@Weathercam, “And if touring with a Frenchie ask them what the French is for "faff" as I've still yet to find out”
This is not the correct approach: you should, instead, educate your French friends as I have done so that they immediately understand “trop de faffage” and get a move on. Unfortunately it can come back to bite you...
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Grinning, sorry wasn't clear, I believe, though you now may have enlightened me, that there is not a literal French translation of "faff", are you saying it is faffage ?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Weathercam, I've always tried to explain to guides that the verb "faffer" is what their language really lacks. Depending how much "faffage" has taken place some guides have been more than happy to adopt it by the end of the day as in "OK, vous avez suffisament faffé, Allez!"
“Faffage” is an invented word. As far as a straight translation is concerned, the below might approximate but don’t convey the “avoidable messing about” nature of a good British “faff“:
perte de temps...
bricolage...
noeuds au cerveau...
deux pieds dans les mêmes sabots...
lourd...
lent...
etc...
bricolage.... is possibly closest:
"arrete de bricoler, sois concentré"
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Grinning, C’est vrai mais au même temps je ne trouve aucune phrase qui rassemble tout l’idée de « avoidable messing about ». C’est pourquoi il fallait l’inventé !
If you are genuinely new to touring don't let @Weathercam, list intimidate.
The list is spot on and I'm sure there is more. Not one of us becomes the complete tourer in a day, a month or a season. Touring is a multi faceted business and learning never stops, the poor days have more faff than the good ones. Learn, laugh and enjoy the journey!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Weathercam wrote:
And if touring with a Frenchie ask them what the French is for "faff" as I've still yet to find out
I had a very funny lift ride (sorry, I know it's a touring thread, but... the internet) with some Swedes I was doing an Off Piste week with a few years ago when I introduced them to the words 'Faff' and 'Faffer'. I think I made their week.
After all it is free
After all it is free
-Practice kick turns somewhere flatish.
A steep switchback (is that the right term?) probably isn't the best place to start
-Loose pants (in the ski pants not underpants sense, though maybe both! ).
Perhaps it is just me but I think Arcteryx have been making their designs more svelte!? Or maybe I'm just getting fatter? But I find my latest pair of Arcteryx Sabre pants tend to be a bit tight around the thighs which is really annoying for touring.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Rogerdodger wrote:
......Touring is a multi faceted business and learning never stops, the poor days have more faff than the good ones.....
So true.............
And really if at all possible, start touring when the weather and snow is pleasant.
When I first started out it was essentially something you did in pleasant Spring temps, skiing corn snow, which is easy to ski and probably better than the piste, and requires no off-piste skillsets, and can be done on non-powder skis.
The video below is some friends I took out for their first time touring, very safe and easy terrain.
Currently, in the depths of winter, people in resort are ski- touring for the first time and then having to deal with off-piste conditions on the piste, and the conditions can get pretty demanding as it gets tracked out, and then there is the actual weather (cold / flat-light to deal with etc)
At Noon I'm taking someone out who has not really skied off-piste and I was hoping for more than the 7-8cms we had overnight, he's borrowing my Black Crows Atris mounted with frame bindings but the objective is not so much about the going up, but the coming down, hence the big ski setup, so we'll lap the piste in front two or three times and get him smashing through the chopped up fresh, on the basis that "Speed is your friend"
And the forecast is maybe rain by then
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
When I first started out it was essentially something you did in pleasant Spring temps, skiing corn snow, which is easy to ski and probably better than the piste, and requires no off-piste skillsets, and can be done on non-powder skis.
That is a good point. A great intro is to go into the guides office when you have a week of spring skiing in fine weather and ask them to let you know if they have a "intro to touring" group going out any time that week. They will then start a list and put a group together if other people come in. Doing your first trip in fine weather and spring snow maximises your chance of having a good time I reckon.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Equally - you really learn A LOT when conditions get iffy.
e.g., weather comes in, viz is bad, you make an bad route decision because you didn't want to get the map out in a blizzard, get uncomfortable with the terrain/avvy risk and decide you better climb back up and realise that you should have had your skins down your front because they have frozen up and aren't sticking...
That was an education. Of course some might say a smarter person might have avoided needing to learn the hard way
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
jedster wrote:
Equally - you really learn A LOT when conditions get iffy.
e.g., weather comes in, viz is bad, you make an bad route decision because you didn't want to get the map out in a blizzard, get uncomfortable with the terrain/avvy risk and decide you better climb back up and realise that you should have had your skins down your front because they have frozen up and aren't sticking...
That was an education. Of course some might say a smarter person might have avoided needing to learn the hard way
Isn’t that the case in most things that you learn the most from your mistakes as the (painful) consequences stick in your memory. DONT BUY XENICS!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Grinning wrote:
@Weathercam, “And if touring with a Frenchie ask them what the French is for "faff" as I've still yet to find out”
This is not the correct approach: you should, instead, educate your French friends as I have done so that they immediately understand “trop de faffage” and get a move on. Unfortunately it can come back to bite you...
Putain ce blaireau, il a sa tête dans le cul, il chie dans la colle avec son matos.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
Putain ce blaireau, il a la tête dans le cul, il chie dans la colle avec son matos.
All of those work but they are a touch punchier than "faff".
FWIW. I've spent a lot of time waiting for people (everything about splitboards is just worse). A lot of people have waited for me. As long as it's not a safety issue, this is a normal part of the learning process and people shouldn't get too hung up on it.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@gorilla, yep and an experienced tourer needs to have a word with themselves if they take a noob somewhere where a bit of faff makes the difference between safety or not
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
gorilla wrote:
FWIW. I've spent a lot of time waiting for people (everything about splitboards is just worse).
@Swirly ???
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I've had some touring kit for some time but really used it much. Recently though I've used it more, in resort. Several people have stopped and given me advice on my set up/technique
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Claude B wrote:
I've had some touring kit for some time but really used it much. Recently though I've used it more, in resort. Several people have stopped and given me advice on my set up/technique
What like free your heels and put the skins on when going up?
@Weathercam, 7-8 cms is not off-piste Hope you miss the rain - it is positively vile in Chamonix right now.
Also worth mentioning - on learning - that the difference between “no problem” and “how T F do I get down from this?” can be a scarily thin veneer!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@BobinCH, he was quicker than me in some circumstances and slower than others. It all came out in the wash. He no longer posts but he was a great ski partner and I trusted his judgement totally.
Seeing as I am bored and this thread has drifted considerably from Idris noble intentions, here are some observations about touring with a splitboarder as a skier. Info may be slightly dated but I doubt the kit has moved on that much:
1. Their transitions are different, slower and much harder in the cold as they may need to do something requiring dexterity with cold metal. Be prepared to help. This is a safety issue in very cold weather.
2. They will sink during transitions as they need to unclip from both "skis" in order to put the board back together. They can't do the standard skier thing of standing on one ski while transitioning the other. In the main, this just slower but can potentially be dangerous. Regarding transitions on glaciers - the best thing here is to avoid transitioning on a glacier unless you absolutely have to. Otherwise I've been known to probe the proposed transition area very thoroughly.
3. The torsional rigidity in the bindings isn't as good as a pin binding which compromises their ability to sidehill. If you are in doubt as to the quality of the snow, the team benefits from skiers going first and passing information back to the boarder. The boarder may need to put their crampons on well ahead of the skier.
4. Route planning. Splitboards are, imv, good for going up steady gradient slopes and then coming back down again. Anything that involves time on the flat is bad as the usual tricks snowboarders use to deal with flats don't work away from the piste. Similarly anything involving multiple transitions will be more time consuming than with skiers.
well that was an eloquent argument for learning to ski
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB wrote:
Claude B wrote:
I've had some touring kit for some time but really used it much. Recently though I've used it more, in resort. Several people have stopped and given me advice on my set up/technique
What like free your heels and put the skins on when going up?
Noo level 1 rather than 0 Having my heels on a higher setting and not lifting the ski (although I thought I was sliding). Seen loads doing the same this week.
After all it is free
After all it is free
under a new name wrote:
[.....7-8 cms is not off-piste Hope you miss the rain - it is positively vile in Chamonix right now......
Couldn't have timed it better, for the rain that is
When I started out twas very pleasant but had to faff at his place adjusting boots n'bindings etc
And the snow was so heavy, as I said to him probably the worst snow pack of the year, after all the great days we've had, and it was so grim on the way down.
Usually, I manage to avoid venturing out in the rain, and that's just reinforced by habitude!
But the positives were, so much easier to have a beginner touring on frame bindings (though he's just sent me his HR analysis), I'd almost say kick-turns were easier with them, or maybe he just had a good coach
Best thing was that he loved the Black Crows Atris (best ski for the conditions) as he could really feel the difference between his piste skis and those and he loved the whole experience.
So as he's an early bird he'll be out practising prior to going behind his desk etc I'll just have to remember what gear he has of mine, and boots as well!
And @gorilla, you know them well, why do you think I made that comment about split-boarders should practice transitions blindfolded
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Splitboarders have a lot more fun going down
But the transitions are a PITA especially in bad weather.
I prefer not to tour with skiers. Hard to keep up all other things being equal.
The phantom hard boot setups look good and are supposed to make life a lot easier for side hilling but they are crazy expensive.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I'm saving up for one of these in time for my first tour with @Weathercam
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I first got into touring when I was snow-boarding back in 98/99 on our La Grave trips.
Went from snow-shoes to mini-approach skis and ski touring boots whilst mates were split-boarding.
Over the course of time we've all switched back to skis, though one mate still tours with us on his Split and he throws serious cash at all the latest must-have equipment (Karakorum gear https://www.splitboardbindings.com/ ), and he does practice his transitions blind-folder I kid ye not, he is fiercely competitive and tries to be the first to be ready!!!
And @Arno, think I'll pass
That said as part of the Derby in La Grave they Monoskis have a massive get together there, and you see dudes my age and older really ripping .
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@clarky999, I'd be getting it purely for the faff factor
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Arno wrote:
@clarky999, I'd be getting it purely for the faff factor
as in - the more the better
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Weathercam wrote:
I first got into touring when I was snow-boarding back in 98/99 on our La Grave trips.
Reminded me of my 93 year old father-in-law who calls emails “e-mails”
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
jedster wrote:
well that was an eloquent argument for learning to ski
I’m sure I told him this several times
He was bl00dy determined but needed crampons on any vaguely steep climbs and even used them walking round the backside path to avoid sliding down into the lake. They were also a nightmare on difficult traverses!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Can't quite make out what gear these "newbs" are using but was good sport watching them from chez moi go for their kick-turns on quite a steep piste in front of me.
Snow must be soggy as hell with the rain and temps at +7
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Re: faffing, after having it explained to them, a few Frenchies reckon "glander" is the closest they have, but they all love Le Faff
@KenX, well with all this shite weather, I'm going to go and have an all-mighty faff setting up my turbo in the garage, first there's the actual bike, then all the necessary tech and subsequent connectivity etc
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Weathercam, penultimate tourer looks like a split-boarder or he's on twin-tips. I think that's his helmet on top of the pack and not a small child! [opens worm can] thread drift warning - move away from faffage and back to ski touring tips
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
A friend of mine had a saying which applies equally to touring or alpine climbing, “nothing weighs nothing”.
After all it is free
After all it is free
That thread title is begging for a visit from the spelling police.....
Assuming this is for beginners, I don’t think many will be concerned with traversing glaciers or needing crampons.
So in defense of the minority split boarders, I’ve never had an issue with steepness, at least below 2200m. Resort touring is easy and fun on a split board. Given the expense and supply issues though most boarders I see are still using snowshoes and strapping the board to backpack. If the shoe-er is fit there is little time difference, slightly slower up, but no transition to faff with.
Again we are not talking about multi day or even multi transition, just the 99% of trips to ride some fresh snow.
As for faff factors, I have found the biggest difference is not the number of planks, it’s the individual. Some people like to tell a 10min story while getting into their gear in the car park, whilst others like me already have skins on from night before and are chomping to get first tracks. Have little patience for slow Joes on a powder day. Get on with it etc
Second point, how many pages have we had about ski touring bindings, boots, brakes, blah blah blah. ...30?
How many for split board issues. Zero.
Some of you have possibly spent more time typing about ski touring issues than I will on a whole season of transitions.
And finally it’s all about having a fun day out with mates.....so faffers / slow Joe’s are quickly forgotten once the adventure begins
Last edited by After all it is free on Sat 6-02-21 9:39; edited 2 times in total
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
polo wrote:
Second point, how many pages have we had about ski touring bindings, boots, brakes, blah blah blah. ...30?
How many for split board issues. Zero.
Might be worth starting another thread just for that.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@polo, I spent a very entertaining season skiing with a split boarder. It was great. The point of the post was not to bag on splitboarders but to point out some ways in which skiers can accommodate/help splitboarders in certain common situations. And I agree with you. For short tours from the lift in easy touring terrain, there are no major disadvantages for a splitboarder versus a ski tourer.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Hope you miss the rain - it is positively vile in Chamonix right now.
