Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Hacking Car Hire

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just curious, doesn't everyone take out the fully comp insurance on a rental? I never took it once with an enterprise car and the second driver 'forgot' he was driving on the right and careened into 5 parked cars and wrote off our rental. Always take out insurance since then but I never rent for more than a few days.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
MorningGory wrote:
That's not what I meant as you well know. I'm referring to the excess protection that was being discussed.


which bit is it I've misunderstood ? I suggested that it was a farcical idea, and posed another query.

In the only example in which I can speak confidently, the company involved does not hold any " insurance policy " on which they make claims of any sort as this would be virtually uninsurable and would result in a massive amount of administration to administer claims onto the insurer.

There are legal positions which cover the 3rd party requirements of operating their business , but essentially all claims are paid from the income generated in the business. Basically paying for ALL losses, 3rd party claims, write-offs , everything.
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Gainz wrote:
Just curious, doesn't everyone take out the fully comp insurance on a rental? I never took it once with an enterprise car and the second driver 'forgot' he was driving on the right and careened into 5 parked cars and wrote off our rental. Always take out insurance since then but I never rent for more than a few days.


Evidently not, it's a con apparently.
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Quote:

I wonder how much a regular insurance company would charge for a one day insurance cover on an " any driver allowed" basis, given they charge a minimum of £25 simply to change details , add a driver , do basic administration?

Most commercial fleet policies are based on “any driver over 25” or “any driver over 21”. The lower the minimum age, the higher the premium. Drivers under the stated minimum can be named add-ons for an extra cost.
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
dode wrote:
Quote:

I wonder how much a regular insurance company would charge for a one day insurance cover on an " any driver allowed" basis, given they charge a minimum of £25 simply to change details , add a driver , do basic administration?

Most commercial fleet policies are based on “any driver over 25” or “any driver over 21”. The lower the minimum age, the higher the premium. Drivers under the stated minimum can be named add-ons for an extra cost.


Of course that's true, but it doesn't indicate the cost, and premium would be based on fleet size and usage " any driver" rarely means any driver in the same way as it would for a rental company. Any driver in your employment or driving with your permission in the operation of your business might not cover anyone who happens to possess a current licence driving anywhere or not for use other than company use. .
There's probably not that many companies who have as many vehicles on the road as car rental . Royal mail perhaps , or distribution companies ?
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Roguevfr wrote:
Gainz wrote:
Just curious, doesn't everyone take out the fully comp insurance on a rental? I never took it once with an enterprise car and the second driver 'forgot' he was driving on the right and careened into 5 parked cars and wrote off our rental. Always take out insurance since then but I never rent for more than a few days.


Evidently not, it's a con apparently.


Excess cover is not in any way priced proportionately to a private motor insurance policy and materially higher than excess cover available via 3rd parties so it is certainly not competitve ergo a con particularly if extracted under duress or through misrepresentation.
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Roguevfr wrote:
Gainz wrote:
Just curious, doesn't everyone take out the fully comp insurance on a rental? I never took it once with an enterprise car and the second driver 'forgot' he was driving on the right and careened into 5 parked cars and wrote off our rental. Always take out insurance since then but I never rent for more than a few days.


Evidently not, it's a con apparently.


Its much cheaper to sort out your own insurance for a rental
You dont returm the car empty and accept their fuleing charges, so why pay a premium for them to arrange insurance?
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Roguevfr wrote:
Gainz wrote:
Just curious, doesn't everyone take out the fully comp insurance on a rental? I never took it once with an enterprise car and the second driver 'forgot' he was driving on the right and careened into 5 parked cars and wrote off our rental. Always take out insurance since then but I never rent for more than a few days.


Evidently not, it's a con apparently.


Excess cover is not in any way priced proportionately to a private motor insurance policy and materially higher than excess cover available via 3rd parties so it is certainly not competitve ergo a con particularly if extracted under duress or through misrepresentation.


Misrepresentation or " extraction under duress" is the position you have created in your mind
.
If you're so susceptible to this pressure , where you are unable to simply say " no thanks" then I have an ex royal yacht I'd like you to buy from me.

It's not directly comparable to your annually purchased insurance either, because that requires a commitment in advance, and is not available on an "ad hoc" basis , as it is at the rental location.

Its not competitively priced against your own private motor insurance because its not the same . Its apples and pears.

Why don't you ask Gainz if he wishes he'd purchased it, and even at that, whether the excess amount he was charged fully covered the actual costs incurred in the event of the accident his hire car was involved in?
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
...and it isn't a real product either as you've admitted that its basically a made up number to increase revenues for the rental company not an underwritten claculation....

To be honest with your attitude if I was renting a car from you I'd log on at Insurance4 car hire and buy the insurance in front of you if I didn't have it already probably. Would that be enough proof of insurance for you?
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I'd be thrilled if you insured the vehicle totally yourself. Save me from dealing with your pish altogether.
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
...and it isn't a real product either as you've admitted that its basically a made up number to increase revenues for the rental company not an underwritten claculation....

To be honest with your attitude if I was renting a car from you I'd log on at Insurance4 car hire and buy the insurance in front of you if I didn't have it already probably. Would that be enough proof of insurance for you?


It's not an underwritten calculation, because it is not technically insurance. It is a fee which removes your liability for the excess .

The term is Collision Damage Waiver, not " excess insurance cover" , but you can call it whatever you want ," get out of jail free card " or whatever.

However that idea or premise is explained to you in order that the renter understands it, is down to the company training.

Other terms or conditions may apply ,but that is my take on it. Whether you think it's value for money is another question, but it's still your choice whether you choose to pay it or not.
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Roguevfr wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
...and it isn't a real product either as you've admitted that its basically a made up number to increase revenues for the rental company not an underwritten claculation....

To be honest with your attitude if I was renting a car from you I'd log on at Insurance4 car hire and buy the insurance in front of you if I didn't have it already probably. Would that be enough proof of insurance for you?


It's not an underwritten calculation, because it is not technically insurance. It is a fee which removes your liability for the excess .

The term is Collision Damage Waiver, not " excess insurance cover" , but you can call it whatever you want ," get out of jail free card " or whatever.

However that idea or premise is explained to you in order that the renter understands it, is down to the company training.

Other terms or conditions may apply ,but that is my take on it. Whether you think it's value for money is another question, but it's still your choice whether you choose to pay it or not.


Indeed it is but it doesn't stop it coming with implied threats or dire warnings from the desk clerk as noted in the very first post in the thread.

I've noted that recently the excesses have been being pushed up from around 1500 to 3000 as well. More money making/ scare tactics from rental cos?
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Roguevfr wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
...and it isn't a real product either as you've admitted that its basically a made up number to increase revenues for the rental company not an underwritten claculation....

To be honest with your attitude if I was renting a car from you I'd log on at Insurance4 car hire and buy the insurance in front of you if I didn't have it already probably. Would that be enough proof of insurance for you?


It's not an underwritten calculation, because it is not technically insurance. It is a fee which removes your liability for the excess .

The term is Collision Damage Waiver, not " excess insurance cover" , but you can call it whatever you want ," get out of jail free card " or whatever.

However that idea or premise is explained to you in order that the renter understands it, is down to the company training.

Other terms or conditions may apply ,but that is my take on it. Whether you think it's value for money is another question, but it's still your choice whether you choose to pay it or not.


Indeed it is but it doesn't stop it coming with implied threats or dire warnings from the desk clerk as noted in the very first post in the thread.

I've noted that recently the excesses have been being pushed up from around 1500 to 3000 as well. More money making/ scare tactics from rental cos?


If having an accident while renting the car was likely to cause you severe financial penalties wouldn't you want the clerk to make it very clear what the implications to you were ? I certainly would, and I'm sure the unfortunate Gainz might wish he'd given it more thought.

By the way @Gainz, I apologise if you feel I'm using you as a pawn in my discussion/disagreement to make a point , but you did post a pertinent scenario where it showed the other side of the problem. My apologies again if you regret my use of your post in this way.

Anyway...

As I've repeatedly said , your interpretation of this conversation is biased to your beliefs.
Nothing I or anyone else post is likely to change your mind on that,and you have to deal with that aspect of the transaction in such way as you see fit.
Pay it or don't, its still your choice.

Banging on about it because you don't like it serves no useful purpose because its not going to change however much you stamp your wee foot.

As for the increase in excess , again, I'd say that's probably due to the increased cost of repairs being greater than the maximum excess in many cases, and would seem like an extra incentive to make absolutely sure that I waivered that potential liability if I was the one going to be liable.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Roguevfr, you seem to fundamentally fail to understand the main point. It’s not that people aren’t happy to pay for extra insurance or accept an excess charge. The problem, and it’s endemic, is that the perception of both the CDM and the excess charges are nothing but a money making scam.

If this thread has proved nothing else, it is that most people feel like this.

Whether you like it or not, the solution to this perception can ONLY be rectified by the car rental industry. This can be achieved either by stopping the hard selling, making CDM mandatory, being more upfront about the cost early on, or indeed stop scamming people if it is unnecessary.
latest report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Timmycb5 wrote:
@Roguevfr, you seem to fundamentally fail to understand the main point. It’s not that people aren’t happy to pay for extra insurance or accept an excess charge. The problem, and it’s endemic, is that the perception of both the CDM and the excess charges are nothing but a money making scam.

If this thread has proved nothing else, it is that most people feel like this.

Whether you like it or not, the solution to this perception can ONLY be rectified by the car rental industry. This can be achieved either by stopping the hard selling, making CDM mandatory, being more upfront about the cost early on, or indeed stop scamming people if it is unnecessary.


To be blunt, the industry doesn't really care whether 5 people on a forum complain about a practice or procedure - they've turned over 100000 transactions in the time you've been nursing your grievance, and the number of unhappy customers is presumably far lower than the number who were satisfied.

In the main, they're making a good profit and operating a successful business. If they really wanted to , they could massively increase the rental costs since there is a significant " captive audience " factor in a large portion of their business. Whether thats they way they want to operate it or not, it's true.

The true cost of a car rental for a day should probably be around £100 for a regular mid sized car. Whether the public would still book at that price is debatable, but the cost of a room simply to sleep in overnight will easily exceed that, and a train journey from city to city will,, often cost that, and more.

Choose to pay it or hire a taxi, or walk, or get someone else to transfer you to your destination, or whatever, but if you're unhappy with the service then don't use it. Simple.

If you read the posts I've made I stated that:
1) when I worked in the job, the company I was employed by operated a " fully inclusive" price on car rental.
We also rented vans, which had a £600 excess, based on the fact that many people had never driven a commercial vehicle before, and the incidence and potential for damage was much greater than it was for a car. This was fully explained to the customer, and a waiver was available at a reasonable cost. Most opted to purchase the waiver, which may not have been the best financial benefit to the company, as there was a fairly high incidence of damage.

2) I strongly recommend that you, the renter , purchase the waiver. This is my advice to you, the renter.

3) the responses in the thread prove that people who've had reason to be aggrieved by the service think its a money making scam, the people who've had perfectly satisfactory rentals don't have nearly as much to say about it, and presumably think it's a good idea, and was value for money ..

4) I'm sure people who have had an accident where they're 100% honest about it, and agree it was fully their fault think choosing to pay the waiver was an excellent idea, and worth every penny.

5) I'm sure people who have had an accident where they're 100% honest about it, and agree it was fully their fault think choosing not to pay the waiver was a bad idea, and might in hindsight think it would have been worth every penny.

I think that one company alone sets the highest standards, and is frequently the winner in " best customer satisfaction " surveys. I'd suggest you use them as that's who I'd use, given what I know of the company and it's procedures. They're ethically run, and treat their staff well and do a " lot of great work for charideee " .

Sharp practices and cons exist in every business, and while I don't think they're nearly as widespread as you all think they are they undoubtedly do , it's all a matter of opinion to what extent and in what manner.

For example, if you were buying a house and requested a survey to be done on the house, you'd instruct that to be done, and pay a significant amount for that service .
Subsequent potential buyers might well enquire with the same surveyor for the same house, and be charged the same full amount for the survey, despite the surveyor doing no work whatsoever,other than get the secretary to Xerox off another copy. Yet the second and subsequent surveys cost the same as the first .
You might well think that was a complete scam, and I might be of the same opinion. I believe there's legislation which might have changed this, but it's simply an illustration.

Builders, motor car garages and literally any profession will have its share of scammers or con artists, and in those circumstances I'd suggest people went to a reputable company, and were sure they were aware of the costs or ramifications involved. Only then can you make an advised decision on whether or not to proceed.

Even if its in no way a "scam" simply thinking that a cost is excessive doesn't make it a scam or a con , its just a price you don't think is reasonable.

Whether or not you consider the cdw part of the cost of the hire or not, and value for money or not , you have to admit that the basic price for the rental of the vehicle is incredibly good value for money,for what you are receiving. It has NOT increased at all from what I was charging in the days of escorts and orions,sierras and sapphires and indeed is very often less, despite the 300% increase in the cost of the car, and anything else from there is upon your decision.
latest report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
He seems to fail to understand there is alternatives to paying the hire company insurance.
Slanted view, probably cos selling insurance is commission based.

Do I make sure I am fully covered hiring? Yes
Do I buy the hire company Insurance? No

Collision Damage Waiver, Loss Damage Waiver, Liability Insurance. How they are sold individually is quite misleading by the hire company, when 3rd party insurance companies offer it all under 1 umbrella package.

Last hire for a mini van was £45 for a week with 3rd party company, while the rental company wanted near £400. Buying insurance from hire company is a scam. A scam to pray on the less well informed.
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mr.Egg wrote:
He seems to fail to understand there is alternatives to paying the hire company insurance.
Slanted view, probably cos selling insurance is commission based.

Do I make sure I am fully covered hiring? Yes
Do I buy the hire company Insurance? No

Collision Damage Waiver, Loss Damage Waiver, Liability Insurance. How they are sold individually is quite misleading by the hire company, when 3rd party insurance companies offer it all under 1 umbrella package.

Last hire for a mini van was £45 for a week with 3rd party company, while the rental company wanted near £400. Buying insurance from hire company is a scam. A scam to pray on the less well informed.


I'm better informed that you think, and certainly better informed than you.

I call bull dookey on your "last rental for £45" , and if you think that's a realistic price, then you're lucky you got back out of that vehicle with all your limbs intact.
snow conditions
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Roguevfr, his £45 was for the insurance...
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
... Indeed it is but it doesn't stop it coming with implied threats or dire warnings from the desk clerk as noted in the very first post in the thread.
I've noted that recently the excesses have been being pushed up from around 1500 to 3000 as well. More money making/ scare tactics from rental cos?
Indeed. In my case they tried to scare me with an excess of €9,000, significantly more than the value of the rental vehicle.

On reflection I think I will complain to the prime contractor (Iceland Air) about my recent experience.
Debating rude people at the rental desk or in this forum achieves nothing, Iceland Air's legal people will need to be much more responsive.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The problem with people who hire cars is that they don`t usually treat them as their own. So incidences are more likely to happen. I have an annual excess insurance just for that piece of mind, but still feel I`m getting fleeced.

But in the end we are all human. I always remember back in the "days" when I got myself a brand new XR3i and it went in for its first service, and I was lent a Renault Fuego for the day. I was based at Condor, and there`s a runway there. I wouldn`t ordinarily have taken the XR3i on it, but it was a "loan" car so we thought lets give it go see what it can do. Ended up driving over a glider toe line. Lucky boys that we didn`t de capitate ourselves. Handed the car back the next day, and said nothing.

How many times have we all done that at the Car hire desk, and prayed!!
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@Roguevfr, I'm not sure I've seen anyone in this thread, other than yourself, saying that purchasing the waiver from the hire company is the way to go. Consensus is to get insurance but to do so from a 3rd party to avoid having your pants pulled down.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'd suggest our combatant reads this simple guide which sets things out admirably clearly for the consumer. It maybe that he was relatively unique in the car rental industry in receiving a flat wage with no bonuses, targets or commissions for upsells. If so it sounds like that practice is not universal so perhaps his perspective is somewhat skewed.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-car-hire/
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Since we're still doing this, due to another numpty. Here's a couple more things I'd like to add :
In my post about items or costs which may be chargeable against a rental/ from the person liable for the excess, and probably the largest/ highest : 3rd party costs - either the person who's car you've hit being repaired, their car needing replacement while this is happening, or the costs charged out by councils for damage to road furniture, bollards, posts or other damage. All chargeable in a claim against the rental company , or in the case of the excess, YOU.

@MrEgg sorry you find it confusing. Many things in life are. Maybe take an adult , or someone you trust along to explain it to you in future.

Some of you seem particularly hung up on exact definitions of certain phrases or sentences that occur frequently in this thread , so I'd like to address one a lot of you seem keen on " The Hard Sell"
A desk clerk asking you if you'd like to pay for the additional Waiver is NOT "the hard sell", even if he goes on to describe in lurid language the dire implications of the failure to do so. Even if your boundaries of tolerance have been long since exceeded , and you know it all.

No, "THE HARD SELL" is sitting in the Florida sunshine , in a location you cannot leave , on the promise of a "free" entry ticket to Disney, which you won't receive until after you've listened to a 6hour presentation by people trying to sell you a lifetime holiday club membership, all the while asking you questions to which the only reasonable answer is actually "YES".

that, or the shiny faced weasel in a drainpipe-legged blue suit, with pointy brown shoes, " Dave" let's call him , who's job title is "residence enhancement executive" . Dave, who's been sitting in your old Granny's front room for 6 hours while he tries desperately to convince her he's offering her a "once in a lifetime " never to be repeated deal , if only she'll sign up this afternoon, because he's arguing on the phone with his Boss to authorise it. He's going to reglaze her entire house and " throw in" a "free conservatory"into the bargain, and all your poor Granny has done is to be unwise enough to enquire about a nice new front door

THATS " The hard sell", not "would you like to take the additional Damage Waiver?"


Here's another point @MrEgg , others who spout forth on this point, and particularly @Dave of the Marmottes who's a vehement promoter of 3rd party Waiver insurance might like to give some thought:

Insurance companies worldwide are notorious for their indisputably infuriating ability to invent creative reasons and ways to evade paying out on apparently " cut and shut" claims. They take great pride in this.

So with that in mind.

You are a frequent renter, you buy an annual policy to cover you against " hire company insurance scams" for a very reasonable annual premium (GREAT VALUE FOR MONEY!)

Given that, the income the company receives from your premium is relatively low (GREAT VALUE FOR MONEY!),
The excess they are covering you against is many times the amount they charged you for your premium and is rising, perhaps to as much as £3000 per rental, or more as @Dave of the Marmottes helpfully points out,
And the occasions on which they are exposed to such liabilities are frequent (that's why you bought an annual policy GREAT VALUE FOR MONEY! )

What's more - almost every rental car is covered in many small potentially chargeable damages (after all SOMEBODY must be doing these damages , probably the hirer, right?)

SO to recap, low income stream value, high regularity of exposure to risk , (lots of hires, and lots of unconcerned drivers, leading to lots of potentially chargeable damage).

As the " insurance provider ", under those circumstances, I wouldn't be taking it on Dragon's Den as a business opportunity.
Low premium income versus high relative exposure to risk on multiple occasions . Hmm, I'm out I think...

You've just returned your hire car, you had a wee bump , nothing serious, but you know you've got the "magic card " in your pocket (GREAT VALUE FOR MONEY) and fully expect everything to come up smelling of roses, still risking dislocation by patting yourself on the back so hard..

It's almost laughable how much faith you converts to this idea have. Gullible one might say, but that can't be right because you're a smart enough cookie to see through all the rental company scams and cons, and you know your poo-poo, or maybe " you're" poo-poo.
What in the name of God's green apples makes you believe so fervently that the " insurance company" you paid a "REALLY REALLY GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY" premium to won't just behave EXACTLY as insurance companies worldwide are conditioned to do , and simply process your claim straight into the round file with "CLAIM REFUSED" rubber stamped in big RED LETTERS across the front ?

They'll send you out a covering letter to tell you this, complete with a direct debit offer for next years' (increased, but still REALLY GREAT VALUE FOR MONEY , HONESTLY!) Premium.

Or perhaps I'm just being cynical.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Fri 11-06-21 9:04; edited 1 time in total
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
philwig wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
... Indeed it is but it doesn't stop it coming with implied threats or dire warnings from the desk clerk as noted in the very first post in the thread.
I've noted that recently the excesses have been being pushed up from around 1500 to 3000 as well. More money making/ scare tactics from rental cos?
Indeed. In my case they tried to scare me with an excess of €9,000, significantly more than the value of the rental vehicle.

On reflection I think I will complain to the prime contractor (Iceland Air) about my recent experience.
Debating rude people at the rental desk or in this forum achieves nothing, Iceland Air's legal people will need to be much more responsive.


Hilarious.
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
@Roguevfr, I'm not sure I've seen anyone in this thread, other than yourself, saying that purchasing the waiver from the hire company is the way to go. Consensus is to get insurance but to do so from a 3rd party to avoid having your pants pulled down.


On the contrary, I've seen several people state that they always fully insure, or wished they had. Perhaps I should recalibrate my previous advice from " take the waiver" , to " take A waiver" . However, either is better than no waiver at all. (For the customer).
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Hmm the irony of someone pupporting to argue on behalf of the car rental industry debunking recommendations by leading consumer organisations with further scare stories and pointing at another industry full of cowboys saying "don't trust those guys"......

Sounding more and more like a protection racket with each post...."Shame you took out that 3rd party excess cover because now this pipe is definitely going to slip into your windscreen..."


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 11-06-21 9:58; edited 1 time in total
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Roguevfr wrote:
However, either is better than no waiver at all. (For the customer).


If the customer gets in a accident or the rental company claim they damaged the car. I've hired several cars without CDW or insurance of any kind and not had any issues at all because I've been careful with the car and the paperwork. I won't be doing it in the future because you've really open my eyes to what the default opinion of customers is in the industry.

And we're still doing this because you still keep responding with more crap.
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Wow, I thought I was cynical, you guys are something else. "Protection rackets " ? Jeezus.

I'm not arguing on behalf of the industry, but giving an opposing view to those arguing that all companies and operators are attempting to con you.
If you seriously believe that what I've suggested about insurance companies isn't true, then as I've said gullible is the best description for you.
I'll leave you to your beliefs. You're not worth the effort.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
[quote="Roguevfr"]
jedster wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
jedster wrote:

I think a lot of the problem is that (I think) a lot of these businesses are franchises and that means just because e.g., Europcar at airport a are straight shooters doesn't mean that Europcar at airport b will be. You end up feeling you can't rely on brand to predict satisfaction so what else do you pick on? Price


100% this. Plus dehassle yourself by picking additional protections freestyle from e.g. Insurance4carhire or getting a full inclusive price through a consolidator.


That's what I do but the dehassle is a bit imperfect when you need to make a claim![/quote

Answered this point earlier in the thread :
1) just saying that you have insurance doesn't mean you do. You have to show credible proof that it's in place.
2) even if you do, in the event of a claim being passed to the insurance due to you damaging the car/ (such circumstances as occur requiring a claim) you'll still be billed for the costs, and have to claim it back from your insurance, at your own time and inconvenience.
3) many locations ARE franchises, but I'd imagine it would be unlikely that they'd be at airport locations due to the enormous cost of being based there. Furthermore, the parent company wouldn't allow " non-standard" practices under their brand banner.


Yes, I do understand 1 and 2. I have experienced it! I'm not saying that is anyone's fault I was just pointing out that downside to using third party insurance.

On 3. Well the Europcar scuff and claim involved a franschisee at GVA so certainly some airport locations ARE franchise operations.

I'm not sure about the standard practices either. I once hired a car in Corsica from one of the big brands (can't remember which). We had it for 2 weeks and part of the holiday involved beaches. There was some sand in the footwells when we returned the car. Not a horrendous amount but it clearly needed a hoover. I was told there would be a cleaning charge unless I hoovered the car out. I have genuinely never been asked to clean a hire car before returning it anywhere else and I've returned dirtier cars. That certainly felt like a non-standard practice.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'm going to mention the cost of hiring childs car seats when the use of child seats is mandatory in the country of hire.
If that's not a ripoff scam then i dont know what is. And don't tell me its because of the high cost of checking and maintaining them etc as the vast majority of seats rented were over a year old and 2 or 3 hires would have paid for a new one. Pure revenue generation because they have you over a barrel.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
jedster wrote:


I'm not sure about the standard practices either. I once hired a car in Corsica from one of the big brands (can't remember which). We had it for 2 weeks and part of the holiday involved beaches. There was some sand in the footwells when we returned the car. Not a horrendous amount but it clearly needed a hoover. I was told there would be a cleaning charge unless I hoovered the car out. I have genuinely never been asked to clean a hire car before returning it anywhere else and I've returned dirtier cars. That certainly felt like a non-standard practice.


I think part of the friction her is that a) our interlocutor is an argumentative git (Yes pot, kettle & all that) and b) his experiences relate to a single company in a single location possibly 20 years ago and so cannot possibly address all the fact patterns in every corner of the global industry while the rest of us are speaking from direct experience in many countries across Europe, certainly North America and probably elsewhere (most exotic place I've hired a car was Venezuela - with petrol at something like a state subsididized $0.25 per gallon the cost of filling to the brim on return was minute wink ).

I recall EasyGroup tried to launch a car rental operation at one point on a no frills price and part of that proposition was that you had to wash and valet the car yourself before you returned it. Don't think it really caught on as who wants to spend their holiday or weekend away trying to do chores once they've got back to the airport.

I've never been stuck with a cleaning charge before my most recent experience and in fact once on a return remember being told as I bussed my litter to the trash cans not to bother as the cleaning crew would deal with it. So it clearly isn't absolutely standard and there's no practical way of determining what would be deemed an "acceptable" level of dirty. I drove in South Africa in the rainy season and there was definitely no avoiding getting quite large muddy puddle splash all over the vehicle.
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ropetow wrote:
I'm going to mention the cost of hiring childs car seats when the use of child seats is mandatory in the country of hire.
If that's not a ripoff scam then i dont know what is. And don't tell me its because of the high cost of checking and maintaining them etc as the vast majority of seats rented were over a year old and 2 or 3 hires would have paid for a new one. Pure revenue generation because they have you over a barrel.


Not sure if you're aware of this, but businesses exist to make a profit, not to ease your meander through life.


The hire company has to have availability on this non-standard item , and so has to have an inventory of them. They have to store them ,and those other additional costs you refer to yourself.

If its an extra that's not normally fitted to a car and you require the use of that item whether or not its mandatory due to local law then of course, you're probably going to be charged for that extra. The fact you think it's a rip off doesn't make it so, it just means you disapprove of the cost.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
jedster wrote:


I'm not sure about the standard practices either. I once hired a car in Corsica from one of the big brands (can't remember which). We had it for 2 weeks and part of the holiday involved beaches. There was some sand in the footwells when we returned the car. Not a horrendous amount but it clearly needed a hoover. I was told there would be a cleaning charge unless I hoovered the car out. I have genuinely never been asked to clean a hire car before returning it anywhere else and I've returned dirtier cars. That certainly felt like a non-standard practice.


I think part of the friction her is that a) our interlocutor is an argumentative git (Yes pot, kettle & all that) and b) his experiences relate to a single company in a single location possibly 20 years ago and so cannot possibly address all the fact patterns in every corner of the global industry while the rest of us are speaking from direct experience in many countries across Europe, certainly North America and probably elsewhere (most exotic place I've hired a car was Venezuela - with petrol at something like a state subsididized $0.25 per gallon the cost of filling to the brim on return was minute wink ).

I recall EasyGroup tried to launch a car rental operation at one point on a no frills price and part of that proposition was that you had to wash and valet the car yourself before you returned it. Don't think it really caught on as who wants to spend their holiday or weekend away trying to do chores once they've got back to the airport.

I've never been stuck with a cleaning charge before my most recent experience and in fact once on a return remember being told as I bussed my litter to the trash cans not to bother as the cleaning crew would deal with it. So it clearly isn't absolutely standard and there's no practical way of determining what would be deemed an "acceptable" level of dirty. I drove in South Africa in the rainy season and there was definitely no avoiding getting quite large muddy puddle splash all over the vehicle.


While I accept that my personal experience is , exactly as you stated from years ago, and from one particular company, I do have very relevant current experience of the conditions, operations and circumstances that exist in the industry. I too have travelled and rented in many worldwide locations, but again accept, that I don't have much experience of " budget" operators , because I simply won't use them.

I AM an argumentative git,that's one argument I won't dispute, but I'm happy to stand my ground against anyone else who's view (while honestly held) I believe to be wrong, or simply utter nonsense.

I've repeatedly stated that I don't excuse or otherwise stick up for any or all operators at all, save those I have direct influence/experience therein, and nor should I be expected to , any more than I hold any of our fine forum friends to be responsible for any of the utter ball-bags I've had the misfortune to rent cars to in the past.

Ridiculous paranoic theories aside, since those are easily debunked by any sane discussion, people will believe what they believe, and little or nothing can said to remove an entrenched bias.
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
But the fact that you are standing your ground against everyone else who has some negative experience or perception of the industry suggests that the numbers wouldn't be in your favour. In fact if you polled say global rental car customers who have done more than 10 lifetime rentals what percentage do you think would come back with 5 star ratings on satisfaction and confidence?

And perhaps answer without reference to the mysterious "budget" operators - most of us are talking about experiences with global or at least major national brands.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Roguevfr, as you recommended Enterprise in the early posts on this thread, can I assume that's who you worked for previously?
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@adithorp, alright, take it easy Cobumbo.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
But the fact that you are standing your ground against everyone else who has some negative experience or perception of the industry suggests that the numbers wouldn't be in your favour. In fact if you polled say global rental car customers who have done more than 10 lifetime rentals what percentage do you think would come back with 5 star raings on satisfaction and confidence?
l

I've disagreed with certain points, and many stupid assertions. That's kinda the point.

I'd suggest you choose your suppliers from those recommended by industry standard reviewers, such as the J D POWER survey, or such.

The site you linked to previously didn't actually recommend ANY suppliers or operators, merely linked to a list of potential suppliers without any value or ratings applicable.
" YOU CAN GET " from xy, or z company is no recommendation, simply information that such a thing is possible.

I've said before , you generally hear from those who have a grievance, not those satisfied. I could equally ask you how many of the thousands of daily car renters a company dealt with were actually what the rental staff might call " good hirers " rather than " good customers " which generally means they spend money.
There's a difference, I can assure you.

Equally, how many of those customers they'd willingly refuse to rent to, if it was in their power to do so.

Some people just suck, wherever they're stood.
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
adithorp wrote:
@Roguevfr, as you recommended Enterprise in the early posts on this thread, can I assume that's who you worked for previously?


I do recommend them, but I'm aware that I'll be opening myself up to a litany of real or imaginary claims of " oh, I used them, but while I was in the car they burgled my house and stole my dog and pissed on my tulips".

I did not work for Enterprise, but the company (and many others like them) who employed me was subsequently purchased outright by them as they found a foothold in the UK market in the late 90's

edited for additional colour... I left the company about a month prior to it being bought over (which was a complete surprise) . I probably would have been better to stay, since things generally improved with the new owners, and it was a somewhat staid, and perhaps old-fashioned company. However, despite the job, which was ok in its general terms, I doubled my wages by changing industries.
The money was certainly a huge inducement , but I'd simply grown tired of dealing with the public face to face. This was brought to a head by an incident where I ended up literally dangling a thief out of a plate glass window by his jeans hem , with my one hand on the broken edge of the frame. He'd come in to try to steal from our cash box. It had happened before, and I recognised him. When I challenged him , he simply picked up a heavy office chair and threw it through the 5x5' square window, and then dived across the desk in front of it where our pre-prepared paper contracts were sitting. I grabbed his ankle as he went through the window, and there he dangled, until my colleagues ran out the door and round to secure him.

As usual, I had to suffer in court at his trial, where it was revealed that he was a poor wee soul, had a heroin habit , and didn't receive enough cuddles growing up.

When I was asked if I recognised the accused in court I replied "Yes, he was dressed in the exact same Jersey he appears in today".

He got the usual slap on the wrist and probably a new jumper to make him less conspicuous.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Fri 11-06-21 15:11; edited 1 time in total
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Hmm JD Power don't exactly cover the Euro car rental market and there isn't much of a fag paper between the 4 "top" brands in N America.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2020-north-america-rental-car-satisfaction-study


Certainly not enough of a fag paper to clearly cover the variance between locations and individual deak agents.
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Hmm JD Power don't exactly cover the Euro car rental market and there isn't much of a fag paper between the 4 "top" brands in N America.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2020-north-america-rental-car-satisfaction-study


Certainly not enough of a fag paper to clearly cover the variance between locations and individual deak agents.


No, they don't cover Europe, but I'm assuming you'll at least accept that they are a market leading consumer consultant.

The page you link to has some interesting stats on it, not least of all that on average, MOST of the rental companies whose customers were surveyed showed at least 800+ out of a 1000 responding as " satisfied" with their experience. That somewhat settles your statistical question you posed earlier , in fact settles it completely.

Since the rental companies are in the majority of cases American owned (sixt and europcar being obvious exceptions) and that Americans in general are usually harder to please/more likely to complain than europeans, that their business model that's satisfactory in the US will largely similar in other territories.

A US only survey also has statistical value in this conversation, since you've repeatedly told us that you've hired all over the world, including the US.

A average satisfaction rating of over 80% would in most industries be considered very good.

I'm assuming by "The top 4 " that you mean the top ranked companies in the table ? Or do you mean those in the top 4 plus others who are best known but produced poorer ratings ?

I'd be more interested to see the equivalent ratings from a non-covid year, since obviously those are skewed (equally) due to that.
Interesting also to see Hertz come top, considering it was going into section 11 at the time of the survey.


In fact, to further push my point, three of the four " top rated" brands detailed in the report, and the chart below and the only 4, indicating those with above industry average scores are actually Enterprise, as any quick Google would confirm, so Hertz aside, which may be a statistical anomaly , the other 3 brands are Enterprise, Enterprise light, and Enterprise a bit cheaper yet.
snow report



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy