Vancouver to Whistler - Car Hire and chains/winter tyres

A snowHead

We've got our first trip to Whistler booked for mid Feb. It's a DIY trip and I got a good deal on car hire through work. We have reserved a big 4x4 from Hertz but I'm struggling to find out whether the car will have winter tyres and/or whether I should/could get chains.

My understanding is that it's theoretically against the law to not have winters or chains but is that only enforced if its dumping?

Anyone with experience of renting and doing this drive got any insights on this?

A snowHead

Unless you're planning to drive somewhere, you car will simply sit at the parking lot at Whistler. And the majority of parking at WWhistler are not free. So there's extra expense you need to add to the hire cost.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Yep, gathered that but:-
1) Return transfers for 4 of us cost more of less the same as car hire with the deal I got
2) We are self catering and are planning one decent food shopping stop someone away from Whistler (looking at Squamish perhaps?)
3) Wife/older son get travel sick in a coach whereas driving up in a big 4x4 is now part of our adventure (we did Denver to Breck last year).

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Anyone?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Your hire care should come with winter tyres. My friend and I hired from Vancouver Avis last year and we hired possibly their smallest car (we were possibly the smallest thing on the road).

We didn't have chains in the car and we were fine, through some particulary challenging driving conditions too, but I can't comment on the legaility of whether we should have had them. I'm sure Google will be your friend on this.

The road itself is much improved on what it used to be. I'd also add that the road surface can be dirty, meaning the markings (which are yellow) are often tricky to see (and cats eyes, from memory, are a rarity) so I'd try so far as you can to do the journey in the light. The added bonus of this is that the views to the left on the way up are spectacular.

As for food stops, yes, Squamish is probably your best best if you don't want to negotiate a bigger option in Vancouver itself.

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Suggestions for food stops: either T&T in Vancouver (there are several) for cheap eats, or there are options in Squamish as others have mentioned.

The road up to Whistler was vastly improved for the 2010 Olympics and is no longer a terrifying 2-lane highway. As for parking costs, it depends where you're staying. Our chalet came with two free spots last time (spec'd for 12 people).

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

none of the rental places at the airport supply cars with snow tyres as standard. you may be able to get them if you pay extra. this lot are downtown and the only ones who I have found who make it easy to rent cars with snow tyres
http://www.pacificcarrentals.com
you will pass a big new safeway on Granville St, about 10 mins from the airport if you don't want to wait until you get to Squamish

After all it is free

We are picking up a 4x4 from Vancouver in Feb we have requested snow tyres. Last year they cost us $20 per day we had the car for 3 weeks. this year we will have the car for 4 weeks we are planing a trip to kal tire for snow chains is going to be cheaper than the snow tyres and than renting chains.

Think its Avis who have an office in Whistler village and do one way hire to and from Vancouver airport. Was cheapest way of transferring our family of four last Easter. About £60 each way. Road was fine at that time of year, no need for chains etc.

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Probably not much chance of getting snow tyres at Vancouver airport unless you specially request them, and even then not sure if you'd get them. Generally you can't put chains on rental cars
Mostly in Vancouver you don't absolutely need them (though we have winter tires on our car and truck).

You should have winter tyres to drive the sea to sky highway, since even if you drive up there and it is clear, it may well not be when you drive back. It is not quite a windy alpine road, but it is bendy in places, can get a lot of snow on it (which generally gets ploughed pretty fast, and squished down), and/or icy sections.
I have never needed snow chains yet, and I suspect that if the road was bad enough to need them it would be closed.
It is a requirement to have winter rated tyres on mountain highways (which the sea to sky highway is), however this just means you have to have a snowflake and mountain symbol on them, which some all-season/M+S tyres do also. Not having may lead to insurance complications if you have an accident

The RCMP (police) do stop cars, mostly just past Squamish where the road closure gate is), but only seem to do this if it is snowing/has snowed a lot - there seems little chance of that this year

Of course if you get stopped for anything else you may also have an issue.

PS you pay a ton more to rent a car at the airport
PPS You can get a private transfer that will also probably cost you less, or as mentioned above Avis is fairly handily located.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

see http://www.icbc.com/road-safety/safer-drivers/winter-driving and http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/SeasonalDriving/winter_chains.html

snow reports

When we went we got a deal on car hire, and we thought we would use the car, had free parking in resort etc etc. It was in the underground garage for 10 out of the 11 nights we were in Whistler. However, we used it on the final day to visit Stanley Park and Vancouver and it didn't cost us any more than a transfer would. A major accident on the Sea to Sky closed the road 30 minutes after we passed through.Others on here missed their flight that day. If we had stayed in resort for a transfer, we would have done too.

Been there every year since the 1980s, done this a fair bit. If you have a big 4wd you're fine. The law's the law, but I've never seen them stop people (they do it I know), and I've driven chain less 2wd rentals through brutal conditions on the Sea to Sky. As someone said, they'll close it if they need to. The main hazard is tourists who can't drive - that may be some of us, I realize. Mostly it's bare though. I have tried to get chains or decent tyres from rental companies in YVR but I don't think it can be done. That's not true if you rent from other places (eg Kamloops).

Two days ago the Duffy Lake Road was also bare, and for the first time ever I drove a 2wd summer-tyred rental over it. Not really for the feint of heart. I drove the Yellowhead yesterday, which was like a piste. Not a smart place to be with that vehicle, but it made it fine. Unlike the various vehicles on their roofs in the ditch.

Oh yes.. having a car in Whistler, well it depends where you're staying. The upper parking lots are free (for day skiing), and ski-in ski-out, so they are where the locals generally go.

You know it makes sense.

I looked at this when organising a trip two year's ago. Avis made it clear that driving to Whistler without winter tyres may be illegal. I asked if they provided winter tyres - they don't. They will rent you a car to drive to Whistler, and give it back to them in Whistler (i.e. one day's car hire) though. Utter bar stewards.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but this is a perennial problem. In normal times I travel to Vancouver and then Whistler etc on my non-work days. I have researched this fairly extensively and this led me to selecting Avis at YVR as they rent cars with snow tyres (or tires). I have not had what the Europeans consider to be winter tyres but rather all season or mud and snow tyres. These fitted to a Grand Cherokee, driven considerately in snow mode, were at times terrifying including at very low speeds navigating car parks at creekside - think Bambi on ice.

Despite attempting to source a hire car in Vancouver with 'proper' winter tyres I have never once been successful and as previous contributors have commented this is despite them being a legal requirement in the winter in BC. Possibly due to fact that snow is actually quite unusual in metropolitan Vancouver. I have not had the same problem hiring from Calgary airport.

Does anyone have any suggestions or experience of getting snow tyres from Vancouver Airport, opposed to all season or mud and snow? I suspect the mountain and flake is a European rather than global standard?

A snowHead

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but this is a perennial problem. In normal times I travel to Vancouver and then Whistler etc on my non-work days. I have researched this fairly extensively and this led me to selecting Avis at YVR as they rent cars with snow tyres (or tires). I have not had what the Europeans consider to be winter tyres but rather all season or mud and snow tyres. These fitted to a Grand Cherokee, driven considerately in snow mode, were at times terrifying including at very low speeds navigating car parks at creekside - think Bambi on ice.

Despite attempting to source a hire car in Vancouver with 'proper' winter tyres I have never once been successful and as previous contributors have commented this is despite them being a legal requirement in the winter in BC. Possibly due to fact that snow is actually quite unusual in metropolitan Vancouver. I have not had the same problem hiring from Calgary airport.

Does anyone have any suggestions or experience of getting snow tyres from Vancouver Airport, opposed to all season or mud and snow? I suspect the mountain and flake is a European rather than global standard?

A snowHead

Necro noted - why?

It's really not "a perennial problem", you just need to understand once what the the rules are in BC and the Sea to Sky Highway:
https://images.drivebc.ca/bchighwaycam/pub/html/www/index-Northern.html

They won't rent you anything which isn't legal and safe to drive to Whistler, full stop.
If they have any vehicles with winter wheels (as opposed to entirely legal M&S) then they will try charge you upgrade cost (even if that's all they have).
It's important to know your ground as you will be subject to a hard sales pitch at the rental desk.
They will also try to sell you insurance etc and tell you stories about broken windscreens, which are pretty rare on the Sea to Sky actually.
If they don't happen to have any vehicles with winter wheels, and you demand that, then there will be a big argy-bargy at the pick up point whilst they try to explain the rules to you as above.

Overall, the Sea to Sky is a really easy drive and although it gets closed now and then, the ploughs are good and the surface easy, it's no big deal.
The rental companies "book out" the decent 4wd vehicles (which I never bother with) way ahead of time and their prices for next season are already stratospheric, I hear.

My advice would be to read the rules and relax.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You aren't going to get full-on winter tires on a rental here, just all-seasons. Makes no sense for the rental agency: add in the cost of an extra set of tires, twice-yearly changes, storage, etc. They'd rather sell you insurance! While not as good in cold, AS tires are legal, adequate and with AWD you won't need chains. Unless I'm leaving the continent I usually drive to ski, and I haven't chained up, or seen chain controls for AWD vehicles, since 1983.

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@philwig, Thank you for posting a swift reply. The bit that I have struggled with is to specify winter tyres rather than m and s. I should also have given a bit more information which demonstrates my obsession with winter tyres. I agree Sea to Sky is usually straightforward. I also drive from Vancouver to Kelowna and Kamloops on the Coquihalla Highway which has been both fine and utterly white knuckle. Have also had a cracked windshield on this route.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

[quote="Scooter in Seattle"]You aren't going to get full-on winter tires on a rental here, just all-seasons.

That might be the reason I can't find them at YVR but have done at YYC.

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@Snowsartre, I'll see your cracked windshield on the Coq and raise you one! (plus a tire).

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

The Coquihalla is where you will get cracked screens, about $200 a pop to replace (I never take the insurance). I usually use the Duffy Lake Road because it avoids precisely that. The Coquihalla is more sporting as it gets the trucks. Kamloops rentals are cheaper and generally more winterised. It's best to check the conditions ahead of driving, but even in tough years the Duffy's always been an easy drive for me, from December through April. I do not of course drive close to anyone else, and I'm Lancashire trained. Bear in mind that there's no edible food between Whistler and Kamloops, and Kamloops can be marginal for that too.

AB cars do tend to have more full-on winter wheels, in fact if you find them in Vancouver the rental was probably driven from AB somewhere. The last time I rented from YYC the the ritual upsell was painful - I'm obviously English I guess. I know all of those roads better than any rental employee and they were all completely bare, and yet the sales pitch was terrifying. I just make a rule to never buy anything pushed at me at a rental desk. They're all on commission, which makes for dishonest people I'm afraid.

After all it is free

Will have a look at Google maps for Duffy Lake road, thank you. I know what you mean about food! Had a couple of good nights in the Pig I think in Kamloops

hmmm.

Look at my windscreen. I drive the Sea to Sky in winter a lot and it has plenty of scars, a lot of them from there.
It costs me $200 _deductable_ on my insurance to replace it - would be way over $1000 otherwise. I'm sure the rental place would really sting you - in fact I think one of them got into a bit of hot water for that a while ago...

That said, agree Coq is way worse. Loads of trucks (going flat out no matter what the weather just in case they need the momentum to get up a hill). I think they must get dump-trucks to unload massive piles of gravel!
Highway 1 is a bit of a gravel-fest too.

It used to be full on winters on mountain highways, but for a while now it is just M+S which I think are not necessarily any better than any other tire in mud and snow (except perhaps high performance summer tires)

Generalizing a bit, but the whole rentals on the sea to sky concerns me a bit. Come from some non-snowy place, possibly after a long flight, pick up a rental with the minimum required tires, vehicle you're not familiar with, road you're not familiar with, throw in a bit of bad weather, and off you go - what could go wrong?
I have driven the sea to sky lots of time when it is certainly challenging, and that's in my own car/truck with the right tires, and I have driven it literally hundreds of times as well as a bunch of other snowy roads.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

there's a great bus service runs up there. The driver, Dennis gives a great guided commentary on the way up and through Vancouver. He gets good tips

snow reports

So back to the default M&S - are these legal everywhere, for instance the Icefields Parkway ?

I've certainly had a few delicate drives up the Sea to Sky. I can remember one time sitting in a queue watching more than one vehicle slowly slide off the side of the road into a snow bank. Maybe not dangerous but definitely not fun

You know it makes sense.

I read on Pacific car rentals website that M and S tyres are NOT legal after Squarmish nor on the Coquihalla Highway in winter months see below:

Recommended Tires – Winter driving conditions are harsh; therefore, a tire with a snowflake or three-peaked mountain symbol are recommended with a minimum tread depth of 3.5mm.
The Law – The law accommodates M+S models and vehicles with either tire will be allowed to pass checkpoints where such tires are required. Commercial vehicles with 27,000 GVW or more must carry chains along these routes while trucks between 5,500kg and 27,000kg can use the winter tire model instead.
Areas Required to Have Winter Tires – Not all roads will require winter tires, but highways where the signage is present in BC will. Two such examples include the Coquihalla Highway and the Sea to Sky Highway between Squamish and Whistler. Therefore, if you regularly drive through these areas or other interior highways that require Winter Tires, or plan to this winter, you will need the proper tires in order to do so. Roads within city limits do not have this requirement, but most individuals cannot be 100% certain that they will never need to access highway—don’t be caught unprepared!
Will this Law Affect Me? It is estimated that only 40 percent of drivers will be required to use winter tires, but that is still a large majority of drivers. The law is already in effect for 2015, make sure you are prepared for your BC adventure

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Snowsartre, That was my take on the signage when some friends and I did a road trip a couple of years ago. We had a car with M&S tires but you needed a magnifying glass to spot the marker. The roadside signage did seem to indicate that Winters were required on some sections.

I tried to buy chains as a backstop but as mentioned above I don't think chains were compatible with the hire car so had to trust to luck.

A snowHead

Clicking through the link kindly posted by @philwig I'm not 100% clear if they regard M+S as a winter tire, or if have a M+S tire it needs the Mountain logo on it ?

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Snowsarte +1

The rules vary by province. It's best to go to the source...

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/traveller-information/seasonal/winter-driving/about-winter-tires

Note the "either" M+S or Snowflake comment. So as far as B.C is concerned M+S all seasons are road legal in winter on the highways.

There is no requirement for Winters in Alberta either but they are more common just because it's colder.

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType34/Production/Information%20About%20Winter%20Tires.pdf

That's facts. Now opinion.

Winter vs M+S is both a difference of tread design and rubber. What is "best" depends on conditions. Ploughed highway but cold then the different rubber of a proper winter will be the best grip. Warmer (say -2C) and lots of fresh snow then an aggressive M+S might actually be better. I run Michelin X-Ice because right now it's -25C outside and it's rare I'm driving in fresh snow...

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As far as I understand it, in terms of winter and snow performance, the only meaningful designation is the 'three peaks mountain & snowflake' (3PMSF), while M+S is effectively meaningless.

3PMAS is an international standard with certification that guarantees you a snow-biased tread pattern and just as important, a winter-biased compound chemistry in the tread. You're relying on the winter compound chemistry for driving safely in cold conditions just as much as the tread pattern. In addition, winter tyres also carry small sipes - mini-grooves - in the tread to help them squirm and warm up faster, plus they hold a bit of snow, to get better snow-on-snow traction. Most 3PMSF tyres also carry the M+S stamp as well (why not? It doesn't mean much anyway).

M+S is a self-designation by the manufacturer and doesn't guarantee you anything other than a chunky tread pattern i.e. no winter-oriented tread compound. Most M+S-only tyres don't have sipes, either.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I am sure this has been covered, but I've been to Whistler numerous times.

You're good with what the rental car company gives you. The roads are very well maintained. It would only be on a highly unusual day that you would need anything more - and if that was the case, it is likely that no cars are getting in an around.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@Snowsartre,

I'm fairly sure it's got both, M+S and Three peak winter on the sign just after Squamish, so you're good if that's what the rules say on the link above. Whether that's a good rule or not...
As pointed out, on days its really bad road will be closed (very rare). Mostly its compact snow or ice, and mostly that is on the second half of the road between Whistler and Squamish.
Sometimes it gets icy between West Vancouver and Squamish, and this catches people out because it's less common and hard to spot.
Last few times going up had been a bit of snow on the road, but the worst thing has been "Millennium Falcon snow" and dense fog. Also get some very heavy rain which makes for lots of standing water - again between West Van and Squamish is worst for this.
Just need to take it easy and it's all good.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Thanks all. As I auto-corrected in my second post my bigger concern is the Coquihalla which has nearly killed me on more than one occasion hence my quest to find a rental car with mountain flake winter tyres. As this thread demonstrates, this is way more complicated than it should be! Not going to be an issue until January 2022, virus permitting...

Help!!

Vancouver to Whistler - Car Hire and chains/winter tyres

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