Poster: A snowHead
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My current ski is the previous generation Mantra (the full rocker version). It's great for charging about in even the shittiest conditions and can scrub off speed at the drop of a hat, which is something that I find really useful. It's one 'weakness' if you like (bearing in mind the kind of ski it is - i.e. heavy and clunky, not a 'lighthearted fun ski' by any means) is that the rocker design makes it very squirrely when you are flat on the bases. It's probably not dangerous but I'm of a nervous disposition and it gets to me. Can anyone recommend me a versatile ski that absolutely is 'on rails' in a straight line on piste. I don't mind if it's difficult to turn as a side effect of that, but if possible I would like a ski than can stop quickly. Cheers!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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193 4FRNT EHP ticks both the straight-line and easy to hockey stop boxes
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@greengriff, I would imagine any ski used by speed skiers would be suitable as above all they want the ski to be stable in a straight line at speeds greater than 200km/h and aren't bothered about difficulty in turning!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The Blizzard looks very interesting, although perhaps too off-piste orientated. More so than the Mantra by the look of it. Anyone have any suggestions for something more piste focussed, but equally stable?
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I would look at Blizzard, Head (Core 99), Kastle, Stockli, Nordica (Enforcer 100) and Volkl
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 8-03-21 13:40; edited 1 time in total
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Cheers, good food for thought here. Does anyone own any of these and can chip in with their thoughts on how they perform in straight-down-the-fall-line nuttery?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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greengriff wrote: |
Cheers, good food for thought here. Does anyone own any of these and can chip in with their thoughts on how they perform in straight-down-the-fall-line nuttery? |
Unfortunately not, as it's the opposite of what I look for in a versatile ski.....the only time I tried Blizzard, I found it too planky for my taste (but very stable), as I'm light and prefer a more playful ski.
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I'm also quite light, but have found that I vastly prefer stiffer skis (and snowboards), in spite of them taking much more effort and energy out of me during a day's skiing. I just feel that much more 'connected' and 'locked in' on stiffer skis, if that makes any sense? And the extra spent calories keeps me slim .
I have friends that go freaking fast on skis that are no stiffer than spaghetti, and don't seem in the least bit bothered, but I'm not one of those people. I also only like to take one pair with me on a holiday, which forces a compromise.
The Mantra is a great, great ski, although kind of joyless when I go tootling around at slow speeds with my kids. That reminds me: one other thing that the full rocker gives is that it's relatively easy to smear low speed turns when you're just not in the mood for hooning. I don't suppose that's something that's possible on a stiff cambered ski with a large radius?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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greengriff wrote: |
I'm also quite light.... |
What do you weigh, if that's not a rude question....and what is your percentage split between On and Off Piste.?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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65kg butt naked!
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Oh and on or off piste split probably averages out about 70/30. Or maybe 80/20! Not really thought about it, but it's definitely majority on piste.
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You know it makes sense.
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greengriff wrote: |
65kg butt naked! |
Same as me.
FWIW. My solution is to get a more playful ski, but chose it in a longer length - which gives extra stability, but more ease of use. In my case, it's a Scott The Ski in a 180 (which is a length I wouldn't contemplate in a stiff ski).
This route gives decent stability On Piste, Good float Off Piste and playfulness in Bumps. Everything is a compromise....and this is mine.
How much time do you spend On Piste? How far off the beaten track do you go ie. Lift accessed stuff, or heading further afield with a guide?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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greengriff wrote: |
Oh and on or off piste split probably averages out about 70/30. Or maybe 80/20! Not really thought about it, but it's definitely majority on piste. |
In which case, I wouldn't go too wide, especially as you are light - maybe 88-92.
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Poster: A snowHead
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greengriff wrote: |
That reminds me: one other thing that the full rocker gives is that it's relatively easy to smear low speed turns when you're just not in the mood for hooning. I don't suppose that's something that's possible on a stiff cambered ski with a large radius? |
Nope they are pretty much diametrically opposing ski characteristics. If you have a nice budget you can’t go wrong with Stockli or Kaestle for nice stiff, fast skis. Blizzard gives you more value (and discounts) but still proper skis. Probably Scott, Nordica, Atomic also but I’ve not tried them
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I suspected as much from my experience with snowboards. In which case it just goes to show that Volkl did a remarkable job with the old Mantra. My budget won't stretch to Stockli levels unfortunately. I could do it, but I couldn't justify it with a straight face to my wife.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Maybe something like the Dynastar Legend X88 or Rossignol Experience 88 HD, would be a nice compromise between Not too stiff and Not too playful....and be narrow enough to be good On Piste.
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Cheers. Keep 'em coming. Again if you own them and have an opinion then so much the better. Looking at skis is about as close as I'm going to get to the mountains this season, so I might as well make the most of it!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Another vote for the Brahma, though my now defunct pair were the earlier model with a 17-18m turn radius. I think they've shrunk the TR. I loved them (sadly they are falling apart). As Mr P says to me "you like a stiff ski" (snigger!). Rock solid on piste, some say they demand a bit of grunt-not to get on edge, but to get the best out of them in the turn, but as a 5ft 5inch female skier around 61kgs I loved 'em, even though they were often said to be a bit of a big boys' ski (173cm length too). I think the TR is a bit smaller now and they are said to an easier ski, but hopefully not too much. They were pretty capable off piste too for someone of my height and weight.
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Thank you! Personal impressions like that are just what I'm after.
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@greengriff, Fischer RC4 GS
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@greengriff, I think, given your piste/off ratio that you're maybe looking a bit wide. When we replaced our old Mantras (~2010) I found the rocker was a little twitchy for my liking (although Mrs U specifically like it) so I ended up on Blizzard Bonafides (in between Brahma and Cochise). If I wanted an 80/20 ski I'd probably go something like the Brahma - or maybe something rather more piste oriented.
(P.S. "full rocker gives is that it's relatively easy to smear low speed turns when you're just not in the mood for hooning. I don't suppose that's something that's possible on a stiff cambered ski with a large radius?" ... I would tend to disagree. If your edging skills are there it's perfectly easy to smear low speed turns, or indeed, invoke the racing sideslip. Rocker IMHO on firm snow just gives you a shorter effective edge, until the edge is engaged, so makes turns in general easier, but comes with a bit of twitch).
Don't get so hung up on "sidecut radius" (it is not turn radius) - easy to pop numbers on the graphics/in reviews, not very easy to put the lived/felt effect into words as these things are complicated, and sidecut is not the only important geometry.
I think I calculated the sidecut radius on my old Rossi 7SK slaloms (201s) as in excess of 60 metres ... on slalom skis.
Another point, we were in a very quiet little resort yesterday and MrsU and I somehow lost the rest of the party - and surprisingly, the kids were all with them. So we had to loop the red run we'd been doing 3 or 4 times at more or less full chat to try and catch up with them. In the conditions, old chopped up snow, often wet, sometimes refreezing, a teeny eeny weeny little bit of edge really does help keep everything under good management and avoids "am I going too fast?" moments
Or you could just go full on and get something like these? - I have some from a few years ago and they really are a hoot (and very skiable).
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IMV. In the same way that, for the OP's 80:20 Piste Bias, a ski that is too wide isn't versatile enough for Piste Skiing; a GS orientated ski isn't versatile enough for Off Piste skiing.
The answer is an All Mountain ski with a Piste Bias.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Old Fartbag, so something like the Brahma. I think the Kendo is probably too rocketed?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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under a new name wrote: |
@Old Fartbag, so something like the Brahma. I think the Kendo is probably too rocketed? |
Exactly so....or the other 88m waisted skis that I mentioned above, which are also good for Piste skiing - but aren't too shabby Off Piste - especially for somebody who is light.
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Markymark29 wrote: |
@greengriff, Fischer RC4 GS |
Fischer have the most confusing model nomenclature I've ever come across. Browsing Snowleader now and there's an RC4 GT MT, an RC4 RS AR, an RC4 WC RC MT, and an RC4 WC SC MT. Not very memorable. No RC4 GS though.
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You know it makes sense.
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Well the Brahma keeps getting mentioned so that's got to be worth a look.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@greengriff, german language often refer to RS for reisenslalom ...
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Poster: A snowHead
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@under a new name Thanks for your considered reply. I agree completely about the 'twitch' of the rockered Mantra. I am wondering if I can get away with a narrower ski now as I'm not that heavy, although I do think that the relatively slow edge to edge behaviour of the Mantra has made me a smoother and more deliberate skier, if not actually better.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Looking at some of the race inspired skis does make me wish I could take 2 sets of skis away with me. However they also look like they'd be an absolute hoot first thing in the morning but hellish in bumpy, chopped up late-afternoon rubbish, which is one of the things that the Mantras are totally indifferent to. Can anyone comment? Do you end up swapping them out at lunchtime for something else?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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greengriff wrote: |
@under a new name Thanks for your considered reply. I agree completely about the 'twitch' of the rockered Mantra. I am wondering if I can get away with a narrower ski now as I'm not that heavy, although I do think that the relatively slow edge to edge behaviour of the Mantra has made me a smoother and more deliberate skier, if not actually better. |
IMV Ski width choice has little to do with weight. The construction and the length is what counts - as there are damp and playful skis in every category. A narrower ski certainly makes edge to edge easier and quicker - and with "Piste widths" ie 68 - 75, much quicker.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 8-03-21 20:50; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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greengriff wrote: |
Looking at some of the race inspired skis does make me wish I could take 2 sets of skis away with me. However they also look like they'd be an absolute hoot first thing in the morning but hellish in bumpy, chopped up late-afternoon rubbish, which is one of the things that the Mantras are totally indifferent to. Can anyone comment? Do you end up swapping them out at lunchtime for something else? |
You will drive yourself mad if you keep changing your goal posts. Recreational Race skis do one thing very well - go fast On Piste.
Piste Skis are more versatile, often using trickle down tech from the race dept - some are close to race skis and some are more playful. They can be taken Off Piste, but are not the weapon of choice for that.
The All Mountain category is the compromise category - split into those that have a slight bias towards Piste and those that have a slight bias towards Off Piste - but they won't be as good as a Piste Ski on the groomed stuff and won't be as good as a wide Freeride ski in the deeper stuff.
So, unless you are prepared to shell out on 2 pairs of skis - you have to decide where you want to make your compromises. You could, for example look at something like a Head Titan, which is 80 underfoot - which gives great Piste performance - and a little extra help Off Piste.
I still think though - something like the Brahma (or Nordica/Rossignol/Volkl) would work for you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yes, I agree completely. I was just getting my curiosity piqued. What I want/need is a ski like the Mantra, but in camber and more piste orientated. It does sound like the Brahma might be the one. Does anyone have anything bad to say about it?
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greengriff wrote: |
It does sound like the Brahma might be the one. Does anyone have anything bad to say about it? |
Any negative comments will be personal preference related and nothing to do with the competence of the ski. It will have the advantages of a stiffer ski, but also the disadvantages, as it will be less playful. There are wider skis in the AM category, which will have more float, but won't be as agile On Piste.
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I can't imagine it will be less playful than the Mantras? They are pretty hardcore and unforgiving. I know people's personal opinions are subjective, but they are still interesting, and still might be able to highlight an issue - especially if the same point comes up several times from different people.
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@greengriff, "but hellish in bumpy, chopped up late-afternoon rubbish" - I have had a variety of (full on, "FIS" spec) race skis in recent years and have never found any such problems. (If it's relevant, I'm 60kgs.)
More piste oriented skis might include Head Supershapes (never skied them) ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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. . .
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 9-03-21 6:36; edited 1 time in total
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greengriff wrote: |
I can't imagine it will be less playful than the Mantras? They are pretty hardcore and unforgiving. I know people's personal opinions are subjective, but they are still interesting, and still might be able to highlight an issue - especially if the same point comes up several times from different people. |
When I'm talking playful, I'm referring to skis like Scot The Ski/Slight or Head Core 93 or Atomic Vantage 90Cti
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