 Poster: A snowHead
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
| @Roguevfr, his £45 was for the insurance... |
yup - I just checked, it was actually £48 for both vehicles we rented. 1 car & 1 minivan.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Roguevfr wrote: |
@MrEgg sorry you find it confusing. Many things in life are. Maybe take an adult , or someone you trust along to explain it to you in future.
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I find nothing confusing. Have you looked into car rental policies? you can purchase identical cover to what hire companies sell at hugely inflated prices.
My own motor insurance policy also covers me for any vehicle I am driving (with permission!). - Which may not be the same for everyone. However, I would still need excess insurance - but I would prefer not to claim on my personal car insurance!
CDW & LDW usually come with the car when hiring from europe providing you are booking via the european website. Hence you find a cheaper price by going to Hertz.com rather than Hertz.co.uk, as the later gives basic cover compared to the former who give no cover.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| Arctic Roll wrote: |
| @Roguevfr, his £45 was for the insurance... |
yup - I just checked, it was actually £48 for both vehicles we rented. 1 car & 1 minivan. |
Gosh that's amazing! 3rd party cover on a large number of the most valuable and costly items to insure (people).
I'm genuinely surprisingly glad that you didn't have to make a claim against that policy.
I'm 100% serious when I say that I think you dodged a bullet there, congratulations on " getting away with one ".
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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so going back to the OP, who wanted a rental co. that doesn't do all the hard sell faff at the desk when collecting the car, the simplest and recommended solution is to just cave in and buy all the hard sell extras?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| philwig wrote: |
| Quote: |
| MOST of the rental companies whose customers were surveyed showed at least 800+ out of a 1000 responding as " satisfied" with their experience |
No, that's not what it says.
It states very clearly that they scored the results on a "1,000-point scale", which is a very different thing.
They do not say how many people were surveyed, or what percentage of them were "satisfied".
JD Power is an industry organisation, not a consumer organisation. The companies they profile pay them money.
| andy wrote: |
so going back to the OP, who wanted a rental co. that doesn't do all the hard sell faff at the desk when collecting the car,
the simplest and recommended solution is to just cave in and buy all the hard sell extras? |
 Or (as per the second post in the thread) join one of the major company loyalty schemes, which allow you to skip the rental desk altogether. I'm doing this already. You won't get the cheapest price, but avoiding the time-waste is worth a few quid. .
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You may well be correct that I've misinterpreted the data, as the original poster who submitted it did, nevertheless, based on the data provided, the companies were ranked in order of satisfactory responses from customers, and is therefore statistically valid.
The J.D. Power North America Rental Car Satisfaction StudySM measures customer satisfaction with the entire airport rental car experience, from reservation to vehicle return.
It DOES state quite clearly how many customers were asked .
How exactly should one interpret a score of 850 out of 1000 ? By their own statistics, however they are interpreted, they show a ranking.
Obviously the industry would pay JD Power to produce such a survey , who else would commission it , the NFL ?
Are you suggesting that regardless of the customer polling, they're basing their results on which company paid them to produce a favourable result?
Presumably there is some follow up to those polled, in order to check the validity of the poll. Seems rather a waste of resources to bother asking the public at all .
This seems to be veering toward Trumpian levels of facts.
Lies, damned lies and statistics.
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@Roguevfr, just curious, what would be the price which you WOULD consider a ripoff for 1) CDW on a midsize car; 2) child seat hire?
1) 20 euro/day? 30? 50? 100? 200?
2) 10 euro/day? 20? 30? 50?
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| horizon wrote: |
@Roguevfr, just curious, what would be the price which you WOULD consider a ripoff for 1) CDW on a midsize car; 2) child seat hire?
1) 20 euro/day? 30? 50? 100? 200?
2) 10 euro/day? 20? 30? 50? |
I'm neither an owner , employee, or operator of such a business , and as such am in no position to answer, nor have any inclination to answer.
What you or I might consider a rip-off is entirely down to personal opinion, and subjective to say the least.
My personal feeling would be that it should be in the range of 10 to 15% of the total cost of the rental for CDW, but that leads on to the actual rental price of the car, which is artificially and historically low. (In my opinion, of course) . Or was .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Oh well prompted by this thread I've just booked a car speculatively for Xmas in the US. No poo-poo the prices are eyewatering by historic standards - about £100 per day with Avis for a basic car thru Priceline (and yes that's with zero excess LDW). Fortunately Sixt seem to be on a bit of a market grab - the downside is limited mileage but the overage rates aren't stupid and come in much better. That delta makes the difference between a holiday or not.
If you're even thinking of the US or Canada I'd say hold a reservation early, you can always cancel if things return to more normal.
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| Roguevfr wrote: |
| ... It DOES state quite clearly how many customers were asked. |
Where does it say that, please ? I can't find it anywhere.
| Roguevfr wrote: |
| ... Obviously the industry would pay JD Power to produce such a survey , who else would commission it , the NFL ? |
Typically you'd look at consumer organisations, for example "Which" in the UK or "Consumer Reports" in the US for this type of information.
They're independent of the industry and represent consumers, not industry.
Your approach is rather like asking the tobacco industry how safe it is to smoke.
You're misusing the data when you imply it represents actual customer satisfaction as some sort of percentage.
Their text explains that the data is used for comparison within the industry; it's not an absolute metric.
You're incorrect in assuming it somehow represents the perspective of consumers.
Statistics do not "lie", but as you've shown they can easily be misunderstood and misused by those who
decide what they want to show first, then look for numbers to back it up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Oh well prompted by this thread I've just booked a car speculatively for Xmas in the US. No poo-poo the prices are eyewatering by historic standards - about £100 per day with Avis for a basic car thru Priceline (and yes that's with zero excess LDW). Fortunately Sixt seem to be on a bit of a market grab - the downside is limited mileage but the overage rates aren't stupid and come in much better. That delta makes the difference between a holiday or not.
If you're even thinking of the US or Canada I'd say hold a reservation early, you can always cancel if things return to more normal. |
Eye watering ? I was renting a Ford sapphire for £ 79 a day Inc cdw and unlimited mileage in 1997. Far more in line with where it should be, and in all probability will be until the entire world economy settles down again. Comparable prices for every possible consumer priced item over the same period would show massive increases, except perhaps airline travel, which is in its own little bubble (as distinct from package holidays in general).
Have a good Christmas.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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When I saw the cost of child seat hire I bought 2 lightweight ones from Amazon for less than the price of a weeks rental. They fitted nicely into my double ski roller.
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| philwig wrote: |
| Roguevfr wrote: |
| ... It DOES state quite clearly how many customers were asked. |
Where does it say that, please ? I can't find it anywhere.
| Roguevfr wrote: |
| ... Obviously the industry would pay JD Power to produce such a survey , who else would commission it , the NFL ? |
Typically you'd look at consumer organisations, for example "Which" in the UK or "Consumer Reports" in the US for this type of information.
They're independent of the industry and represent consumers, not industry.
Your approach is rather like asking the tobacco industry how safe it is to smoke.
You're misusing the data when you imply it represents actual customer satisfaction as some sort of percentage.
Their text explains that the data is used for comparison within the industry; it's not an absolute metric.
You're incorrect in assuming it somehow represents the perspective of consumers.
Statistics do not "lie", but as you've shown they can easily be misunderstood and misused by those who
decide what they want to show first, then look for numbers to back it up. |
Thanks for the lecture, the data you can't find is clearly indicated in the linked document you're referring to.
The data specifically states that customers were asked how satisfied they were with the entire rental experience, and asked to rank it on a scale.
The comparison is not " is x better than y?" until the responses which were positive (or negative) for both x and y are compared
If the question(s) asked to the consumers do not reflect the perspective of the consumers, then who's perspectives do they reflect , given the people asked the questions?
Your tobacco analogy is poor , for such a talented statistician as yourself.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Roguevfr wrote: |
| horizon wrote: |
@Roguevfr, just curious, what would be the price which you WOULD consider a ripoff for 1) CDW on a midsize car; 2) child seat hire?
1) 20 euro/day? 30? 50? 100? 200?
2) 10 euro/day? 20? 30? 50? |
I'm neither an owner , employee, or operator of such a business , and as such am in no position to answer, nor have any inclination to answer. |
I'm asking you as a consumer. You don't have to answer, of course. But I thought you would have an opinion, given your strong recommendation for people to buy the CDW as it's a great deal.
(Surely there IS a price point at which it stops being a great deal?)
| Roguevfr wrote: |
What you or I might consider a rip-off is entirely down to personal opinion, and subjective to say the least. |
Agreed. I'm asking for your personal opinion.
| Roguevfr wrote: |
| My personal feeling would be that it should be in the range of 10 to 15% of the total cost of the rental for CDW, but that leads on to the actual rental price of the car, which is artificially and historically low. (In my opinion, of course) . Or was . |
You rock up at the rental desk of a major car rental operator, having paid the rate they advertised for a midsize car. They quote you €x/day for CDW, and €y/day for a child seat. For which values of x and y would you feel that they're ripping you off?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| horizon wrote: |
| Roguevfr wrote: |
| horizon wrote: |
@Roguevfr, just curious, what would be the price which you WOULD consider a ripoff for 1) CDW on a midsize car; 2) child seat hire?
1) 20 euro/day? 30? 50? 100? 200?
2) 10 euro/day? 20? 30? 50? |
I'm neither an owner , employee, or operator of such a business , and as such am in no position to answer, nor have any inclination to answer. |
I'm asking you as a consumer. You don't have to answer, of course. But I thought you would have an opinion, given your strong recommendation for people to buy the CDW as it's a great deal.
(Surely there IS a price point at which it stops being a great deal?)
| Roguevfr wrote: |
What you or I might consider a rip-off is entirely down to personal opinion, and subjective to say the least. |
Agreed. I'm asking for your personal opinion.
| Roguevfr wrote: |
| My personal feeling would be that it should be in the range of 10 to 15% of the total cost of the rental for CDW, but that leads on to the actual rental price of the car, which is artificially and historically low. (In my opinion, of course) . Or was . |
You rock up at the rental desk of a major car rental operator, having paid the rate they advertised for a midsize car. They quote you €x/day for CDW, and €y/day for a child seat. For which values of x and y would you feel that they're ripping you off? |
I've stated my opinion in my previous answer , it's just there above, in the quoted part ^ . I never in any previous post in this thread stated ANYWHERE that I thought it was a great deal.
I did advise that the renter / hirer bought it in order to absolve any liability for the excess. Whether that is from the rental company, or an outside source is for the individual to choose.
That is still my opinion .
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Roguevfr,
You are rayscoops and I'll not bother claiming my $10 as I know I'll never see it
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My personal experience has been good with car rental comps apart from in Bulgaria. We were hit from behind in Sofia and lost our excess fee which we had to pay up front for even though it wasn't my fault. Then we waited hours to be picked up and taken back to base and given another car. Had a lovely 3hr drive in 1 metre vis in the night after. That was scary as fcuk!
Roguevfr, I don't mind you using my exp as an example and ever since that day I've always taken out cdw. It's not been that expensive and when trying to arrange insurance separately, it was way more expensive for a one off car rental. Never really had a hard sell or anything like that just straight to the point, take it or leave it attitude. I recently booked with sixt too but had to cancel due to covid. No issues there either. I thought 3 days with a mustang inc cdw for $230 was damn good. Shame as I was really looking forward to driving down sunset blvd in a 'stang!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks for your reply, a non critical response is rather refreshing. Your Bulgaria experience may well be "non accident" since its well known that such incidents are staged in certain countries in order to make fraudulent insurance claims.
Rental company branding is often removed from fleet cars for this exact reason to make them less visible. It's not unknown for those involved simply to follow hired cars away from airports though. (Cue the conspiracy theorists)...
Regarding the American hire. My wife's always been keen on Mustangs, and we've driven several older models through Death Valley, Pacific Coast road.
Can't say I'm a fan . I think they're far more iconic than actual fun to drive. I've much preferred both the Camaro, and the Dodge Challenger to the mustangs I've driven, but neither of those are a patch on a decent European car, although they do sound good.
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| Roguevfr wrote: |
| ... It DOES state quite clearly how many customers were asked. |
| Philw wrote: |
| Where does it say that, please ? I can't find it anywhere. |
| Roguevfr wrote: |
... ... the data you can't find is clearly indicated in the linked document you're referring to.
The data specifically states that customers were asked how satisfied they were with the entire rental experience, and asked to rank it on a scale. ... |
No. It does not anywhere mention the sample size.
It's strange of you to lie even about things which aren't really material.
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| philwig wrote: |
| Roguevfr wrote: |
| ... It DOES state quite clearly how many customers were asked. |
| Philw wrote: |
| Where does it say that, please ? I can't find it anywhere. |
| Roguevfr wrote: |
... ... the data you can't find is clearly indicated in the linked document you're referring to.
The data specifically states that customers were asked how satisfied they were with the entire rental experience, and asked to rank it on a scale. ... |
No. It does not anywhere mention the sample size.
It's strange of you to lie even about things which aren't really material. |
I'll await your apology.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry to drift but yes Roguevfr, I really enjoyed driving a Challenger RT too though it was here in the UK but the pleasure of driving a ragtop stang V8 from LA to TJ and back was just awesome. Still, I wouldn't trade my Scooby for either of them.
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Back to the thread, the chap who hit me anticipated wrongly that I was about to pull out at a roundabout in the pouring rain while cars were speeding like loonies. I saw an opening but hesitated as the car was horsepoo and had no guts. He saw the opening and assumed I went for it then rear ended us. I think he was a knob more than anything as the cost was 120e in the end.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I always used to self insure on car rentals and decline the CDW. Four years ago my work started to offer a very well priced travel insurance package, which was perfect and very cheap for ski holidays - and as a bonus also had excess cover insurance - something I’d first been tipped off on here, but found I never quite got around to sorting out.
That year was also the first time I had a prang, aquaplaning into the back of someone at traffic lights in Mexico - v low speed, but managed to peel off the front wing. I was in the hole for $800 , but the insurance proved itself, and all was covered painlessly
So a very happy experience ... until I can to do my next years personal car insurance renewal, and realised I had to declare it. Cue elevated premiums for the next five years (and yes I do religiously shop for the best deal each year). I think the increased cost from that will way offset any savings a excess insurance policy will give over a CDW
Obviously your mileage may vary (sorry ...) depending on the state of your no claims etc ...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've had different experiences with the same rental company at different locations. Avis at Zurich Airport were good. Avis at GVA much less. One time (Swiss side, so had winter tires and chains in the boot) in April they were hell bent on selling us chains. It hadn't snowed for more than a week and it was quite warm but tried quite at length to convice me we won't make it to the resort without chains (police won't let you). Other time tried to get us a Golf instead of a Passat. The worst was when we left the car undamaged at the drop off at night. The next day I received a demand of payment for a very nasty scrape on the side and the back wheel. I have Avis Preferred and I also had a no excess insurance (included wheels, paid extra). I also had taken pictures of the car when I left. It took a few emails but in the end their lawyers (or claims adjustors) sent a letter telling me that I owed nothing. Best guess their driver did it and tried to getout of it. Still bothered me that the "bullet proof" insurance wasn't quite all that. Munich Airport is quite erratic for both Avis and Europcar. It really depends on the person on duty. I've had good service, but also bad. On pick up once they tried to get me to agree to a Berlingo (ordered a Superb) and once they tried to convince me to drive off with a cracked windscreen (that wasn't even marked on their form). Another time at drop off the guy made a fuss about an almost invisible pebble damage. He backed off when I started taking photos. At Munich the drop off is the same for all companies, so maybe it was just one guy that was ober zealous or out to make a quota
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You know it makes sense.
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Yep. Man rents car, man damages car. Man has hassle getting money back from insurance. Usual story.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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well I just looked at prices for a trip to Sicily later this year (fingers crossed).
Tried Hertz without logging in to my account, £150 for the std compact, £202 for a medium whatever.
Logged in to get my member "discount", then doesn't even offer the compact (call us for a price) and the cheapest is exactly the same medium car but at £362 for exactly the same dates. Guess the free additional driver isn't that free.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Roguevfr wrote: |
Yep. Man rents car, man damages car. Man has hassle getting money back from insurance. Car company can't prove out its costs. Man gets all money back. Usual story. |
FIFY
Do you really not see the point in this illustration? A guy who had fessed up to the damage ending up getting all his money back from Hertz because they had just charged him a made up number for the damage. A simple invoice for the replacement tyre fully fitted would no doubt have seen them back to a fair position.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Roguevfr wrote: |
Yep. Man rents car, man damages car. Man has hassle getting money back from insurance. Car company can't prove out its costs. Man gets all money back. Usual story. |
FIFY
Do you really not see the point in this illustration? A guy who had fessed up to the damage ending up getting all his money back from Hertz because they had just charged him a made up number for the damage. A simple invoice for the replacement tyre fully fitted would no doubt have seen them back to a fair position. |
I see that's your point , yes.
I also see in both yours, and the richb67 posts comments on a company I don't rate, and which was going through financial ruin, both the need to prioritise something else other than 3rd party insurance paperwork and the need to maximise income.
I'm fairly sure the cost of the tyre fitted wasn't considerably different from the invoiced amount , but and you're hanging all your beliefs in that.
The reason for the amounts refunded in the article, and the causes for the end result are pure speculation, and only after considerable hassle the man had to suffer , as i think I'd mentioned was possible before.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| richb67 wrote: |
well I just looked at prices for a trip to Sicily later this year (fingers crossed).
...Logged in to get my member "discount", then doesn't even ... Guess the free additional driver isn't that free. |
Sad but useful to hear that the "membership" thing doesn't hold any real value in terms of rental cost.
I've rented in Sicily. I got upgraded to a "fat" Fiat 500, which was about 1cm narrower than the medieval route through Ragusa.
I think the standard car would have been easier. The narrowest bit is on an angle and was very well scarred with paint from cars driven
by less careful people. It was close to midnight and no traffic, but that section was exceptionally tight. it's easy to avoid, but the best
hotel is on that route, and the Michelin starred restaurant (same ownership) is close by.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As I deal with a rental car company here in spain I thought of this thread.
I recently contracted covid and so had to isolate and extend my contract, the rental company kindly agreed, at only 8 times the previous daily rate. Only reinforced my view that they will screw you over if they can, so if you get a chance to return the favour, go for it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| jimmer wrote: |
As I deal with a rental car company here in spain I thought of this thread.
I recently contracted covid and so had to isolate and extend my contract, the rental company kindly agreed, at only 8 times the previous daily rate. Only reinforced my view that they will screw you over if they can, so if you get a chance to return the favour, go for it. |
Best not thinking it of a simple supply of services but rather a game of chess against a not very bright but very aggressive opponent. If you leave an opening they will totally exploit it ruthlessly even while they are ineffectually making up their own rules elsewhere.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| jimmer wrote: |
As I deal with a rental car company here in spain I thought of this thread.
I recently contracted covid and so had to isolate and extend my contract, the rental company kindly agreed, at only 8 times the previous daily rate. Only reinforced my view that they will screw you over if they can, so if you get a chance to return the favour, go for it. |
Best not thinking it of a simple supply of services but rather a game of chess against a not very bright but very aggressive opponent. If you leave an opening they will totally exploit it ruthlessly even while they are ineffectually making up their own rules elsewhere. |
That's a great analogy.
The pricing structure is stupid and relies on screwing people when they slip up or are unlucky.
In fairness, we are all (well a lot of us) partly to blame for the structure by focusing on headline price.
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| jedster wrote: |
In fairness, we are all (well a lot of us) partly to blame for the structure by focusing on headline price. |
Yep but hence we go back to the OP's point that without clear differentiation between operators on honesty and the complexity of owned v franchised standards and comeback - it is extremely difficult to reach other criteria.
The industry has decided that it wants to compete on headline price rather than good experiences and given demand vs supply issues no one is breaking from the pack to establish everyday "fair" pricing and no hassle as a differentiator. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity to repivot to a different model/reputation but it might involve giving up some of the pricetaking behaviour.
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FAQ
