 Poster: A snowHead
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| bambionskiis wrote: |
| We’ve skiid in Austria a few times but one thing that’s put us off is the “Austrian bed” situation. As our son and daughter became a teens they objected to sharing a bed, albeit a big one. Just a little thing I know, but it’s something to think about if you have a large group. I’m not sure what the Austrians don’t like about twin beds; I think they’re great. |
Austrian hotels are very flexible, we just used to specify one twin(or double and two singles, Simples 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Actually, that's a good point (flexibility, I mean). Some of the Austrian twin beds (not the ones in a big wooden frame) can be separated into singles or locked back together for a double. You just have to ask
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kitenski wrote: |
I've skied plenty of times in France and also more recently Austria. I've not found Austria to be £1,000pp more expensive than France, in fact quite the opposite. Take a look at this, for example, in Stuben (linked to the whole Arlberg inc St Anton ski area).
If you look at their packages they often include two adult lift passes, as well as swimming pool, wellness areas and an elevator to/from the piste. We always went at Easter and prices here were always comparable to French catered chalets for a higher quality experience. I'd expect them to release 21/22 packages, this one below is/was based on March gone, but will give you an idea.
https://www.hubertushof-arlberg.at/en/packages/mountain-spring-special-days/ |
Is there a separate payment for the lift if you haven't purchased the package? 
But your core point is good - they are effectively ski in/out even if not as handy for getting to the top of the mountain as they used to be due to the scrapping of the II lift
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@mikewearden I think what you're probably realising is that Austria isn't more expensive than anywhere else, but the sort of catered chalet holiday you're wanting is. The catered chalet is a British invention that worked well in France where UK agencies could organise low-paid UK youngsters to go out, undercutting local labour rates that would otherwise have made it a much pricier model. A generation of British tourists came to think that the catered thing was the prime model for skiing, when in reality it was something of an exception. You could always get it elsewhere like Austria or Switzerland, but it was more of a premium luxury offering. And with Brexit, the odds are the supply of cheap labour will dry up and the mid-tier-cost catered chalet model will significantly decline. A lot of places in the Alps now offer pre-ordered delivery of good quality meals to chalets, as a much cheaper equivalent but with the food quality as good or better.
If this doesn't appeal, then as said, if you broaden your search to hotels, apart'hotels and if you are up for it, self-catered apartments, then I don't see why Austria will be any more expensive/cheaper than anywhere else in the Alps.
In terms of being 'ski-in/ski-out' there have been regular discussions on the forum about exactly what this really means and whether the situation isn't a bit more nuanced i.e. that by specifying this as a prerequisite, on many booking sites you may be excluding a lot of places that would be entirely acceptable, but simply a 5 minute walk away. Generally, the terms means being able to open the door of the boot room and pretty much step directly onto the piste. If your definition is a bit more flexible, then you may need to be clear about being 'within x minutes walk' of the main lift, and this will garner you many more results.
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| Quote: |
In terms of being 'ski-in/ski-out' there have been regular discussions on the forum about exactly what this really means and whether the situation isn't a bit more nuanced
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Indeed, it is much more nuanced. In Austrian ski villages, such as my own, in which the pistes descend all the way to the village, there will be accommodation next to or at the foot of the piste, and the nearest lift station may be no more distant than say 10 meters - the width of a road. I have always described such accommodation as “ski-in, ski-out”, with no complaints.
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Austria is worth the extra, no doubt. However I haven't paid that much more for any of the trips to Austria I have done.
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Isn't the answer Italy?
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Actually, thinking about it, many of our guests have commented on how much cheaper it is in Austria than their previous experiences of skiing in France. I assume that they’re thinking mainly of the cost of food and drink. Restaurant meals, both in the village and up the mountain, are comparable with U.K. prices. A 0.5 litre beer is around 4 - 5 euros - half price during happy hour. I don’t have any up to date information on typical prices in French resorts, but I suppose much depends on the resort; I well remember the last time I was in Courchevel 1850 about 20 years ago, and a bowl of watery, clear soup cost me 10 euros! Hereabouts in 2021 that would buy me in a mountain restaurant a hearty gulasch soup, full of pieces of steak, and a drink.
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@tatmanstours, Agreed, last time I was in Cham it felt like a proper rip off, and I was comparing that with Arlberg. I think AT prices are very fair on the hill. A huge bowl of Gulaschsuppe, a Semmel and a large Apfelzaftgespritz from the squirty machine (so you can do a sneaky refill after you've had a gulp) does me fine, self-service about 15€, or if needing more a large pizza with plenty toppings 12-14€.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Markymark29, that would be top end in the Ski Circus. I’m used to paying about 6-7 euros for a decent gulasch soup. I suppose that, with a Semmel and an Almdudler or Radler, that would bring it to about EUR 12.
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@tatmanstours, @Cacciatore, Happy days, can't wait to get out there again soon (hopefully end August for some hiking/ biking) it's been too long.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Cacciatore, you may recall that our favourite “up the mountain” après-ski haunt, the Bergeralm, charges EUR 5.00 for two beers (buy one, get one free) between 3.30-4.30pm, and the party atmosphere is included.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I was expecting Austria to be cheeper than France for food and drink but my last trip to Soelden revealed it to be about the same price as Les Arcs with one exception. The beer came in bigger glasses for the same price. In Les Arc 3€ for a small beer got you 25cl whereas in Soelden you got 33. Food was about the same price.
It depends much more on where you go. If I went into the Taj i Mar 5* hotel for lunch I'd expect to pay up to 50€, but in the Hotel Vanoise in Vallandry I'd pay 13 or 14€ for a waiter served meal.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@johnE, we liked Vallandry (and Les Arcs generally). We might have considered buying property there but it was a bit quiet. By that time we’d become addicted to the Saalbach après-ski scene. Great skiing though, and probably the nicest place to be in the Paradiski.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
| Actually, thinking about it, many of our guests have commented on how much cheaper it is in Austria than their previous experiences of skiing in France. I assume that they’re thinking mainly of the cost of food and drink. Restaurant meals, both in the village and up the mountain, are comparable with U.K. prices. A 0.5 litre beer is around 4 - 5 euros - half price during happy hour. I don’t have any up to date information on typical prices in French resorts, but I suppose much depends on the resort; I well remember the last time I was in Courchevel 1850 about 20 years ago, and a bowl of watery, clear soup cost me 10 euros! Hereabouts in 2021 that would buy me in a mountain restaurant a hearty gulasch soup, full of pieces of steak, and a drink. |
I'd say Austria IS a little more expensive than France but the value is probably equal and it's just that the expense is "up front" with Austria and "mountain tax" with France.
The "up front" costs covers things like accomodation, ski hire and lift passes.
- For accomodation the total is higher - but the per square foot price is the same or possibly lower than France. It's just an apartment the French would say "sleeps 8" the Austrians would say "sleeps 4".
- You do seem to have to work a little harder to find ski hire deals in Austria, but on the flip side I've only ever seen 'fresh', well serviced gear in Austria and never known anyone have issues swapping skis/boots mid-week (though never had anything as bad in France as some of the kit we hired in Italy!).
- Lift passes do tend to be higher - but then you also tend to see where the money goes. In 18/19 I skied both Ischgl in Austria and PdS in France, both shouting about the shiny new lifts they had put in over the summer. The Ischgl one was a super-fast, 8-seater with heated individual seats, with bubble. The PdS one was basically the same spec as the one that had been replaced in Ischgl!
The "mountain tax" costs are things like food and drink. Now I'd never say food & drink in resort/on the mountain is actually cheap in Austria, but it's significantly cheaper than France - and in the self service/family restaurants most of us mortals use, of a much higher standard than France. Even a trip to the local supermarket is cheaper, with just a "It's hard to get it this far up the valley you know." price increase in Austria, not the "You can in on a transfer bus so can't go anywhere else to shop, so we can charge as much as we like." price in France. Put it this way, I've never stopped for a quick drink on the mountain in Austria and been chraged €10 for a 500cc bottle of Coke... (which is a good thing as Austrian apres has lead to many mid-morning stops for Coke )/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@mikewearden, Hi Mike, ..... best stick to France if you think Austria is more expensive. Them Frenchy ski-in/out apart/condos are well placed if you want such things, and they serve a purpose.
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@Mjit, your experience of Ischgl may be slightly different in some respects from what may be considered normal in Austria. As you probably know, both Ischgl and St Anton have a reputation for being somewhat more expensive than the norm.
In my area, and probably in most Austrian resorts, the local supermarkets are chain stores, such as Billa, Spar and MPreis. Anyone who may have a car is also able to access a Lidl and a Hofer (= Aldi) within a 30 minute drive. The prices in all these stores are standard, and not inflated because of being located in a ski resort. Generally we find supermarket prices similar to the U.K. Obviously some things are slightly more expensive, but many things are cheaper (not least wine, beer and spirits).
Discounts of around 25-30% on ski/boot rental are easily obtained (especially if you speak to the right people )
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 16-05-21 17:33; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@LOTA, Nendaz very high-end?
Think again.
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The OP wanted ski In ski out. Not common in Austria but it is possible. You will need to share an “Austrian twin” too with your mates (two twin mattresses in a double but with 2xsingle duvet). There is sense of realness with a lot of Austrian resorts but there are downsides. Bus to slopes, gondola up to skiing, limited vertical etc (I say this as a Zillertal regular).
@mikewearden France doesn’t do apres at all. Give up the ski in ski out and take a punt. Don’t bother with Ischgl or St Anton. Go for Saalbach or Mayrhofen. Much cheaper and more real. Great skiing and super apres. Cheap food and cheap drink.
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@Matrix, Good advice. The Zillertal holds a special place in my affections, as it was there in 1982/83 (two weeks in each year) that I first experienced the delights of skiing in Austria, as well as of immersing myself in Austrian culture. That love affair that was ignited nearly 40 years ago has culminated in my having decided to live full-time in Austria. However some of your comments stirred my memories of how, later in the 1980s, I moved on from Mayrhofen and the Zillertal to the Ski Circus, where I was pretty ecstatic to discover the convenience of staying in ski-in ski-out accommodation. After toiling up and down the street iin Mayrhofen, and queuing for the Penken cable car in both directions, I found that it was possible to put my skis on virtually at the door, as well as to ski back to my accommodation by taking an off-piste cut across a meadow. That was in Leogang, and I returned there for four more holidays in the late 80s and early 90s (interspersed with holidays in Champéry and St Martin de Belleville).
Then many years later in the early 2000s, having sold my skiing soul mainly to France, but also to other resorts in Switzerland and Austria during the previous decade, I dipped my toe into Saalbach, and the rest, as they say, is history. Amongst the many things that I loved about Saalbach (unlike so many great resorts that I’d stayed in - not only Mayrhofen but also St Anton and Badgastein), was that the pistes actually came right down to the village from four directions, and that much of the accommodation was right next to or at the foot of the pistes, so super-convenient and minimising the hassle-factor of getting to and from the slopes.
By this time I’d well and truly sussed out that I hated traipsing around in ski boots, and I didn’t care much for ski buses either. So the luxury of being able virtually to walk straight onto a lift, and then later to be able to ski down (often after the lifts have closed, and sometimes in the dark with a head torch) virtually back to my front door, is a big part of the attraction.
If the O.P. wants to experience Austrian skiing at its best I think he’d be well advised to put location and “ski convenience” high on the list of priorities, otherwise he’ll almost certainly draw unfavourable comparisons with purpose-built French ski stations.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@mikewearden
From a trip report I did 8 years ago, to Saalbach Hinterglemm.
| Quote: |
Trip Report: Saalbach Hinterglem 2013 (warning, content may not be suitable for the serious skier)
Departed: 02.02.13
Lots of stuff happened
Returned: 09.02.13
wink
Special note: Saalbach should carry a health warning Toofy Grin
TO: Crystal
No particular comments, other than they delivered on all fronts as one might expect. My “accident” report might make for some fun reading on a quiet day in their office…more on that later.
Hotel: Konig
Great place, and can ski to the back door. Located at the lower end of town about 200m from the bottom of the main high street. Service, food, rooms all excellent. Boot/ski room a decent size, all pretty secure – even had security cameras monitoring things.
All the people there were incredibly helpful.
Would definitely recommend the place and would stay there again.
It’s a 5 minute walk to the Schattberg Xpress, 5 minutes to the town centre and, if using the beginner lift directly behind the hotel, one can reasonably easily get up to the main lift area that also serves the learner slopes, again in 6-7 minutes. |
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@Cacciatore, Hi- just checked out your website- on the booking page it says no children. On the info page it talks about children skiing for free?
Confused. Ed
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@ed123, we don’t take children under 12 - the nature of the place/environment isn’t massively conducive.
However, part of the website detailing our Winter offerings was removed owing to some of the Covid restrictions re travel etc. It will, hopefully, be back up again soon. I mention this because we offer half board, catered weeks during the ski season, almost exclusively for British guests. We’ve accepted children on those occasions, where the whole guest accommodation has been booked by a family group (for example) - the place lends itself quite well for this kind of booking.
Sorry for the confusion - purely down to some temporary changes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Lots of talk about busses here. I did somewhere around 15 ski holidays in Austria before moving here, and only one of those required a bus. In most of the 'on the radar' resorts I'd have though the vast majority of accommodation is within a 5 minute walk to a lift station (with ski/boot depot) 
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You know it makes sense.
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@LOTA, sorry, but a hotel that needs to classify itself as ‘prestige’ is not very prestigious
And Nendaz....
To return to topic: Austria has better options than Nendaz!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
| To get to the point... is the cost of Austria skiing worth it over the convenience and size of French resorts!? I can get a catered ski to door chalet for £1000pp less in the three valleys than i can in the likes of Ischgal or St Anton... |
The OP misses the point that skiing in France is much pricier than Austria, and generally Austria is a much nicer place to ski IMHO (having skied both countries for a few decades in many large and small resorts in SC/Chalet/Hotel/B&B). If France is your thing, best go ski there.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@skimastaaah, Or to put it another way; France is just there to keep the riffraff out of Austria.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@skimastaaah, I dont think the Op misses the point, he or she is asking for advice. But I am still not clear what OP is looking for. If it’s a very basic crash pad, directly on the slope then the accommodation in France will be cheaper. But if it’s better service, larger accommodation units etc it’s Austria. For the cost of apres, food etc then Austria. Cost of ski hire France etc etc. If fun includes after ski it’s Austria. Etc etc. Each to their own.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Langerzug wrote: |
@LOTA, sorry, but a hotel that needs to classify itself as ‘prestige’ is not very prestigious
And Nendaz....
To return to topic: Austria has better options than Nendaz! |
Have you stayed there? I had the good fortune to win three nights there in a competition. It is magnificent.
I like Austria very much but also like many, many places in Switzerland too.
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@LOTA, stayed in Nendaz a few years running and it was pretty good, if the links to Verbier were open, I’d struggle to call it magnificent though. Serious question, why do you see it that way, perhaps something has changed last 2-3 years re the links etc which were pretty tedious iirc.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 16-05-21 13:13; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Markymark29, @Markymark29, I was talking about the magnificent hotel which the other gentleman was dismissive of! Nendaz itself has been improved by a major new lift into the Verbier circuit.
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@LOTA, cool I’ll take a look again, used to like Les Etagnes
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@mikewearden, welcome to snowHeads. 
You’ve started a really good thread here. I think it will be useful to many people.
I’ve had probably 4 times as many ski weeks in France than Austria. But I’ve enjoyed several in Austria. Overall I don’t think a like for like trip would end up much different cost wise.
It’s different enough to make it well worthwhile. It had a proper alpine country and culture way before mass market ski trips. Embrace the difference!
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| PeakyB wrote: |
@mikewearden, welcome to snowHeads.
You’ve started a really good thread here. I think it will be useful to many people. |
+1 yes welcome and it was an excellent question. I really don't know why we haven't been to Austria more other than 1) habit and 2) we are in Liverpool and there aren't that many direct flights from the North West (there are some- but they tend to be quite pricey) and we usually book flights first then look for the rest.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ed123, on the flights, Jet2 are adding more from MAN (Innsbruck and maybe Salzburg) but as you say, not cheap. Might work for somewhere easily accessible like St Anton, where you can just jump on the train and then the time saving balances out the cost to some degree, especially if you’re a couple/small group. EasyJet Manchester to Munich is probably the cheapest option, but a little more faff for transfers (prob works best if you need a hire car anyway).
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Thinking back many years when I first took the snow train from Calais to Bourg st Maurice I remembered another snow train at Calais Ville station to St Anton. It's a shame it no longer runs and the replacement route takes 12 hours, about the same time as the original, but requires 6 changes of train. I might just try it for setting somekind of personal record for a train journey - from home to St. Anton 10 changes required.
I'm not sure if many long distance trains still run - I once caught one from Athens to Oestend. No changes required. There were stops in Austria Graz and Salzburg IIRC.
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FAQ
Three years ago it was very much ski in/ski out, straight from the front door...just so long as touring was the favoured pursuit 
