 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, I wanted to understand the below announcement from swiss authorities. It says “ Ski areas should be allowed to open for domestic tourism”. It looks like foreigners won be allowed? However there are no measures to avoid foreigners accessing the resorts. It is not very clear in my view.
I have a trip booked for the next week, so now i am not sure if i will be able to go ahead or should cancel.
Any thoughts pls?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I saw the same document - remember it is intended mainly for a domestic Swiss audience. So I took it to mean "Swiss citizens -domestic tourism is open, with certain conditions" - which it then goes on to list.
It doesn't say that foreigners are not allowed to ski.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Here is the press release:
https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/documentation/media-releases.msg-id-81477.html
Ski areas can open if case numbers are falling
Ski areas should be allowed to open for domestic tourism. Where the epidemiological situation is critical, measures must first be taken to allow it to improve. From 22 December, ski areas will require a permit from the cantonal authorities in order to operate. The prerequisite is that the epidemiological situation so allows, and that hospitals, contact tracing services and testing sites have sufficient capacity. Ski resort operators must also put in place strict precautionary measure plans that reflect the national standardised requirements. The aim is to prevent the virus from spreading in tourist destinations.
Ski areas themselves are not subject to capacity restrictions. However, from 9 December only two thirds of maximum capacity will be permitted in all closed forms of transport, such as trains, gondolas and cablecars. This applies to seating and standing room.
Face coverings must be worn when queuing for and travelling on all forms of transport, including drag- and chairlifts, and distance must be maintained when queuing. Guests at restaurants in ski areas will only be allowed inside the premises if there is a table available. The current rules continue to apply to indoor and outdoor areas: customers must be seated with no more than four people per table, with the exception of parents and their children.
The cantons have a duty to monitor compliance. If significant problems arise, ski resort operators will be issued with a warning. If the situation is not rectified, the permit must be withdrawn. The cantons must also provide a report to the federal authorities on the number of checks carried out, the number of warnings issued and permits withdrawn, as well as on hospital capacity.
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Oh ffs, it's admin
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Looks like they don't want non-Swiss residents to me.
| Quote: |
Health Minister Alain Berset said the decision to keep Swiss resorts open was designed "above all for people living in Switzerland...not beyond that".
"We don't want people coming from surrounding countries that are closed off and then for people to say that we are taking advantage of this situation," he said. "That would be very unpleasant for everyone - for Switzerland and the resorts concerned." |
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They have to say that because France, Germany and Italy have asked them to shut everything. If they really wanted to restrict it they could check residency/nationality, but they’re not doing that, and good for them.
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| hold_my_biere wrote: |
| They have to say that because France, Germany and Italy have asked them to shut everything. If they really wanted to restrict it they could check residency/nationality, but they’re not doing that, and good for them. |
^^^ this. In reality there are no restrictions based on nationality.
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Totally agree on the points above - the mechanism to exclude non Swiss from skiing is quarantine and that does not apply to the U.K.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks, it is indeed ambiguous regarding foreigners.
In Austria for example you have to quarantine and it looks like the hotels are not allowed to open as well. So ski is pretty much blocked by the restrictions imposed.
However this is not the case in Switzerland yet. Since I have a trip to Saas Fee booked for next week I even contacted the resort to enquire about tickets and they said they selling ticket to foreigners without restrictions.
Things may change but it looks like it is business as usual with a controlled number of people using the lifts, etc.
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Flights booked for next week but holding my nerve on everything else....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If anything, the Swiss are actively attracting foreigners to visit. No quarantine for UK arrivals. No special documentation.
Good sources for official status information are the Swiss Office of Public Health SOPH and the Swiss Embassy in the UK Switzerland & the UK page.
All the Verbier publicity I've seen, for example, seems to be pretty welcoming.
"Verbier is ready to welcome you! The Lac des Vaux and Attelas-Ruinettes ski lifts are open this weekend (mask and safety measures are mandatory). Except for the restaurants (take-away allowed), shops and services of the destination are open thanks to the respect of the FOPH‘S measures and of the Clean & Safe program. This winter, lifts as well as shops and services will also be open in accordance with the health measures in effect during your stay."
and
"Rest assured, the whole resort complies with all the health guidelines to guarantee you a stay that’s as safe and comfortable as can be − see our commitments below. But we also need your help in continuing to welcome visitors to Verbier! That’s why this page also aims to provide you with helpful advice and ideas, so you have the best possible stay and return home from here with some unforgettable memories − in complete safety. Welcome back to Verbier!"
But of course, while they're obviously loath to do it, if cases and especially hospital numbers become problematic, I daresay they'll have no choice but to reintroduce restrictions, even if the Cantons resist them due to the economic impact. My only observation is that in CH, the Cantons are much more powerful than the UK's regions and cities.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Switzerland will comply with the EU. As in 99% of the time
It will be presented the other way around, but they will.
Britain will be the same.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
Switzerland will comply with the EU. As in 99% of the time
It will be presented the other way around, but they will.
Britain will be the same. |
I think the odds are more like 20% that the Swiss will close their resorts and that if they do, it won't be to 'comply with the EU' (whatever that means), it'll be because the epidemiological conditions dictate they must. I can see the French Government wanting consistency on any restrictive measures between them and Switzerland, but my view is that it'll come down to a combination of factors as to whether it can force Switzerland to completely close down an industry that's so vital to its economy. I'm not sure those countries in the EU that do not border Switzerland will have much interest in expending any political capital on the issue of Swiss ski resort closure.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sat 5-12-20 17:10; edited 2 times in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Langerzug wrote: |
Switzerland will comply with the EU. As in 99% of the time
It will be presented the other way around, but they will.
Britain will be the same. |
You sound very certain for someone who was wrong about the same thing in Austria only a week or so ago.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@clarky999, wrong?
That’s a matter of perception. Austria is closed for non Austrians. The bulk of Christmas-business, to put it mildly...
Apart from that, it’s not yet Christmas. Check the statement at Lech’s homepage. Definitely not sure they’ll open the lifts.
CH will be the same
Corona numbers in NL are on the rise again...we are two weeks ahead of Austria....also reading about capacity-issues in CH-hospitals...
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 5-12-20 17:50; edited 3 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Our ski area (Jungfrau) opened today. It wasn’t busy (probably owing to the gloomy weather), and there were no problems with distancing etc. Christmas is going to be another matter entirely.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Langerzug wrote: |
@clarky999, wrong?
That’s a matter of perception. For the vast majority in Europe, Austria is closed.
Apart from that, it’s not yet Christmas. Check the statement at Lech’s homepage. Definitely not sure they’ll open the lifts.
CH will be the same
Corona numbers in NL are on the rise again...we are two weeks ahead of Austria....also reading about capacity-issues in CH-hospitals... |
So you're backtracking on the 'comply with the EU' line now? And saying that the reasons for closure will be the epidemiology and healthcare capacity? Inside Switzerland. Not 'the EU'?
In which case, yes, of course, the Swiss will be concerned that cases can't rise above a certain level and hospital demand can't become excessive. But that's nothing to do with 'the EU' imposing demands with which Switzerland must 'comply'.
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@LaForet, yes, but that’s the (European) reality that the Swiss first were denying (and actually saying that they would not bow to EU-pressure) and now they are using.
Exactly as I said.
The Swiss can’t hide behind their mountains for corona, quite simple.
Been reading about a looming ‘SwIschgl’ coming Christmas.
They don’t want that.
And the Swiss need to stay friends with Macron and Merkel. And both were not amused. Strikingly undiplomatic so.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
@clarky999, wrong?
That’s a matter of perception. Austria is closed for non Austrians. The bulk of Christmas-business, to put it mildly... |
Yep, wrong, and pretty rude about it too. You said Austrian won't open lifts at Christmas, especially not just for locals; the reality is that Austria will open lifts (and has an obligation to do so), especially for the locals.
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@clarky999,
Rude? Have another look at Merkels words for the Austrians. Or Conte’s words.
It was Austria’s approach, and still the Swiss approach that is considered rude on a European level. (And more and more within Switzerland too)
There is a moral aspect to this which many appear to miss...
And, again, keep an eye on Lech. Mr. Manhart , ‘the schneepapst’ is not very eager to open the lifts.
St.Anton will open less than 50%.
Others might follow.
It’s not Christmas yet.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 5-12-20 20:17; edited 2 times in total
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Good to see Switzerland standing firm against the oppressive, bullying EU controlfreaks.
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@Langerzug, yep, rude:
| Langerzug wrote: |
| @queenie pretty please, sorry, but can only repeat: you are naive. really. |
Personally I'm not that fussed what's going on in Lech, however:
"Neben den klassischen Skigebieten, die vor allem bei Einheimischen beliebt sind, wollen auch die großen Skigebiete wie St. Anton am Arlberg aufsperren, sagte Mario Stedile-Foradori, Vorstand der Arlberger Bergbahnen. Es würden allerdings nicht alle Lifte und Pisten zur Verfügung stehen. „Das Angebot liegt zwischen 30 und 50 Prozent“, so Stedile-Foradori."
Re rudeness on a European level, whether Austrians ski or not in their mountains has nothing to do with other countries, who should worry more about what their own citizens are doing. Tbh it sounds more like jealousy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@clarky999, it’s not about Lech per sé, but as an example of what might come, of whats brewing.
Thinking it’s jealousy....
Well, what to say to that. Maybe just better say nothing.
But Merkel was not angry because she was jealous....
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@Langerzug, tell me, is public transport open in NL? Across the EU? Ski lifts are considered public transport. What's more, from a Covid perspective, they are probably safer than other forms of public transport as the journeys are generally shorter and it's far easier to keep them ventilated.
Ischgl has been made into some sort of scapegoat for the first wave Covid outbreak in the spring. But there the virus spread in bars, lots of people shouting/singing for prolonged periods in close proximity in unventilated indoor spaces. Even if that was the sole cause of the first wave (which of course it wasn't), it has nothing to do with the second wave which has mostly spread in homes, offices and places of work.
So whatever power trip Merkel is on during the dying days of her tenure, she's lost this one. Closing ski lifts would only make sense if the whole of Europe was also going to stop all trains, buses, taxis, planes. Otherwise it's just total nonsense.
Call me naive if you want. I know what I'll be doing this Christmas. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Noticed this post on a site called Lockdown Sceptics:
"I’m working in the Swiss canton of Valais for the winter season. I was initially going to be working in France but Macron decided on another full lockdown so that was off, especially as it seems the ski season opening has been pushed back until late January now. The Swiss have been very reluctant to have a lockdown again and at the national (federal) level restrictions are light: masks, limits on numbers gathering and so on. Individual cantons can set their own rules within reason, much like individual states in Germany or the USA. My canton (Valais) has decided to shut restaurants and bars but all shops etc. are open and the lifts are working on weekends. Some of the rules are just stupid, such as wearing a mask on an open ski lift, but as across most of Europe many of the decisions are political and not medical, to play the game whilst ignoring it in private.
"The Swiss in the mountains are keen to push ahead again and in about a week the restaurants and bars should be open for business and they are keen to hoover up tourists from Germany, Italy and especially France who are now threatening to stop travellers at the border. The government here knows that the ski season is worth billions and without foreigners from outside Europe and likely no Brits either they need to make all their money from what they can. Pootling around the resort is a little dull but a lot of places aren’t too bothered about masks either so it feels much more normal. There has been a half-hearted effort at putting up ‘two metres’ signs and similar but they are cheerfully ignored. After months of bullying and shouting from the UK authorities it feels great to be left alone.
"The big moment will be this weekend when all the lifts really start moving as the snow has arrived, all the way down to the valley with more to come. There have been murmurings at federal level about limiting lift capacity and so on but this seems more to settle nerves. If we can get through December then I see no reason why the Swiss won’t just plough on and be done with it. The trees are coated in snow, the mountains look more chocolate-boxy than ever and hopefully by the time I go home some semblance of sanity will have returned."
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
Thinking it’s jealousy....
Well, what to say to that. Maybe just better say nothing.
But Merkel was not angry because she was jealous.... |
I didn't say that Merkel is the jealous one. The fact is, everyone knows that the skiing part of skiing is very low risk regarding corona; it's the travel and hotels etc that are the issue, but that doesn't apply to locals (whether Austrian or Swiss) skiing at home. Merkel et al are worried about those of their citizens who want to ski but can't do so without the travel etc. Sorry, but the fact that people in Berlin or Paris or Amsterdam can't ski without the extra risk that travelling and staying in a hotel entails (and the - very understandable - concern of then coming home infected) is no good reason to try to forbid it for all those for whom skiing is one of the safest and healthiest ways they can exercise at home outdoors in winter*. It would be just as ridiculous if Kurz tried to tell Holland and Italy to ban road cycling so Austrian cyclists don't feel sad that they're missing out on dry/non-icy roads.
*Seriously that's genuinely an issue. Around 5 people died in hiking accidents here just last week due to slipping on icy trails - it's just not a risk most people are used to dealing with because normally almost no-one is still hiking for sport at the end of November.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 6-12-20 9:09; edited 1 time in total
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| Langerzug wrote: |
| @LaForet, yes, but that’s the (European) reality that the Swiss first were denying (and actually saying that they would not bow to EU-pressure) and now they are using. Exactly as I said. The Swiss can’t hide behind their mountains for corona, quite simple. Been reading about a looming ‘SwIschgl’ coming Christmas. They don’t want that. And the Swiss need to stay friends with Macron and Merkel. And both were not amused. Strikingly undiplomatic so. |
I understand there's a natural tension between Switzerland and France, Italy, and Germany.
But there are 24 other EU countries that have no beef with Switzerland.
This isn't an 'EU'-wide issue, is all I'm saying.
And as far as the Valais authorities go, nothing I've seen reads as backtracking on a stated policy to open for the season.
And that in the face of losing massive winter revenues and job losses from cancelling the season, the Federal Authorities are more likely to bow to Cantonal lobbying, rather than Franco-German pressure.
The exception being if epidemiological metrics clearly dictate that there's no other course of action but to close.
I can certainly see the French President's conundrum. If he keeps French Alpine resorts shut, but starts to lift travel restrictions inside France (as I'm sure he's desperate to do) then loads of French skiers will just drive into Switzerland, have loads of fun, get the virus, and bring it back. Spending their euros in Verbier instead of Chamonix and expecting the French taxpayer to foot the bill for the healthcare fallout. If he keeps things shut down, the economic impact is months of unnecessary loss to the economy. And if he goes laissez-faire and opens everything up, he'll have instigated a Third Wave. A lose-lose-lose situation.
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You know it makes sense.
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| LaForet wrote: |
| Langerzug wrote: |
| @LaForet, yes, but that’s the (European) reality that the Swiss first were denying (and actually saying that they would not bow to EU-pressure) and now they are using. Exactly as I said. The Swiss can’t hide behind their mountains for corona, quite simple. Been reading about a looming ‘SwIschgl’ coming Christmas. They don’t want that. And the Swiss need to stay friends with Macron and Merkel. And both were not amused. Strikingly undiplomatic so. |
I understand there's a natural tension between Switzerland and France, Italy, and Germany.
But there are 24 other EU countries that have no beef with Switzerland.
This isn't an 'EU'-wide issue, is all I'm saying.
And as far as the Valais authorities go, nothing I've seen reads as backtracking on a stated policy to open for the season.
And that in the face of losing massive winter revenues and job losses from cancelling the season, the Federal Authorities are more likely to bow to Cantonal lobbying, rather than Franco-German pressure.
The exception being if epidemiological metrics clearly dictate that there's no other course of action but to close.
I can certainly see the French President's conundrum. If he keeps French Alpine resorts shut, but starts to lift travel restrictions inside France (as I'm sure he's desperate to do) then loads of French skiers will just drive into Switzerland, have loads of fun, get the virus, and bring it back. Spending their euros in Verbier instead of Chamonix and expecting the French taxpayer to foot the bill for the healthcare fallout. If he keeps things shut down, the economic impact is months of unnecessary loss to the economy. And if he goes laissez-faire and opens everything up, he'll have instigated a Third Wave. A lose-lose-lose situation. |
Good points, just another example of EU bullying.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Dravot, there's no EU bullying. The EU have clearly stated that lockdown matters and whether to open ski lifts, hotels, etc. remain decisions for individual member countries based on infection levels.
Bullying from France/Germany/Italy maybe, but fortunately Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Norway, Slovenia, etc. are not listening much.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
@Dravot, there's no EU bullying. The EU have clearly stated that lockdown matters and whether to open ski lifts, hotels, etc. remain decisions for individual member countries based on infection levels.
Bullying from France/Germany/Italy maybe, but fortunately Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Norway, Slovenia, etc. are not listening much. |
Germany, France, Italy contribute more (€€€€) to the EU than the other 24 states put together and are the economic and political engine of the EU. The views of Malta, Cyprus, Luxembourg etc are irrelevant...they won't bite the hands that feed them. Austria, Sweden, Slovenia risk being put on the diplomatic naughty step and will be punished directly or indirectly.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Dravot, nonsense.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@queenie pretty please, if you think that the EU has no history of bullying Switzerland then I suggest you do a little digging into the the "renegotiation" of their mutual trade agreement and flow of immigrants during the last year or so.
It resulted in the EU getting in a strop and suddenly de-recognising Swiss Stock Market listings, which then caused a tit-for-tat derecognition of EU ones by the Swiss.
I had lots and lots of Swiss complimenting the UK on Brexit at the time and all saying "we are in this together"
I would guarantee that the same conversations will be starting again on ski lifts 
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Trying to figure out if we could ski in Switzerland over Christmas, but from the government advice it looks like we’d have to isolate for 14 days on return as Switzerland isn’t on the travel corridor list. Is that correct? So much info flying around at the moment, it’s hard to make sense of it it all!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Central Switzerland resorts closed due to too much snow, not Covid!
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@rungsp, I repeat, the EU has stated that it is not involved in decisions regarding opening of ski lifts or any matters relating to lockdowns. There is some bullying for sure from the likes of Merkel, Comte and Macron. But they are not the EU, they are leaders of individual member states.
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@queenie pretty please, fair comment..I guess the difference is somewhat blurred at times
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Whatever pressure was applied, it seems to have been ignored as Switzerland’s ski resorts are open to anyone who can get here. Judging by the number plates in the car park yesterday that includes Germans, French and Italians among others!
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FAQ
