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Two sets of boots necessary?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi All,
I'm an advanced skiier, 42 yo. I'm getting all over my local hill (Whitewater) and doing some touring with Lange 130 touring boots. I love them for general skiing round. About 35 days a year. However I get a bit unsettled with even small jumps, get a bit pushed around in Moguls etc. I've always had stiff boots, and am wondering if getting something more flexible is a good idea to get more into jumping and the such?
Was thinking perhaps a full tilt with the tongues you can swap the flexibility on? Are these bunk?
Is there any point in this? Or is the answer a lesson?
Thanks for opinions
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Not necessary but certainly the “right” boots, fit for purpose make absolute sense. I do all my touring and free skiing on Salomon MTN LABs - I think they’re around 120 but way softer in feel than my downhill boots (130 flex) for boilerplate days only, really, which are thankfully rare. I don’t do any jumping as such other than drops in powder and the park is certainly not on my radar. The LABs have suited me well. The FTs are not “bunk” - they abound in the park scene and their forebearers, Raichle Flexon Comps were my most comfy boots ever - no idea what flex the VIPs were, they always felt pretty soft and the flexibility-tongue gave the impression you could fold them in half.

Dalbello do the Lupo with a changeable tongue - they offer a stiff touring boot - think they do a 130 which suits my son but I’m not aggressive enough to need them - I have prioritised a great fit.

90kgs/26.5

Never been there but Whitewater looks fun. Very envious if you have the opportunity to be skiing this season. Good luck to you
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Lessons.
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motdoc wrote:
Hi All,
I'm an advanced skiier, 42 yo. I'm getting all over my local hill (Whitewater) and doing some touring with Lange 130 touring boots. I love them for general skiing round. About 35 days a year. However I get a bit unsettled with even small jumps, get a bit pushed around in Moguls etc. I've always had stiff boots, and am wondering if getting something more flexible is a good idea to get more into jumping and the such?
Was thinking perhaps a full tilt with the tongues you can swap the flexibility on? Are these bunk?
Is there any point in this? Or is the answer a lesson?
Thanks for opinions


Would have thought you’d want the stiffer boots for moguls/jumping for the extra support and something softer/lighter for touring when you’re spending most of the time ascending. What are your skis? Maybe the tails are a bit stiff and/or your technique us a bit back seat?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@BobinCH, soooo. The Lange 130s are too stiff for touring? You confuse me.

Puzzled Puzzled
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under a new name wrote:
@BobinCH, soooo. The Lange 130s are too stiff for touring? You confuse me.

Puzzled Puzzled


Come on now it’s really not that complicated is it?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@BobinCH, (maybe Softer) defo lighter for touring, for sure, stiffer for bumps, not so much, but I'm not thinking many mortals require specific boots for bumps Puzzled

Anyhoo, aren't you touring on 0-G 130s? which are defo stiffer than the Langes, at least this seasons... Twisted Evil
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Bumps throw you about so I would think you want something pretty supportive (aka stiff) to enable you to be as precise as possible and react fast. I would definitely steer clear of bumps in the Zero G’s compared to if I was wearing bulkier Alpine/freeride boots like Lange XT. Same for jumping. So I’m questioning why he would be looking for softer than Lange XT for bumps/jumps. I would understand it if he was asking for touring. In summary suspect the problem isn’t the boots but who knows it’s just my opinion
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@BobinCH, back in the day, pro bumps skiers tended to go for softer boots (think Raichle Flexons (Dalbello these days)).

Being thrown about in bumps is not an equipment issue ... (well, it is on FIS SL skis with too much grip, IMHE).
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under a new name wrote:

Being thrown about in bumps is not an equipment issue ... (well, it is on FIS SL skis with too much grip, IMHE).


Erm might not be for you but it sure is for me if I take some long stiff tailed skis in some big bumps, versus something I can bend and slide round them
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^^ It can definitely be the case that boots are too stiff to allow the necessary flexing to absorb hits, especially at relatively lower speeds (like in icy bumps) compared to general skiing
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The plastic in the Lange XT is pretty temp sensitive. I can see how someone would have problems flexing them if it is very cold.
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motdoc

Full Tilt are the park skier's boot of choice - very progressive flex to stop unbalancing and shin bang. But don't believe the flex rating of the tongues - they run soft. The 103 last ones (e.g. B&E) are excellent.
And they would be very good for bumps - soft to absorb impact but without collapsing.

Bumps very much a matter of technique - practice practice practice and......practice.

Oh...and it's weird, VERY legs together narrow stance. In one coaching session I had my legs tied together by the coach (gee...thanks Dave) and thought 'I'm going to die' - and then did a steep bump field. It worked. Good drill.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
valais2 wrote:
motdoc

Full Tilt are the park skier's boot of choice - very progressive flex to stop unbalancing and shin bang.


My bold, but actually it's the opposite - Full Tilts, Dalbellos, and the 3 piece cabrio style boots have a very linear flex, without harshly ramping up/hitting the wall when you get deep into the flex.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
clarky999 wrote:
^^ It can definitely be the case that boots are too stiff to allow the necessary flexing to absorb hits, especially at relatively lower speeds (like in icy bumps) compared to general skiing


^ this.
130 flex is stiff : basically what you might find in a race boot.
for bumps / off piste / freestyle you need some ankle flex to absorb the hits.
therefore a softer boots can be better - especially for smaller people with less leverage.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Haggis_Trap, ultimately it’s a matter of taste, no? I am a mere 168cms but I did spend a couple of years in nominal “150” boots ... and I love bumps.almost better than powder.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have Atomic Redster 130 piste boots while my much softer freeride style boots are the Salomon Quest Max 130s. Although they have the same rating there is a huge difference in stiffness. I first tried the Quest 120s as an all round boot but when on fat skis I found them to be totally overpowered. When I used to do jumps and off piste in the Redsters it was often damn painful, they were very unforgiving when not being driven and if you landed anything on the tails they gave you some nice bruises across the calf muscle. The Salomons are also fine for shorter tours up to an hour or so.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 29-01-21 22:15; edited 1 time in total
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under a new name wrote:
@Haggis_Trap, ultimately it’s a matter of taste, no?


Agree - personal taste a huge factor!
Just pointing out the modern thinking.
In disciplines where ankle flex is important (freestyle, off piste, bumps etc) the absolute stiffest boot not always considered optimal.

Though as ever different people will like different skis / boots <etc>
Plus a 130 atomic race boot might feel very different to a 130 dalbello freeride boot (flex rating not calibrated).
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Thanks for this. When I'm next feeling flush I'll likely try something softer for a change!

Also lessons ;p I tend to use them for skipping the line on a snow day so don't end up learning much except how to have more fun!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@motdoc, I should also say, I usually ski with my clips not very tightly done up ... which means mostly not as stiff a boot as built.
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@motdoc:

Anecdotal, agreed that personal taste applies in this.
Few years ago, found my self in a similar position, dissatisfied w.r.t. Lange boot pair sold to me by an, ahem, bootfitter.
The stiffness problem for me was what @Clarky999 said above: the harsh ramping up/hitting the wall of the Langes when I got deeper into the flex.
That's what you can expect with 2-piece boots.
As I understand it, the boot relies, if there's anything other than a minor flex, on the cuff's distortion of the clog, which is basically crushing it down onto your foot.
They have to make 'em with a stiffness 'wall', else yer feet end up in A&E.

An, ahem, bootfitter, thought my problem could be fixed.
I got him to cut the plastic.
But I went shopping too.
Next season I had both those Langes and a pair of Dalbello cambrios too.

No contest.
The Langes went to the recycling centre.
Dalbello cabrio models can offer different adjustments/options - cuff stiffness, cant, a forward buckle ('width' of forefoot (I know)), walk mode, gripwalk, tongue.
That's useful for selecting for personal preferences when buying, and adjustments in use.

Agreed that personal taste applies in this.
Happy feet, happier skier.
Good luck.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thanks for your thoughtful reply; I actually love the Langes but am aware I've never tried anything softer, and wonder if I'm missing out.

Interestingly from your comments talking about the "wall" I burst through it in a mogul wipe out a couple of years back and somehow popped the top of the boot over the back of the foot part with my foot stuck in tippy toe position! Took a lot of elbow grease to get it back into place.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
motdoc wrote:
Thanks for this. When I'm next feeling flush I'll likely try something softer for a change!

Also lessons ;p I tend to use them for skipping the line on a snow day so don't end up learning much except how to have more fun!


Toofy Grin Toofy Grin

How's the season out there this year ? Madeye-Smiley
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Funny season been warmer than previous years. Still some amazing days to be had Wink Getting more into the touring, resort skiing coming along well.

How you going?
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motdoc, Not so bad thanks, plans for this season not going to happen due to Covid Sad Postponed until next, hopefully.

Can understand the touring, given the area, and can imagine your resort skiing doing really well - no need to rub it in about amazing days Toofy Grin
Enjoy the rest of the wintertime, can imagine its not too busy this year.
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