 Poster: A snowHead
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The ski resort of les Arcs has reached an out of court settlement with Jean-Louis Segains who lost his ski pass three weeks before the end of the season. The resort has forced Mr Segains to buy a new ski pass. Mr Segains then sued les Arcs in Moutiers court, the case was due to be heard on the 9th of June.
In an 11th hour move Mme Isabelle Chevalier, the legal advisor for les Arcs met Mr Segains and agreed to pay for his second ski pass on the understanding he didn't reveal the terms of the settlement.
However Mr Segains had a strong case, a French government commission said that it was abusive for ski companies to force skiers to replace photo lift passes at their own cost. It is estimated that 100s of people lose their lift passes each year and are obliged to buy a replacement. However skiers should note the serial number of their photo lift pass on their receipt and keep this in a safe place. Oh and print off this story to show the lift company.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thank you Davidof, now I wonder if we can do anything about Lift companies refusing to transfer seasons lift-passes. Every time we have an employee leave, we have to surrender their seasonaire's lift pass and buy another. No credit for any unused element and no reduction on the new pass irrespective of the length of vaidity.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I was absolutely gutted after losing my lift pass on the first day of my holiday in Alpe D'Huez this January. Even worse as I had just bought a new holder as the old one was worn. So confident it was secure, the cord broke after only a few hours on the slopes. Had to fork out £100 for the privelage of a new one and spent the first afternoon looking up at the slopes from my hotel as they were going to charge me a full day rate for the remainder of the afternoon!!!!
The system they use in Alpe D is not good as there is no electronic component to the lift pass, just a photo. Sometimes they look at it but mostly they don't for this reason I was unsure what slope I had lost the pass, I had probably covered 25km of piste, through several lifts without realising. Very frustrating 
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Thanks for that davidof, I'd wondered before at the inconsistency of the French system (nothing new there). After all, when you get a season pass you are actually advised to note the number and keep the receipt in case you lose it. So what's the difference between that and losing a two week pass? (Sometimes the latter costs more too!!)
(Shame it was an out of court settlement by the way, and not a formal legal ruling... don't suppose that it will be of much use in future claims as a result).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| PG wrote: |
Thanks for that davidof, I'd wondered before at the inconsistency of the French system (nothing new there). After all, when you get a season pass you are actually advised to note the number and keep the receipt in case you lose it. So what's the difference between that and losing a two week pass? (Sometimes the latter costs more too!!)
(Shame it was an out of court settlement by the way, and not a formal legal ruling... don't suppose that it will be of much use in future claims as a result). |
I remember you had some other problems with Les Arcs earlier in the season. In this case les Arcs were refusing to refund a whole season passbut the commision said that the no-refund clause was abusive for any personal lift passes.
You can certainly see why the CdA wanted to keep this out of court, although the case was only in the Tribunal d'Instance (small claims court) so would not have established case law unless les Arcs had then appealed to a higher court and lost. Still I think the news is worth noting if people have problems in France in the future.
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Hadn't read your post correctly, didn't realise it was a season pass. When a club member lost his at Orcières Merlette, no problem at all in getting it replaced, for a small admin fee. Les Arcs is going 'electronic' - they'll have no excuse then, they can just cancel the original so that it no longer works at the turnstiles. Merlette has had the electronic system for several years now.
( OT tip - don't put your mobile phone in the same pocket as the electronic pass, it completely bugs up the system....)
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| stuarth wrote: |
Some Canadian resorts have a system where your ski pass comes in two bits with bar codes on. You keep one half so if you loose your pass you take this to the ticket office where they cancel the first one and issue you with a new one - free!  |
That happens with Swatch passes, I presume to guard against the actual Swatch failing which is pretty regular.
Locally, there's dire warnings with the lift passes that if you lose them then there's no replacement or refund but this is a failry Swiss attitude to life in general.
Our season passes in France appear to offer replacement on loss but I've never had to put it to the test. This last couple of seasons where we've had electronic passes for Flaine and St Gervais would make it look easier to implement.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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At Serre Chevalier at Easter, we received a receipt for each electronic pass, which we were advised to reatin in case of loss. In Banff our youngest lost his pass on the last day and as I had the receipt they replaced it.
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Wouldn't it be great if the French resorts could refer to the details of the season pass they issued - and will no doubt have on file, rather than asking the poor punter to go and dig out his records! I'm sure you could force them to do this under the data protection act anyway - so worth thinking about if they tell you they need the number before they can proceed. Obviously getting a modern electronic system is the real solution, I always think French lifties should check out Austria and the see modern systems in most resorts.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| lewis wrote: |
| ... I'm sure you could force them to do this under the data protection act anyway |
Is there a data protection act in France? Not quite sure that our act was a result of a Eurpoean directive, so perhaps the French don't have an equivalent. Anyone know?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think there is something very similar from my forays into the French legal world - buying an apartment.
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The simple answer is to look after it - really well.
Use a decent cord and put it round your neck rather than on a holder which can easily be torn off. It may be slight hassle but it'll give you peace of mind.
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You know it makes sense.
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Intrestingly Ise I found that this year in the Jungfrau region a note was issued to all people getting the new lift passes to keep the recipt and that a new pass would be issued on its production, this I understand is because they have gone to an individually numbered ski pass system where all they have to do is type the number of the lost pass into the system and it becomes voided, also the photo passes have the photo printed onto the pass (looks dreadful) but every time it's used the photo in colour also comes up on an opperators screen
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The other thing this year is that Jungfrau have moved to everyone having a remote electronic pass....so you put it in your pocket and leave it there, which makes it harder to lose.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Use a decent cord and put it round your neck rather than on a holder which can easily be torn off
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The trouble with that is it flutters around and whacks you in the face or swings round the back where the lifties can't see it. In resorts where you have to show a pass, I quite like the transparent arm band type of passholder. High time they all went electronic but I suppose the kit is quite an investment for small resorts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's about time that every jacket manufacturer put transparent ‘pass’ pockets on the sleeves. I had one on an old SimmerStyle jacket, ‘did what it said on the tin’ electronic or otherwise. I miss the convenience. And it kept it away from my phone – which ‘wiped’ more than one electronic pass. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Masque wrote: |
| It's about time that every jacket manufacturer put transparent ‘pass’ pockets on the sleeves. I had one on an old SimmerStyle jacket, ‘did what it said on the tin’ electronic or otherwise. I miss the convenience. And it kept it away from my phone – which ‘wiped’ more than one electronic pass. |
Transparent ? naff and punterish. Having to continually show your pass means you're somewhere naff where the skiing's below the access points. The "armband" style ones you put on are even worse.
Somewhere handy for electronic passes is a good idea I suppose. But most ski clothing has quite enough pockets already I'd think. As for mobile phones, it's not a problem for people with transceivers since the phone shouldn't have been on anyway.
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In certain areas they are resiting the hands-free passes as the investment is high, but also by having passes that have to be checked they can employ people and thus claim to be supporting the local economy
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Having to continually show your pass means you're somewhere naff where the skiing's below the access points.
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Not necessarily - La Plagne for example has smaller 'village' zones or domaines as well as the whole area pass and now also Paradiski, including Les Arcs. You pays your money and takes your choice. Hardly a naff place. So you have to show only as you cross zone boundaries. Nothing to do with altitude. But they are way behind the times with the style of cheap and cheerful photo pass they used. 
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| Quote: |
Having to continually show your pass means you're somewhere naff where the skiing's below the access points.
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Not necessarily - La Plagne for example has smaller 'village' zones or domaines as well as the whole area pass and now also Paradiski, including Les Arcs. You pays your money and takes your choice. Hardly a naff place. So you have to show only as you cross zone boundaries. Nothing to do with altitude. But they are way behind the times with the style of cheap and cheerful photo pass they used. |
They'll be a couple of exceptions but the as a general rule it's fairly valid. Those aren't really exceptions though, they check at the access points and not above so you don't need to keep showing the pass enough to make it really worthwhile having it visible all day.
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WARNING - off topic post!
| ise wrote: |
| As for mobile phones, it's not a problem for people with transceivers since the phone shouldn't have been on anyway. |
I thought that the problems between mobile phones and transceivers is that they conflict with the receiving bit, not the transmission - and so you can have your phone on just as long as you turn it off before searching. Is this wrong?
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| Tony Lane wrote: |
| I thought that the problems between mobile phones and transceivers is that they conflict with the receiving bit, not the transmission - and so you can have your phone on just as long as you turn it off before searching. Is this wrong? |
Actually that is exactly what some of the reports say. There's some variance in some of the reports though, for example BCA reckon the Tracker DTS is less susceptible in search mode than others and that effect on transmission is insignificant. A reasonable precaution would seem to be to not have them turned on.
Personally mine's provided by the office so I turn it off in case anyone has the bright idea of ringing me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There's no such thing as naff when it comes to snow on a hill, and I'm really not bothered about showing a pass. I just want to get to the top of the hill with as little hasle as possible 
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| ise wrote: |
| As for mobile phones, it's not a problem for people with transceivers since the phone shouldn't have been on anyway. |
On an historical note I was the first person to publish information on the problem of interference between mobile phones and transceivers... in the English speaking world anyway.
The problem really concerns digital readout transceivers in search mode. Personally I would keep all electronic gear away from your transceiver when searching, especially walkie-talkies. Even a Suunto watch can affect the readout of some transceivers.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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thanks, davidof, i had not realised that two-way radios could also cause problems. I'll remember that.
best take my vintage rolex, a couple of plastic cups and a long piece of string next time i go off-piste 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Tony Lane wrote: |
thanks, davidof, i had not realised that two-way radios could also cause problems. I'll remember that.
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There are no 100%s, but if you are concerned about a piece of kit place a transceiver on transmit and then see if any electronic kit you have causes problems with your transceiver.
I found that Suunto watches could effect early version Arva 9000 transceivers if the two were in close proximity. Now a Suunto watch, to my mind, doesn't produce a great deal of electromagnetic radiation. I think it is wise to keep any electronics away from digital transceivers if you are searching or bear in mind thay they may have an effect.
There isn't really a problem with analog transceivers as your brain can distinguish between the signal of the victim's transceiver and other interference... assuming it is not too powerful.
I remember when I first mentioned this problem around the end of January 2001 a lot of people were sceptical but for mobile phones it is now part of the orthodoxy.
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The bit about phones reminded me................I had to call out the RAC last summer 'cause the car wouldn't start...............turns out that keeping electronic car keys near your mobile is a very bad idea, I should have known really 
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You know it makes sense.
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Lorraine, that sounds like a technology failure to me - never used to happen with old fashioned metal keys!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Certainly was, have you ever asked about the cost of replacing electronic keys?.....I nearly passed out!
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Poster: A snowHead
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I expect replacing electronic keys costs as much as replacng my whole bike!
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