 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don’t know if Jean-Marc got it wrong, or the journalist who wrote the story, but the number is made up. We don’t have any direct link to visitors, it’s the responsibility of the authorities so we have no way to know how many people travelled from the UK |
The tourist office may well not know. However, it's been a while since I stayed in Switzerland, but IIRC passport details are collected at hotels, and so numbers would have been available to the police.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Making the news rather than reporting it - How media corporations stay afloat.
Let's me honest, skiing is quite a middle class thing to do. So giving them a good bashing is always a good thing to do. Ischgl got pounded - Ok the authorities got it wrong but the boozed up punters in the bars were just doing their thing, none the wiser.
Verbier is an easy target - The premier resort in the resort in the world's most expensive ski country, and let's be honest, it's a keen skiers resort. Alpha males with money and cool kit. It's the Sandhurst of the slopes. So a storey about a bunch of arrogant public schoolboy types not obeying the rules etc etc was probably No 2 in the 'easiest stories to write of 2020' after 'Cummings went to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight.'
If the Swiss allowed flights in and opened hotels then they have to look at themselves really.
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The truth is probably in the middle somewhere, but for differing reasons both Verbier and its clientele have taken a hammering.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for posting this @BobinCH. While I'm sure there are many who won't let mere facts get in the way of their opinions, it's nice to know that some still care.
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My guess it was like a lot of lazy media stories these days. Someone picked up a Twitter or Facebook post from an aggrieved individual with a sense of self-entitlement, and quickly validated the underlying story that Switzerland had imposed retrospective restrictions on UK tourists. They found lots of file photos of skiers to illustrate an article with, and could pick up contemporary ones from the webcams.
But to fill out the text they had to include the shriller and shriller whines of a couple of people on social media. They obviously never thought to check out the facts with Swiss-based journalists.
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That PlanetSki piece is a great example. All the "reporting" is done by looking at some social media and Googling other published articles, with no new first hand reporting. The piece then ends with a bunch of Internet ranting.
The piece that @BobinCH posted documents many hours of actual telephone calls and conversations with people on the ground, as well as conversations with officials. It documents times, dates, and numbers.
I think we all know which story will get a wider readership. I'm grateful that some people are willing to put in the hard work anyway.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@BobinCH, Great piece of journalism.
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Once a journo headlines with the term 'flee' you know what sort of guff you're in for. As I've said on other threads, you 'flee' from a war zone, earthquake or volcano, not a ski resort. But then 'go home a few days early' doesn't have the same ring to it. Add to that today's articles are now saying returning home was officially encouraged, and they have no idea how many notified as requested, and it's even more of a work of fiction. Buy hey, if we had true investigative journalists then there'd be little to fill the pages of the web.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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they had to include the shriller and shriller whines of a couple of people on social media
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There were some pretty shrill and self-righteous posters on Snowheads, ready to put the boot in and yap on about "covidiots" and urge "naming and shaming".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Rules or not, there is a moral side of this argument.
There is no denying that even if the rules did allow the travel to CH it was still a arrogant thing to do by going but on the flip side, it’s a hard call to right off a £10K holiday with no refund as rules say you can go.
If it was Benidorm I don’t think the outrage would be so strong
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My daughter is here fresh back from 7 years in Verbier and communicating with friends out there, my son is there working now. My son laughed and said 'yeah, I'd heard' my daughter said, 'who'd know, 200 leaving Verbier overnight would be hardly noticeable' > The general consensus is, that some did clear out overnight, the numbers were probably exaggerated.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Tue 29-12-20 11:58; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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@pam w, true, but even so if those journalists had used Snowheads as a source they would at least have found some more factual and less shrill comment. (And even Verbier residents they could have tried to PM).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Mollerski, have the local police publicised the numbers involved from hotel records?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| achilles wrote: |
| @Mollerski, have the local police publicised the numbers involved from hotel records? |
That's what I've been wondering. The facts, at least for hotels (as opposed to chalet owners etc) could so easily have been established and publicised. Uncharacteristically inefficient of the Swiss.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@achilles, Not that I've heard. I don't think that this is even a story in resort. Most of what they're hearing is coming from UK news sources.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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420 guest quarantined
50 left immediately.
Of the 370 others, fewer than a dozen were still in resort on Sunday.
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Source: Bagnes Local Authority. No idea if the figures are true and the article posted above disputes this version but that is what they've told the Swiss press. Given the cover up in Ischgl I wouldn't trust any ski area to give correct information, they can't even give you the snow depth 
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My British mate who lives in Grindelwald reports this morning that the village is extremely busy.
Population of Swiss is tiny so let's be clear, the crowds have come from a "variety" of European countries. The new variant appeared to start the purge, it is not however an English problem, we as a nation of capable scientists were the ones to call it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Rogerdodger wrote: |
My British mate who lives in Grindelwald reports this morning that the village is extremely busy.
Population of Swiss is tiny so let's be clear, the crowds have come from a "variety" of European countries. The new variant appeared to start the purge, it is not however an English problem, we as a nation of capable scientists were the ones to call it. |
There were some Chinese people in the resort I was in yesterday, they've flown to Europe for a winter holiday... or so the guy who spoke English told me.
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Such a good piece, good thread, glad to see some facts and a bit of understanding rather than the insults being slung around on the other thread. Thanks for posting it!
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The Valais government has asked for a full report on the situation in Verbier, this may shed some facts on the situation if it gets published.
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| j b wrote: |
| They obviously never thought to check out the facts with Swiss-based journalists. |
The story came from the Swiss Press Agency and was simply repeated by the British press when they picked it up on their newsfeed. That's how 95% of stories get published. AFP, DPA, PA etc. republish articles from their members and those get repeated. The source was the local authority giving figures to the Swiss Press, maybe they got their facts wrong ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The original story just didn’t ring true for me. How on earth could 200/400 individuals possibly independently co ordinate to all leave the same night.
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| davidof wrote: |
| The Valais government has asked for a full report on the situation in Verbier, this may shed some facts on the situation if it gets published. |
You think it might not?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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HUNDREDS FLEE COVID QUARANTINE HELL! = Several tourists decide to go home early. Hoteliers sad. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It started on Twitter that bastion of truth. The world would be a much happier place if Twitter was closed down. It used to serve a purpose now its just a place where angry people hang out and get angry at everything.
As the BBC journalist Jon Sopel wrote after our last general election, the left own Twitter but they need to understand that Twitter doesn't vote.
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@thefatcontroller, Davidoff has written that it started off with a Local Authority report. Have you information to say that he is wrong?
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You know it makes sense.
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@BobinCH, you do realise that since Trump became US president the term "fake news" means that it is actually true.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| achilles wrote: |
| @thefatcontroller, Davidoff has written that it started off with a Local Authority report. Have you information to say that he is wrong? |
There may have been Twitter rumours that tipped off the Swiss press agency but the reports in the UK press seem to be based on what the Swiss wrote.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| @thefatcontroller, Davidoff has written that it started off with a Local Authority report. Have you information to say that he is wrong? |
There may have been Twitter rumours that tipped off the Swiss press agency but the reports in the UK press seem to be based on what the Swiss wrote. |
It was trending on Twitter, thats how I saw it. Full of indignant lefties taking umbridge at the rich Brits fleeing Verbier. I read twitter for a laugh but don't post, its basically a lunatic asylum on line.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| @thefatcontroller, Davidoff has written that it started off with a Local Authority report. Have you information to say that he is wrong? |
There may have been Twitter rumours that tipped off the Swiss press agency but the reports in the UK press seem to be based on what the Swiss wrote. |
It was trending on Twitter, thats how I saw it. Full of indignant lefties taking umbridge at the rich Brits fleeing Verbier. I read twitter for a laugh but don't pospostt, its basically a lunatic asylum on line. |
II don't disagree with you about Twitter in general, but it does look as though some misinformation was peddled initially by the Swiss authorities.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| @thefatcontroller, Davidoff has written that it started off with a Local Authority report. Have you information to say that he is wrong? |
There may have been Twitter rumours that tipped off the Swiss press agency but the reports in the UK press seem to be based on what the Swiss wrote. |
It was trending on Twitter, thats how I saw it. Full of indignant lefties taking umbridge at the rich Brits fleeing Verbier. I read twitter for a laugh but don't pospostt, its basically a lunatic asylum on line. |
II don't disagree with you about Twitter in general, but it does look as though some misinformation was peddled initially by the Swiss authorities. |
Yes but pre Twitter the miss information could be corrected. In the Twitter era it becomes fact in anywhere between 5-10 seconds & it’s nearly impossible to correct what suddenly hits main stream press as fact. Twitter makes the life of PR people hell, facts are irrelevant. Indignation rules.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Is there any difference between Twitter and this forum. Look at the other thread on this topic, indignation and castigation rules.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@red_dragon, The "indignation" on the other thread was about people GOING on non essential travel from tier 4 areas TO the alps.
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Don't forget folks that when the main-stream Medja picked it up, and then published initially in their on-line offerings that the "Interns" were holding the fort so not too much in the way of Editorial Integrity going on 
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One of the people quoted in that report was once a frequent poster on snowHeads but long since drifted off (not in any way a flounceo).
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What you are seeing is a pathetic exercise in reputation management regardless of what actually happened - the phone lines between 'ski journos' and PRs must have been red hot over the last couple of days - in the Telegraph today, Abi Butcher goes on just a bit too much about Verbier's reputation being in tatters when nobody actually cares about reputations when ambulances are queueing up to deliver covid patients to exhausted and depleted NHS medics. This thing is going to get worse before it gets better and personal responsibility is everything - if travel isn't essential then don't.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
Yes but pre Twitter the miss information could be corrected. In the Twitter era it becomes fact in anywhere between 5-10 seconds & it’s nearly impossible to correct what suddenly hits main stream press as fact. Twitter makes the life of PR people hell, facts are irrelevant. Indignation rules. |
Wasn't it Mark Twain who said that a lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.
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FAQ
