 Poster: A snowHead
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Looking to upgrade my kit as touring is increasingly looking like a smarter thing to do, particularly as i have some stuff accessible right at the back of my house.
What i'm thinking of doing is adding a set of salomon shifts (10 Din will do me fine, have my ski's set to 7 and never a bother with prereleases)
My current skis are Stockli Stormrider 95s, with Salomon XM13s. While these are relatively heavy i think they should be ok for shortish tours (max I can see myself doing is about 600-700m of up)
I plan on also buying a pair of slalom skis for piste days and mounting the XM13's on them.
So queries for the wise
1) Are the stormriders likely to be too heavy at 1850g per ski?
2) I can't find anything online about the specs of my XM13 bindings, but I assume they'll be top notch on a pair of SL skis.....yea/nay?
3) Boots, I want the holy grail, light enough for up, and stiff enough to hold my measly attempts at a carve for the regular ski day, I guess I'll end up maybe doing 20% of my time touring at a max. I was thinking of the Fischer Ranger One in a 130.....
I do really want the one ski for touring/lift skiing as there is a very strong probability that any day I tour, it'll be in resort or to a resort and i'll also want to spend the day bopping around afterwards. I guess the boots are the deciding factor there.....thoughts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Shifts and a 1,850g ski would be fine for the sorts of tours you have in mind. You will be slower than those with lighter setups unless you are very fit. 700m is about my limit on a Shifts+Freeride boot+heavier ski set up.
Freeride boot = fine for what you have in mind, esp as you intend to use them for lift served skiing, but you will quickly want something else if you intend to do more vertical. I have Lange XT Freetours, which are great but are essentially an alpine boot with tech fittings. They are perfect for short tours and skiing from lifts. Anything more = dedicated touring boot unless you are very fit as they are heavy and the walk mode is poor. Re model - see a bootfitter. There's quite a lot of choice so should be something that suits your foot shape.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Don't get too worried about the weight of gear. You will not be in competition with any one.
As you state 600 - 700m of ascent is a nice easy stroll, take time and enjoy the up as much as the down.
Where are you based in CH, I would normally be in Lauterbrunnen (Berner Oberland) plenty of forest roads to skin up over there.
If you take to touring in a big way you can look at lighter gear in the future.
Most of all relax and enjoy.
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| gorilla wrote: |
Shifts and a 1,850g ski would be fine for the sorts of tours you have in mind. You will be slower than those with lighter setups unless you are very fit. 700m is about my limit on a Shifts+Freeride boot+heavier ski set up.
Freeride boot = fine for what you have in mind, esp as you intend to use them for lift served skiing, but you will quickly want something else if you intend to do more vertical. I have Lange XT Freetours, which are great but are essentially an alpine boot with tech fittings. They are perfect for short tours and skiing from lifts. Anything more = dedicated touring boot unless you are very fit as they are heavy and the walk mode is poor. Re model - see a bootfitter. There's quite a lot of choice so should be something that suits your foot shape. |
Cool, ty. I think its unlikely i'll ever do more than that, so something like the XT freetours is similar enough to what i'm after - picked fischer as i'm currently on fishcher progressors and like the somatech stance as that mimics my natural stance anywayy. Ty for the reply
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Rogerdodger wrote: |
Don't get too worried about the weight of gear. You will not be in competition with any one.
As you state 600 - 700m of ascent is a nice easy stroll, take time and enjoy the up as much as the down.
Where are you based in CH, I would normally be in Lauterbrunnen (Berner Oberland) plenty of forest roads to skin up over there.
If you take to touring in a big way you can look at lighter gear in the future.
Most of all relax and enjoy. |
I'm just at the foothills of the Jura, have a forest trail that leads me from my house at 600m to 1550m right outside my door! I'm definitely not in competition with anyone, just everything i read has lads going on about weight.. I do a reasonably amount of road cycling so i'm not unfit, but appreciate this is a different type of fitness completely.
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@coddlesangers, cycling is actually very complimentary to touring. You'll probably have a good idea about how it feels to pace yourself when going uphill
Light, high performance gear is nice but see if you enjoy it on the setup you are talking about before you spank loads of cash
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@coddlesangers,
It's all relative - if the people with whom you will be going ski touring with are super fit and on touring kit lighter than a bag of marsh mellows then you are going to sweat more than Josef Fritzl on an episode of MTV Cribs UK.
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| Arno wrote: |
@coddlesangers, cycling is actually very complimentary to touring. You'll probably have a good idea about how it feels to pace yourself when going uphill
Light, high performance gear is nice but see if you enjoy it on the setup you are talking about before you spank loads of cash |
| DB wrote: |
@coddlesangers,
It's all relative - if the people with whom you will be going ski touring with are super fit and on touring kit lighter than a bag of marsh mellows then you are going to sweat more than Josef Fritzl on an episode of MTV Cribs UK. |
I'll ensure to only tour with my mate who has the heaviest of heavy ski touring kit. Its his constant moans about his regrets over getting a frame binding and mainly alpine boots that has me querying my every decision!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Maybe get a pair of snowshoes
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| DB wrote: |
@coddlesangers,
It's all relative - if the people with whom you will be going ski touring with are super fit and on touring kit lighter than a bag of marsh mellows then you are going to sweat more than Josef Fritzl on an episode of MTV Cribs UK. |
or just sod em and go your own pace 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Maybe get a pair of snowshoes |
Have those already thanks. Very tough to ski in, edge angles all wrong.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Arno wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
@coddlesangers,
It's all relative - if the people with whom you will be going ski touring with are super fit and on touring kit lighter than a bag of marsh mellows then you are going to sweat more than Josef Fritzl on an episode of MTV Cribs UK. |
or just sod em and go your own pace |
think thats going to happen anyway!
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You know it makes sense.
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| coddlesangers wrote: |
| I do really want the one ski for touring/lift skiing as there is a very strong probability that any day I tour, it'll be in resort or to a resort and i'll also want to spend the day bopping around afterwards. I guess the boots are the deciding factor there.....thoughts? |
Often do this with friends, many bring their alpine kit in the car and swap over after the tour.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Arno wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
@coddlesangers,
It's all relative - if the people with whom you will be going ski touring with are super fit and on touring kit lighter than a bag of marsh mellows then you are going to sweat more than Josef Fritzl on an episode of MTV Cribs UK. |
or just sod em and go your own pace |
well if you want to go up the trail by your house and ski down they are sufficient.
Otherwise given you are more piste oriented and only doing small tours get some frame bindings like the Marker F10.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
| Arno wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
@coddlesangers,
It's all relative - if the people with whom you will be going ski touring with are super fit and on touring kit lighter than a bag of marsh mellows then you are going to sweat more than Josef Fritzl on an episode of MTV Cribs UK. |
or just sod em and go your own pace |
well if you want to go up the trail by your house and ski down they are sufficient.
Otherwise given you are more piste oriented and only doing small tours get some frame bindings like the Marker F10. |
Marker F10 v Salomon Shift, you'd say the F10s? More solid downhill in your view or whats the reason? They're both identical weight i think.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@coddlesangers, where r u based and what size are your skis/boots?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| @coddlesangers, where r u based and what size are your skis/boots? |
I'm around Nyon environs, skis are 184s, boots are 28.5s
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The Shift is a waaaay better piste binding than a F10.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| coddlesangers wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| @coddlesangers, where r u based and what size are your skis/boots? |
I'm around Nyon environs, skis are 184s, boots are 28.5s |
I’m nr Vevey and have both shifts and pin bindings you are welcome to try if you want to test the difference
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@spyderjon, nowt wrong with F10’s, mrsmm29 loves em....
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| The Shift is a waaaay better piste binding than a F10. |
I am correct also in thinking the XM13s will be super on a slalom ski?
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| coddlesangers wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| @coddlesangers, where r u based and what size are your skis/boots? |
I'm around Nyon environs, skis are 184s, boots are 28.5s |
I’m nr Vevey and have both shifts and pin bindings you are welcome to try if you want to test the difference |
Thanks Bob - looks like I'll have a chance to get both from my local shop for a trial, I'm due there tomorrow morning to get sorted. Have a bootfitting etc booked.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @spyderjon, nowt wrong with F10’s, mrsmm29 loves em.... |
Nowt wrong with the F10 at all but things have moved on. The Shift is a higher spec in all areas apart from having only two climbing heights v three on the F10.
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@spyderjon, aye I know...shiny new things always a major improvement, I don’t know how she manages with the F10’s... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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the F10 is cheap, couple of hundred euros new, if you are not doing serious touring seems like the ideal solution for someone largely on piste.
The Shift looks like a heavy pin binding, I think Salomon have missed the point somewhat. Almost the same weight as the F10.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Price aside the Shift is lower, 12% lighter, far more torsionally stiff and has a lot more toe elasticity. And when skinning it's a more natural stride and you're not lifting the weight of the heel/frame on every stride. Min ski width of 80mm needed for a Shift so the F10 has a benefit then as it's only circa 60mm wide and it's got the additional climbing height as mentioned above. The Shift has killed off framed bindings which is why retailers are ditching left over stock at below cost and they now have zero resale value.
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I've had a few issues with the Shift but am pretty sure those were user error. It's a significant step on from frame bindings, having spent around 200 days on marker dukes. They ski better and tour better - the stride is more natural and you aren't lifting the heelpiece. They are nowhere near as good as a proper pin binding for touring but for someone doing a few hundred metres up from the lift or doing significant lift served skiing they work nicely.
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You know it makes sense.
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@spyderjon, A good chance to pick up some F10s / 12s or 13s for below cost then I would say.
If the OP wants to buy Shifts then go ahead. If he had said he wanted an excuse to buy Shifts I would have given him that answer but I was thinking about what best suited his program. Personally I wouldn't drop 450 bucks for a downhill binding.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| coddlesangers wrote: |
| Marker F10 v Salomon Shift, you'd say the F10s? More solid downhill in your view or whats the reason? They're both identical weight i think. |
It's not just the overall weight but the weight on your foot (with frame bindings this is much more than with pins as you are lifting the frame with each step)
So shifts look to be better on the way up and down.
I'd take Bob's very kind offer up (just don't let him use your kit he seems to break everything  )
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Poster: A snowHead
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@davidof, or zero if you can find some good quality second hand, there must be loads about if the Shifts are that good.... ......seriously I think the F10's are a brilliant design, that heel lift weight is minute compared with the boot weight one is presumably stood in. Reminds me of the guy I know who buys a carbon bottle cage vs plastic for his £8k roadbike as a weight saving, even though its 4x the price then proceeds to fill the bottle right to the top with water, probably make him feel better but makes little if any difference.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks everyone for the help. Atomic hawk xtd 130, atomic shifts (10), skins all bought and being installed as we speak. Test drive tomorrow!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Good luck with your first outing @coddlesangers, I hope the snow is good and you enjoy the experience. Presumably the views across Lac Leman develop as you gain height.
One final thought, always check the White Risk info, avalanches do not differentiate between open slopes, big mountain faces or "forest tracks". Take care and enjoy!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Rogerdodger wrote: |
Good luck with your first outing @coddlesangers, I hope the snow is good and you enjoy the experience. Presumably the views across Lac Leman develop as you gain height.
One final thought, always check the White Risk info, avalanches do not differentiate between open slopes, big mountain faces or "forest tracks". Take care and enjoy! |
Thanks! Spent a productive 20 mins figuring out how the shifts work, good to go for a wee test in Valle de Joux tomorrow morning.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| davidof wrote: |
the F10 is cheap, couple of hundred euros new, if you are not doing serious touring seems like the ideal solution for someone largely on piste.
The Shift looks like a heavy pin binding, I think Salomon have missed the point somewhat. Almost the same weight as the F10. |
Sorry, but I think it’s you who had missed the point there: the goal with the Shift was exactly to make a heavy duty pin binding that is still vastly more efficient uphill than the F10 etc - IME this makes more difference than the pure weight - yet still skis at least as well on the descent. I’ll happily skin 1500 vert with Shifts (and freeride boots FWIW); I wouldn’t want to do half that on frame bindings as they’re just too much of a slog.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
the F10 is cheap, couple of hundred euros new, if you are not doing serious touring seems like the ideal solution for someone largely on piste.
The Shift looks like a heavy pin binding, I think Salomon have missed the point somewhat. Almost the same weight as the F10. |
Sorry, but I think it’s you who had missed the point there: the goal with the Shift was exactly to make a heavy duty pin binding that is still vastly more efficient uphill than the F10 etc - IME this makes more difference than the pure weight - yet still skis at least as well on the descent. I’ll happily skin 1500 vert with Shifts (and freeride boots FWIW); I wouldn’t want to do half that on frame bindings as they’re just too much of a slog. |
The OP wants to do a few hundred meters vert at most but largely wants to ski on piste. I'm responding to the brief. Leave the ad hominem out please it is very tiring all the time on snowheads.
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Op most certainly does not want to ski mostly on piste ! Vert in the original brief was 600-700 ish and a mixed use 80/20. Can confirm that the setup worked great today, all the gubbins did what they were supposed to do. First spin with them was enjoyable, although I did have to make 1 rookie error, which in my case was trying to ski back down with the skins still on... Rather too worried about getting the bindings right...doh. The shifts are easy to use, obviously I have nothing to compare them to from a touring perspective. Conditions today were an excellent test as we had powder, some hard piste, and it was snowing heavily as I was putting them into and out of walk mode. The atomic hawk boots are fabulous, very very responsive in downhill mode, and feel pretty light to me. The weight of the kit is not a particularly limiting factor I think, certainly didn't stop me from enjoying my tiny starter tour (roughly 2km, 200m up)
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| The Shift has killed off framed bindings which is why retailers are ditching left over stock at below cost and they now have zero resale value. |
Im not sure about that. What about all the skiers with Alpine only boots that just want to do a bit of touring? My daughter has race boots and I would rather spend 200 on a set of frame bindings rather than having to fork out for both new bindings and pin boots..
Slightly annoying that I have a shift based touring setup in Meribel that she can't use because she has the "wrong" boots...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@coddlesangers, As far as boots go I just bought a pair of Lange XT140 Pro with interchangeable grip walk/alpine soles. Haven't skied em yet but feel great and get fab reviews. First pair of boots I have ever had that fit without any work needing to them.
EDIT : just saw you have already bought boots , sorry...
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| skimottaret wrote: |
@coddlesangers, As far as boots go I just bought a pair of Lange XT140 Pro with interchangeable grip walk/alpine soles. Haven't skied em yet but feel great and get fab reviews. First pair of boots I have ever had that fit without any work needing to them.
EDIT : just saw you have already bought boots , sorry... |
No worries, the Lange xt were the other option, went with the atomic as the fit was a teeny bit better.
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FAQ
