 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all. Many years ago I used to enjoy a pair of Fischer SC4 supercarves, 183cms and absolutely loved them. Always liked long, stable skis that were comfortable at speed and had a good weight to them. In a fit of nostalgia
I managed to get a pair of Fischer World cup GS skis , 188cms. I only paid £45 for them so am pretty happy with my bargain hunting. Only thing is I can't seem to date them. I've been checking the archives as I thought they were probably around 2004-2007 but I cant seem to match the graphics so was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to check out the pictures and tell me what year they might be please?
Thanks in advance
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cbt20bAcaTpgfzK_2ZwO0BSYCMqrQ4L8/view?usp=sharing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Huwphill,on a quick Google, seems you're about right: https://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22910 seems to show some with those graphics which are described as 2006
I trust you're not planning to use the 15 year old bindings for anything more than somewhere to tie the wall mounting string?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
@Huwphill,on a quick Google, seems you're about right: https://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22910 seems to show some with those graphics which are described as 2006
I trust you're not planning to use the 15 year old bindings for anything more than somewhere to tie the wall mounting string? |
The bindings on my skis are over 15 years old - perfectly serviceable - exposed to sunlight probably 12 hours a day for 4 weeks in total each year then returned to the dark.
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@ropetow, All metal bindings can be still indemnified after 15 years, ones with plastic housings won't be.
@Huwphill, Would be worth you checking exactly what model of bindings are fitted to those, 2006 looks about right for the skis but the bindings don't look like the race model that would normally be used.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@ousekjarr, generically, what's wrong with 15 year old bindings?
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@under a new name, generically, 15 year old bindings are more likely to have suffered from the ravages of time, e.g. rust, loss of strength, loss of calibration, material weakening, plastic degradation, and so on. If you have owned them from new and they've been serviced and checked every year by someone who is qualified to do so and they're still within manufacturer's indemnity, then that's fine. If I bought them off eBay and intended to ski on them, I'd want a good ski tech that I trust to check them over and test them on a full test rig to be sure that they weren't the last skis I was able to strap on. You don't know anything about them, so they could have had 100 hours use and then been sat in a damp shed for 10 years, or they could have done 15 full seasons and then been dumped because they kept pre-releasing. Maybe they've been set on 12 for the whole their life, and the new owner wants them on 8 - how reliable is that now?
I have nine year old skis, and they typically get about 20 days skiing per year. They're probably OK for next year, and then I'll be looking to retire them. But I've had them from new, they're kept in ideal storage conditions, I don't abuse them, and they're serviced regularly and have an annual binding check.
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I think I make my wife ski on bindings older than that!
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@ousekjarr, yes, and ... ? have them checked, if OK good to go. I might be rather wary of cheap plastic bindings but if they're proper race skis there's a reasonable likelihood they'll be rather more robust.
My skis usually get around 60 days a year, are on season 4 (although they'll maybe get 4 days this year!!) and I don't think they've ever had any sort of check other than a "walk around" ... 
Yours are doing well at 180 days. Although it is very ski dependent. Our 2010 Mantras lasted 7 seasons (so, around 400 days (or lunches! hahaha)) before becoming unserviceable - which amazed us.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
the bindings don't look like the race model
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@rjs, good spot - look like rentals to me
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| rjs wrote: |
@ropetow, All metal bindings can be still indemnified after 15 years, ones with plastic housings won't be.
@Huwphill, Would be worth you checking exactly what model of bindings are fitted to those, 2006 looks about right for the skis but the bindings don't look like the race model that would normally be used. |
What does indemnified mean? Your manufacturers guarantee against a manufacturing defect will be 2 years. You wouldn't replace your bindings because the manufacturers warranty has run out?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
@under a new name, generically, 15 year old bindings are more likely to have suffered from the ravages of time, e.g. rust, loss of strength, loss of calibration, material weakening, plastic degradation, and so on. If you have owned them from new and they've been serviced and checked every year by someone who is qualified to do so and they're still within manufacturer's indemnity, then that's fine. If I bought them off eBay and intended to ski on them, I'd want a good ski tech that I trust to check them over and test them on a full test rig to be sure that they weren't the last skis I was able to strap on. You don't know anything about them, so they could have had 100 hours use and then been sat in a damp shed for 10 years, or they could have done 15 full seasons and then been dumped because they kept pre-releasing. Maybe they've been set on 12 for the whole their life, and the new owner wants them on 8 - how reliable is that now?
I have nine year old skis, and they typically get about 20 days skiing per year. They're probably OK for next year, and then I'll be looking to retire them. But I've had them from new, they're kept in ideal storage conditions, I don't abuse them, and they're serviced regularly and have an annual binding check. |
A ski tech checking bindings on a full test rig?
The best a ski tech is going to do is to give them a visual inspection - they are not going to be doing some NDT and checking loss of strength, material weakening or plastic degradation. They are also not going to give you any guarantee after looking at them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ropetow wrote: |
| What does indemnified mean? |
You could type that into a search engine and get a reply such as:
| Code: |
| Indemnified bindings are simply those that are still considered safe to be serviced according to ski manufacturers. It's primarily a means of precaution, as indemnification means that the manufacturers are willing to support the certified technician in case legal action is taken by you the consumer. |
Bindings stay on this list for a lot longer than the two years of a mandatory guarantee. Manufacturer guarantees may be longer than two years as well, the Salomon one on race bindings was 10 years.
You could take a close up photo of the bindings, either toe or heel piece will do, just wherever the model number and DIN range is displayed.
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| ropetow wrote: |
A ski tech checking bindings on a full test rig?
The best a ski tech is going to do is to give them a visual inspection - they are not going to be doing some NDT and checking loss of strength, material weakening or plastic degradation. They are also not going to give you any guarantee after looking at them. |
They could however give the bindings a complete measured release torque release test if they have the necessary calibrated equipment, such as the Piste Office has. 
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=152209#3557452
Although a certified ski technician such as spyderjon will not I expect service your ski bindings if the bindings are no longer on the manufacturer's indemnified list.
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You know it makes sense.
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The question of checking and/or servicing of bindings is an interesting one.
Rudimentary checking (visial, wiggle, play, etc) is just one of those you would for any piece of kit. But beyond that?
Servicing?
Got to admit I have never done much.
I've had two binding failures:
1) In the late 90's - kept releasing in innocuous situations. Had them checked out by a tech in the UK and in resort. No problems found. Issue persisted to some degree until I ditched them.
2) Late noughties - I bought a second hand pair and a metal base plate sheared in both - one, one day, the other the next. Not sure any issue would have been found even with a close inspection. I DIY serviced them so were never seen by a shop but since I had them.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @ousekjarr, yes, and ... ? have them checked, if OK good to go. I might be rather wary of cheap plastic bindings but if they're proper race skis there's a reasonable likelihood they'll be rather more robust. |
? How long do you think the manufacturer's design life is for a race ski? Hint: when do they get money from the market?
A race ski or binding is not designed to last 10 years. It might, but the reality is that it has to withstand higher forces than a leisure component for the effective life of the ski for the primary user, and so if there is any compromise to be reached between longevity and performance, the performance criteria takes precedence because the expected life is 2-3 years max. That said, it should probably be good for 3-4 years of heavy use, but after that it's a bit of a lottery. Yes, there's a second hand market and they filter down to local race clubs in time, but I don't buy the idea that a junior championship competitor this year is on 2016 skis which started life in a national team - apart from anything else, the edges are probably close to non-existent after that time as they'll have been used for 20-30 hours per week for 12+ weeks of each year.
It is of course possible to buy older race skis in new condition, e.g. https://www.skibartlett.com/ski-equipment-c1/skis-c3/race-skis-c121/giant-slalom-skis-c334/fischer-rc4-wc-gs-stiff-race-ski-2015-p20376 - but why would you if you are serious about racing? If they're still the best skis available, why have they not sold in the last 6 years?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Layne wrote: |
| 2) Late noughties - I bought a second hand pair and a metal base plate sheared in both - one, one day, the other the next. Not sure any issue would have been found even with a close inspection. I DIY serviced them so were never seen by a shop but since I had them. |
Did you ski the second day with one old and one new ski, or on a single ski?  I'm struggling to understand how this happens... one ski tries to injure you, and you carry on with the other one until it too breaks?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
| It is of course possible to buy older race skis in new condition, but why would you if you are serious about racing? If they're still the best skis available, why have they not sold in the last 6 years? |
Those skis in your link are not to the latest FIS specification, they are still legal to race on as the minimum sidecut radius went down from 35m to 30m, someone wanting to do FIS races now would want 30m ones, someone wanting to do masters races would want 23m-27m radius skis.
I have much older race skis than those and they still ski fine, I have worn out SL skis but never a GS pair as I don't race GS often enough. I even have a pair the same spec as those in the OP's picture but from the year before, I felt they were slightly too stiff for my weight and I went down to a pair of 183cm ones, the male Fischer GS skis came in 193cm, 188cm and 183cm.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Layne wrote: |
2) Late noughties - I bought a second hand pair and a metal base plate sheared in both - one, one day, the other the next. Not sure any issue would have been found even with a close inspection. I DIY serviced them so were never seen by a shop but since I had them. |
Rossi Axials? Known issue. Spend half an hour digging in treewells in deep pow as a result myself.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| 2) Late noughties - I bought a second hand pair and a metal base plate sheared in both - one, one day, the other the next. Not sure any issue would have been found even with a close inspection. I DIY serviced them so were never seen by a shop but since I had them. |
Did you ski the second day with one old and one new ski, or on a single ski? I'm struggling to understand how this happens... one ski tries to injure you, and you carry on with the other one until it too breaks? |
First one went right at the end of the day, getting to the ski locker door in heavy deep snow. Shop on the corner happened to have a replacement in the spares box. I thought it may have just been my weight trying to force a turn at slow speed in the heavy snow was too much for it. TBH it was midweek and I just wanted to keep the show on the road as it where. Next day after a few runs I released the back binding to board a gondola and the other one had gone. I managed to gently ski home and then hired some skis. I guess if I'd thought about it a bit more I would have just binned them and got hire skis when the first one went.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@ropetow, "indemnification" is a North American insurance scam whereby the manufacturers accept a certain liability and indemnify rental/2nd hand vendors against claims.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
2) Late noughties - I bought a second hand pair and a metal base plate sheared in both - one, one day, the other the next. Not sure any issue would have been found even with a close inspection. I DIY serviced them so were never seen by a shop but since I had them. |
Rossi Axials? Known issue. Spend half an hour digging in treewells in deep pow as a result myself. |
Salomon
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Thanks all, I think that I will change the bindings, they don't look as robust as I would like and seeing as the skis weigh roughly the same as a Ford Mondeo I don't think that I should risk them. I might also invest in a pair of all mountain. skis seeing as on a piste at Obergurgl a pair of GS skis may prove quite disconcerting to the general piste cruising public.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| I think I make my wife ski on bindings older than that! |
Except for one pair I only own bindings older than that:
1. 1993 Dynafit TLT
2. 1994 Marker M57
3. 1995 Salomon 997 Carbon
4. 1998 Dynafit TLT
5. 2000 Rossignol Axial
6. 2003 Dynafit Comfort
Alpine bindings are basically a couple of springs sitting in a thick coat of grease inside some kind of housing. Thats it. They typically only fail when and if the housing gives way. In which case cracks cracks could normally be seen long beforehand.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Tristero, yep
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Nice pair of 2008 Rossignol Bandits acquired to add to the quiver as well. Bit more versatile if conditions are changeable.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Huwphill wrote: |
| Nice pair of 2008 Rossignol Bandits acquired to add to the quiver as well. Bit more versatile if conditions are changeable. |
Just out of interest - why are you doing this? For the crack, because you are short of cash or because you genuinely believe these are good skis?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Huwphill, as @Layne, asks...why?......... those are a foam core ski, so likely to be a bit like noodles now
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Bit of research really, I haven't been on skis since 2006 so I want to see how different these are to my 1999 Fischers and then try some really modern ones. Basically to see what Ive missed during this time...If anything at all!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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@Huwphill, May I make a small prediction?
You will hate the Bandits.
You would have hated them new.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Huwphill wrote: |
| Bit of research really, I haven't been on skis since 2006 so I want to see how different these are to my 1999 Fischers and then try some really modern ones. Basically to see what Ive missed during this time...If anything at all!!! |
I bought some Bandits iirc 1998 after a few days I tried switching back to my Super Force 9's which I still had. I could barely ski the booggers. Took em back to the ski locker and never touched them again.
I don't have the Bandits now, currently skiing Cham 97's - maybe not quite as bad but I suspect if I went out on the Bandits I would hate them.
Ski's just get better and better in my experience - which is entirely logical I guess.
Have fun with your reminiscence's but I wouldn't spend too long and be careful you don't hurt yourself.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks for that. Looks like my trip is delayed until 2022 but I will sneak a long weekend in before the end of the year. I think I will play with these skis either in a fridge or on my local dry slope. I probably should go to resort with decent tools but the difficulty is knowing what to go with. As I said its been a long time since I've looked into ski tech.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Huwphill, a screwdriver, a hammer, and a pair of pliers. Like with a Landrover, if you can't fix anything that goes wrong with those 3 tools, you might as well scrap it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My first skis were B2 Bandits. Great for learning on but after 2 to 3 years they were like wet noodles. I then took the edges to 3 degrees which gave me a lot less chatter on harder pistes but by year 5 they totally delaminated at the tails.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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my first (and only) owned skis are B2s too.
2006 vintage and now definately well past their best even at 1wk / yr .... need to look at something new (when SWMBO permits  ) but soo much choice!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fischer pisten-carvers and some B2s would have been proto-snowhead material in about 2006 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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some good news was that when the B2 Bandits turned up they were the earlier wood core ones so they still feel pretty firm. Bad news is I have had a reality check. If I was skiing on 1999 supercarves back in the day my technique is going to be completely old fashioned. I guess there's no point learning how to adapt to old tech like those bandits so I think I'm better off learning to use something quite a lot newer.
With that in mind I have got hold of some ROSSIGNOL PURSUIT 300s from 2018 so I'm looking forward to seeing just how much like bambi on ice I will be when I try these out. I'm thinking that a few refresher lessons wouldn't go amiss so that I can learn how to handle these new shaped skis ( new to me...I know theyve been out for ages...it's just that I'm time warped in the 90s).
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@Huwphill, skis were already getting modernly "shaped" in 1999...
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Lessons is a great idea, you may be pleasantly surprised at how well you get on but having lessons will certainly helps you get there much quicker
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Huwphill wrote: |
| With that in mind I have got hold of some ROSSIGNOL PURSUIT 300s from 2018 |
Just so we can keep up, this is the third pair of ski's you've now bought?
So what you are going to try them all out in a fridge to feel the difference?
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FAQ
