 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I've been looking at getting a pair of skis which would be suitable for basi l2 and generally piste skiing.
I liked the look of the head super joy women's ski. Would this be a good option or are there better skis out there?
thanks!! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@lski, there are always better skis out there. Nicer colours, cooler bindings, ... etc.
I don’t think L2 has any particular demands. So the world is your oyster.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just choose something that you like.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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sub 80mm I'd say, a few guys turned up on wider skis for my l2 (a fair few years ago now though) and were told they wouldn't get enough performance out of them for the shorts and longs...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@kitenski, is that not more of a comment on the skier rather than the skis?
Although I’d imagine one would want a piste oriented ski, so, fair comment.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Dynastar Speed Zone range |
This is a good option. I switched from Head (Titan and iSL) to the Speed Zones (16 and 14, both with the upgraded plates - Jon will be able to advise on current models) and I've been very happy on them. I felt I was finding the limits of the Titans in longs (and I believe the Curren models are a bit softer in the tips than the version that I have), but the Dynastars are definitely more stable when you really push the performance.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For BASI L1 and L2, any ski that slides, preferably an identical pair. IF the skis are an issue at this level you are chasing the wrong profession.
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Head changed the PRD rail system on the Supershape range a few years ago and although they look the same they have a huge 8mm of delta and their design means that they can't be shimmed to a proper/correct angle and this has proved a big problem for many people.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@spyderjon, Big reason we at Inside Out Skiing switched from Head to Dynastar. Head do great skis but the binding systems let down the package imo.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Idris, titter
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Idris, titter |
My point is a serious one. Instructor courses are supposed to about teaching skiing. NOT learning to ski. If you are considering teaching (regardless of BASI/NZ/PSIA?French system), learn to ski first. Take a course with someone who will push your skiing level, then step back a notch (or preferably 2 or more) and learn how to teach the basics.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Idris wrote: |
| For BASI L1 and L2, any ski that slides, preferably an identical pair. IF the skis are an issue at this level you are chasing the wrong profession. |
When I was looking at some of the instruction videos on bend ze knees it occurred to me that surely most people attending those course are not seriously thinking about it as a profession - they are just having a ski clinic to improve their skiing?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Idris wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| @Idris, titter |
My point is a serious one. Instructor courses are supposed to about teaching skiing. NOT learning to ski. If you are considering teaching (regardless of BASI/NZ/PSIA?French system), learn to ski first. Take a course with someone who will push your skiing level, then step back a notch (or preferably 2 or more) and learn how to teach the basics. |
BASI L2 has a big emphasis on improving your skiing
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Poster: A snowHead
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Idris wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| @Idris, titter |
My point is a serious one. Instructor courses are supposed to about teaching skiing. NOT learning to ski. If you are considering teaching (regardless of BASI/NZ/PSIA?French system), learn to ski first. Take a course with someone who will push your skiing level, then step back a notch (or preferably 2 or more) and learn how to teach the basics. |
BASI L2 has a big emphasis on improving your skiing |
I think we appreciate that - just seems a bit weird. A bit like taking someone with good holiday French and sending them on a course to be a French teacher. I mean you just wouldn't would you?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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if you have already done basi one you will be a basi member so i would suggest atomic or salomon as you get a good deal on them etc..... atomic will be about 40% off
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It feels like BASI have actively encouraged a state of affairs where their lower level courses are technical development for leisure skiers rather than a career path. Nothing wrong with that (and indeed the teaching skills of being able to respond to different problems are a technical skill in themsleves) but it's an odd system. Intuitively it also feels to the layperson that by the time someone is skilled enough to be contemplating L2 they ought to have a fair idea of what skis they should think about using rather than being prescribed a pair. I also note that from observation of instructor clinics in US and Canada they are usually on much wider skis than BASI recommend but then they usually are skiing all mountain (plus average Euro conditions can often be somewhat firmer).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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they like piste performance skis but i guy i did L2 with was on a pair of what i would call all mountain skis but as long as he was performing the right movements in the right way that was fine, i would be able to do any of the exercises at that level on any ski but the shape of the ski would dictate the performance ie shorter ski would give shorter turns etc
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@lski, regarding the ski you mention - depends how good you are and what your weak areas are, But generally yes the ski you mention should be ok for the job, piste orientated, without being full on race girders, so you can demonstrate properly, develop your performance through the course and give you the best chance of passing. The video @kitenski, posted gives you an idea of the general specs you should be looking at.
@jedster, how good do you need to be to start the ski instructor journey? Genuine question not trying to be antagonistic.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| sledger wrote: |
| ... ... how good do you need to be to start the ski instructor journey? Genuine question not trying to be antagonistic. |
Perhaps one ought to be able to actually ski?
I mean, if "instructor lessons" are what people using to learn to ski, why are their customers not doing the same thing?
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| sledger wrote: |
| @jedster, how good do you need to be to start the ski instructor journey? Genuine question not trying to be antagonistic. |
Greg, who has posted videos in this thread, was a good skier before he started on BASI. The issue is that you can be a good all mountain skier but not able to demonstrate the various moves BASI requires from you to pass the various levels of course. I don't know what the absolute lowest standard you'd need to be to pass L1 but possibly someone with single figure weeks of skiing with instruction would be able to pass.
With the French system, because there is an entrance exam, you have to be a pretty fast racer. Faster than most holiday skiers can ski a slalom course but BASI have had fast racers turn up to do L4 (having had technical exceptions) and they've had to go back and do L3 because they were not up to the standard.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| davidof wrote: |
| sledger wrote: |
| @jedster, how good do you need to be to start the ski instructor journey? Genuine question not trying to be antagonistic. |
Greg, who has posted videos in this thread, was a good skier before he started on BASI. The issue is that you can be a good all mountain skier but not able to demonstrate the various moves BASI requires from you to pass the various levels of course. I don't know what the absolute lowest standard you'd need to be to pass L1 but possibly someone with single figure weeks of skiing with instruction would be able to pass.
With the French system, because there is an entrance exam, you have to be a pretty fast racer. Faster than most holiday skiers can ski a slalom course but BASI have had fast racers turn up to do L4 (having had technical exceptions) and they've had to go back and do L3 because they were not up to the standard. |
That is very kind of you, but the more I got into it the less I realised I knew and my eyes were opened too much, much better skiers.
I think a newer skier who had been "taught" the BASI way may have a better chance of passing earlier on as less "bad" habits too unlearn. People that failed my L1 were younger kids who were good skiers, but like you said couldn't do the movement patterns required and couldn't make the changes necessary. A classic case was young kids who couldn't ski without their legs clamped together, and thus couldn't use the edges effectively. Or others failed the L2 on bumps, and many on not being able to show what is needed for shorts, which in BASI speak is:
Piste Short
Perform grippy, (from the fall line), round, symmetrical, short turns in various corridors on a blue or easy red piste.
Show the ability to maintain a constant speed.
Use effective posture and balance.
full requirements for L2 are here
https://www.basi.org.uk/BASI/Courses/Alpine/Alpine_level_2/Alpine_level_2.aspx?WebsiteKey=211cffca-c436-4a06-844e-527af5a19586&hkey=12536def-ea70-4d52-9262-42597bbd68b4&Alpine_Level_2_Course=3#Alpine_Level_2_Course
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@lski, Mrs G7 (who is BASI L2 qualified) absolutely loves Head Total Joy skis. They do most things pretty well.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thank you everyone for your ski suggestions!! I think I may go for a different ski given your advice...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| GeorgeVII wrote: |
| @lski, Mrs G7 (who is BASI L2 qualified) absolutely loves Head Total Joy skis. They do most things pretty well. |
Interesting
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| kitenski wrote: |
That is very kind of you, but the more I got into it the less I realised I knew and my eyes were opened too much, much better skiers. |
ah yes, Diane Kruger theory, AKA Ignorance is bliss. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Dynastar Speed Zone range |
^^^ This. I did mine on Speedzone 14 (which is same ski as the 12, different binding).
| kitenski wrote: |
| a few guys turned up on wider skis for my l2 (a fair few years ago now though) and were told they wouldn't get enough performance out of them for the shorts and longs... |
One guy in our group turned up on some wide touring skis, which raised a few eyebrows until we saw him ski and realised he was going to ski the rest of us off the mountain, irrespective of what planks he was on. He passed, easily, but did get the wee wee ripped out of his oil tanker skis for the full two weeks. I'd say he's probably an exception though (and his post course feedback was, I think, to get some different equipment for L3)
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
It feels like BASI have actively encouraged a state of affairs where their lower level courses are technical development for leisure skiers rather than a career path. Nothing wrong with that (and indeed the teaching skills of being able to respond to different problems are a technical skill in themsleves) but it's an odd system. |
Hmmm, I take your point, it's a bit odd if you look at the Alpine nations, but I think it's a symptom of the British Market where there is a demand for L1 and L2 instructors working part time mostly evenings and weekends on dry slopes and domes, and indeed the school trips market (interski etc.). Whilst there certainly are plenty of people who do BASI courses just to improve their skiing there is also a suprising number who started out on that path and then find they love teaching whilst doing the shadowing hours. One guy on my L2 swore he was never going to actually teach. I bumped into him the following season when he was in the middle of 6 weeks teaching for Interski, becasue he found he loved it whilst shadowing. So the system may be odd, but it serves the UK instructor market well.
Some gnarly old skiers (not thinking of anyone in particular...) get grumpy about the technical ablities of L1 instructors, but tend to forget that at the beginner level it's arguably more important to have an instructor who is enthusiastic and communicates well their love for the sport. Many part time L1/L2 BASI/IASI instructors are excellent at that (perhaps precisely because they are not doing it day in day out).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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This may not be directly relevant, but a member of my family who teaches in Austria (Austrian qualification, not BASI) swears by the Nordica Dobermann Spitfire Pro as 'perfect for instructing'. Having said that, in his training, he was made to to ski short turns on GS race skis at one stage to make the point about technique, etc, not equipment... though I suspect that if you can make it easier on yourself then do so!
There are some pretty experienced people re BASI on here, who will give good advice.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| sledger wrote: |
@jedster, how good do you need to be to start the ski instructor journey? Genuine question not trying to be antagonistic. |
I suppose it part depends on age and really what your aspiration is.
I guess I was reacting to the the idea of seriously pursuing instructing as a profession or career when I'm really with Idris - you'd want people to be pretty good skiers rather than made to look shabby by the average 12 year old who lives in the Alps and is a member of the local ski club.
But I totally get the idea that people may be aiming for a different role, more like helping out with the kids football team so doing a few FA coaching courses. But I wouldn't see that as a career.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jedster wrote: |
I guess I was reacting to the the idea of seriously pursuing instructing as a profession or career when I'm really with Idris - you'd want people to be pretty good skiers rather than made to look shabby by the average 12 year old who lives in the Alps and is a member of the local ski club.
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and a lot of those kids can pass the TT and ET when they reach adulthood without it turning into a k-drama.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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What's Ketamine got to do with it?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| sledger wrote: |
And getting back to skis...The standard response of its only BASI 2 if you are half decent you can turn up and pass on an old set of touring skis or twin tips or whatever is true but missing the point somewhat of using the course to improve all aspects of your skiing and teaching. |
Yes. Turning up on an old pair of clunker skis may indicate that you don't take the whole thing very seriously. I would have thought the kind of typical piste skis most clients would be using would be suitable though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just an ability to ski any on piste ski would do.
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@lski, I’ve a pair of head super joy’s.
I ski them, enjoy them, can’t fault them and wish I’d bought a pair earlier in the season.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I remember when the kids were first learning, they had a lovely Dutch girl teaching their group in Hinterglemm. We caught up with them one day by chance and followed for a bit. The instructor got to a bumpy and somewhat slushy bit and promptly fell over. Later, after we had collected them, I asked if she had offered to buy them all chocolate because she fell over. They replied that she fell over all the time and it didn't matter anyway because her rucksack was stuffed full of gummy bears which she liberally dished out throughout the lesson!
Is it still a thing that instructors buy chocs for the kids or a round of drinks if they fall over?
Edit: Get something piste orientated and fairly stiff when choosing a ski for instructing. Sorry for barging into your thread!
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| Klamm Franzer wrote: |
| Is it still a thing that instructors buy chocs for the kids or a round of drinks if they fall over? |
Yup that is the unofficial rule. IMO it should be mandatory and in the BASI manual 
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FAQ
although I accept that most of the Italian instructors (full-time) will ski to a higher level.
