 11 and seems to get exponentially faster each time he clicks on a set of skis) so it would be a disaster for the little one to try, particularly because both of them like nothing more than winding each other up and egging each other on. So ideally I'd like to keep them separated until the littlest one has some miles under his belt.
I tend to only take the kids on holiday one at a time now anyway, after a disaster at Sestriere a few years back when my daughter fell and twisted her leg whilst she was behind me and my son (who had ignored my exhortations to control his speed) was far ahead of me. It took me maybe 20 minutes to climb back up a steep black to get to her, and when I eventually sorted her out and found my son he was freezing cold and terrified having sat on his own for ~45 minutes. If we hadn't had a rule of sitting by the number 1 post and waiting for each other then it could have been a lot more of a headache. Bad parenting as they were about 6 and 7 at the time, but you live and learn. Now with only one kid to keep an eye on it's a lot more pleasurable.
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| jedster wrote: |
| greengriff wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| Regarding #1 - park your own enjoyment and aspirations for a while, in time you will have an excellent skiing companion. |
Excellent advice of course. I just find it difficult when I look forward to skiing all year, and only get between 1 and 3 weeks a year on snow, to not be selfish! |
You've just got to see it as an investment in great times ahead.
Most good things in life require delayed gratification. This is definitely no exception. |
Yes indeed. However I delay gratification for 50 weeks a year waiting for my next ski trip as it is. There's been some interesting thoughts thrown up here though, so there's definitely a reasonable compromise to be had.
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| put armbands on him & throw him down the mountain |
That might make me laugh, but I doubt my ex-wife would be pleased!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| admin wrote: |
Fastest way to get a kid enjoying skiing?
Nab one off the tail end of an ESF snake, probably.
They never notice if they only lose one or two. |
My son (when he was about 7) did get lost from the back of a snake once just below the white cross on Gentiane in Les Gets. I bumped into the lesson half way to the meeting point and his older sisters (who were in the same lesson) were in tears and the instructor was ashen faced. The lesson skied down Gentiane and I skied down Orchis looking for him. Got to the bottom and neither of us found him. That was the worst feeling of sheer dread that I’ve ever felt in my life. I had all sorts of horrible things going through my mind.
Transpires what had happened was the daft bug was at the back of the snake, stacked it and when he got back up joined the end of a different snake. He didn’t realise until he got to the bottom then poled over to where were, about 5 mins later. |
Holy poo-poo!!!!! If ever there was a ringing indictment against group lessons that is it! Definitely something you can laugh at later, but bloody hell....
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| admin wrote: |
Fastest way to get a kid enjoying skiing?
Nab one off the tail end of an ESF snake, probably.
They never notice if they only lose one or two. |
That's exactly my worry!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| philwig wrote: |
| Tell them they can't do it under any circumstances because it's not safe? |
The red rag to a bull approach?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| kitenski wrote: |
Whilst I love Scotland the chance of getting good snow, good visibility and zero wind are slim, even slimmer when you probably have to pre plan a trip around your 7 year olds school holidays. One sure fire way to get them to hate it would be Scottish high winds, zero vis, rain etc etc
So unless you can go last minute (ie decide the night before) with them, I'd park Scotland personally.
Weekend away in a hotel near Hemel/nearest dome?? Make it fun with cinema/eating out after skiing??? |
Intriguing idea, thank you. The issue is that he's going to need many hours like that. For example, the other 2 did maybe 2 or 3 terms of sno acadamy at MK before hitting the mountain, at which point they could ski well enough to really enjoy it.
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| gilo wrote: |
| You’re over thinking it and being too cautious because you started the others too early. (IMHO). 7 is the perfect age to go on holiday and go in smallish group lessons. They don’t need a head start, they just need a fun adventurous environment and a competitive spirit. Simples. |
Is there such a thing as too early? Because of the early start my eldest 2 have been able to properly enjoy a ski holiday from around 5 years old, which has been wonderful to see and be part of.
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You know it makes sense.
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| HilbertSpace wrote: |
Get the clothing right for the day, with good gloves, snack, and shove them in group lessons. They'll be fine.
Perhaps some ice skating or rollerblading beforehand.
As for expensive small-group English ski schools, the only time I saw a little kid crying their eyes out at the back and being ignored it was at such a school. While at the same time my kids were having great time in cheapo ESF. |
I am thinking that the suggestion of 5 x 2 hour private lessons in lieu of a week in ski school is the way ahead.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@greengriff,
Not quite sure what your goal is here? Is it to try and boot camp him into catching up with the others or have fun hanging out with you?
Not sure how good a skier you are, but I'd have thought just going skiing with him, having fun, hanging out, and playing in the snow would be a pretty good thing for a 7 year old. Ski school isn't necessarily the answer for more than a few hours at least (as I think was previously mentioned)
I pulled my son out of ski school as a 4 year old (on the advice of a top ski instructor) as he hated it, and we just went skiing, having hot chocolate, goofing around, jumping off stuff, hiking up, etc, until he was 7 - good fun, great to spend the time with him (no way I'd ski with him now!). Somehow didn't do his skiing any harm either as he now has freeride world tour ambitions! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| stuarth wrote: |
@greengriff,
Not quite sure what your goal is here? Is it to try and boot camp him into catching up with the others or have fun hanging out with you?
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My goal is for him to love it like the others do.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| greengriff wrote: |
| gilo wrote: |
| You’re over thinking it and being too cautious because you started the others too early. (IMHO). 7 is the perfect age to go on holiday and go in smallish group lessons. They don’t need a head start, they just need a fun adventurous environment and a competitive spirit. Simples. |
Is there such a thing as too early? Because of the early start my eldest 2 have been able to properly enjoy a ski holiday from around 5 years old, which has been wonderful to see and be part of. |
Not sure why 5 would be too early. Ours started younger (4 & 3).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think you're over-thinking this a bit. Or rather, you're thinking that what you did with your other two kids worked really well, and so are worried because you can't do the same with this one due to budget/location constraints.
As I said, in my experience most kids don't do loads of dome lessons before going to the mountains. Certainly all my (French) friends who ski learned to ski on the mountains, usually when they were young, and almost all through ESF group lessons.
It will be different to your first mountain holidays* with your other two kids, because this one will probably not be up for skiing all day, so as I and others have said you do need to adjust your expectations a little bit. You'll be able to ski in the morning when they're in ski school, and then maybe do a few gentle runs with them in the afternoon, but probably not every day.
*deliberately phrasing it like this instead of "skiing holiday", since I think it's a more accurate description of what the first few will be like.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| greengriff wrote: |
| I tend to only take the kids on holiday one at a time now anyway, after a disaster at Sestriere a few years back when my daughter fell and twisted her leg whilst she was behind me and my son (who had ignored my exhortations to control his speed) was far ahead of me. It took me maybe 20 minutes to climb back up a steep black to get to her, and when I eventually sorted her out and found my son he was freezing cold and terrified having sat on his own for ~45 minutes. If we hadn't had a rule of sitting by the number 1 post and waiting for each other then it could have been a lot more of a headache. Bad parenting as they were about 6 and 7 at the time, but you live and learn. Now with only one kid to keep an eye on it's a lot more pleasurable. |
Having gone out with two youngsters occasionally I can vouch for it being a bit of a headache. My son had a penchant for heading off into the sunset. I don't think it's necessarily bad parenting given you had a rule and he followed it - even if he didn't check back and see the problem earlier. Once they are a bit older it's less of an issue but it's easy for me to say as normally there is me and the wife. To be honest I still feel a heavy responsibility even with one!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I second @stuarth, lot's of goofing around.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Even now, we view our ski holidays as winter holidays with skiing - we tend to ski 8.30am-2pm, then spend the afternoon doing other stuff (or just chilling). If the kids have had 2-3hrs of lessons and been concentrating, they are mentally tired as well as physically tired.
Have you considered all doing boarding together instead? That might level the playing field.
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^ this
If not this, then it's all pointless.
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| snowdave wrote: |
Have you considered all doing boarding together instead? That might level the playing field. |
The main problem with that is that the kids get 1 week a year on snow if they are lucky, so starting something else from scratch is just going to be a drag on their time. I'd rather just get the littlest one skiing. A smaller issue is that I can already snowboard to a good standard, so 'family boarding' would be boring as hell for me. Plus which, my wife boarded for 20 years, never really liked it but did it because everyone she knew did it, then tried skiing and took to it like a duck to water. So anything involving snowboarding is going to be a very tough sell to her.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
^ this
If not this, then it's all pointless. |
Yes indeed. That's my core goal.
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IME.It depends.
- It depends on the Kid
- It depends on the Instructor and how they relate to your Child
- It depends on the resort/weather/snow
If your Child is gregarious and sporty, lessons can work - though my experience with ESF has not been great. Evo 2 in E.K much better (and indeed the International Ski School). My eldest 2 (Girl/Boy) started in classes.
Once my Kids stopped getting anything from Group lessons, they did better with 3 or 4 Private lessons - always with a native English speaker. We would ring the Ski School well in advance, and discuss the needs of the child and the character of available Instructors - and try and get a good match.
My third child did miss out at the start, so we went the private lesson route - as he has dyspraxia and is shy. A discussion with the Ski school meant we ended up with a gentle "Bomb proof" instructor for him....and a lively, fun instructor for the other two. Worked brilliantly.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think you're right in not going down the snowboard route (yet! Bless'd be the one true edge). Just from your group dynamic point of view, Jnr will be wanting to go all 'monkey see, monkey do' with the older sibs, and him being on a board will just lead to frustration up and down the group. Seen that from our ski group dynamic.
Leave it until he's at least middle competent on skis and then chuck them all onto the truly Righteous Path (No, not joining the tele-tubbies brigade @limegreen1 - clue is in the thread title - "Fast" and "Enjoy")
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| I Bless'd be the one true edge)) |
Lol. The older and creakier I get, the less inclined I am to engage in the constant strapping in and out, or get a damp back bottom from sitting to do it.
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