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How might the pandemic change skiing in the long term??

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
From the perspective of someone with many friends trying to make a living from running chalets (catered or otherwise), I really hope there will be a long-term effect on the seasonal rents chalet owners can charge. The supply of suitable chalets has always been outstripped by demand, and in recent years the rents have escalated to the point where hard working young renter/operator couples just cannot stay in the game.

Imminent Brexit and secondment changes alone have not been able to break the cartel (just squeeze profits); but the Covid related dearth of brit clients this season, combined with the absence of gullible new arrivals with more money than sense, has left the owners desperate. They have been forced to cut rates, offer sale-or-return deals by the month or week, allow stage-payments (rather than 100% up front) and short-term contracts etc. to try to generate at least some income. Any residual easing of rates will be more down to a lack of new operators due to Brexit, but it has taken the Covid crunch to get the ball rolling. Toofy Grin
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Bigtipper wrote:

Quote:

..savings are up by as much as 30% per household in the UK. Presumably those who work for the Government Sector or those not furloughed. Which would suggest that a lot of people may have an excess of cash to spend in the next couple of years. Hopefully a fair few will come skiing.



The public sector comprises more than 5 million jobs in the UK and it is probably true - in the short term at least - that these workers will have done comparatively well to those furloughed, more so if 100% of their salary >£2,500. There remains, however, something quite attractive, and difficult to attach a value to, about 9 months' 'holiday' on 80% of salary.




When you continue to pay people money, but prevent them from consuming anything other than essentials, then this is the likely effect..


I keep hearing about all the money saving but I'm about a grand down on the year (spent 1K more than I earnt). My consumption is pretty much essentials though: heat, light, water, food etc.

I heard it was pensioners who were saving as they can't go on cruises and the 1%ers
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Whitegold, Love that - most positive outlook I've read in ages . . .as I'll be reaching my half century in '21 I'm totally up for some roaring 20's style regression - bring it on!
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@philwig, so you're really Al Gore!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Unfortunately there are going to be major impacts to the skiing industry and UK skiers due to covid 19. The most upsetting for the long term future I will list below.

Young skiers 12-30


Impacted disproportionately last year as they tend to be end of season skiers, festivals cancelled, etc.
Uni trips cancelled
School trips in constant decline, far fewer trips expected from comprehensives after covid
Young people have been financially hit the hardest, unsecured debt is ballooning, credit card buy now pay later culture and job losses impacting this demographic.
Lack of budget accommodation for the next two years
Dry ski slopes and snow domes closed, less encouragement to take up the sport
Higher taxes will come as lower earner skiers get the chance to travel putting downward pressure on disposable income.
Complete failure of snow organisations to support all are young athletes unable to train. These people encourage participants to join the sport.
Current price inflation of ski holiday 2021 already at 15%. The later the resorts open this year the higher this will rise
Significant drop in UK seasonaires for multiple reasons included the end of budget mid market catered chalet holidays.
Incesses in lift pass prices and lack of deals of offer for big groups of young people.
If there is not a good start to next season some low lying ski resorts could go bankrupt.

Not all of the above you may agree with but skiing numbers are fast entering golf like decline in the young there are many ways this can be reversed but I don't think there is impetus from UK or EU organization to do this.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@alexwriggler, fwiw golf exploded in the US this summer. My take on all this is that most things got whacked hard, and they will snap back to nearly the same as it was before, but with some permanent adjustments. For example, a stupid custom we have over here is to go to work when you are sick; otherwise you are lazy or weak. I'm hopeful we will kiss that one goodbye entirely. I think things like office space will become popular again, but at reduced levels since we've proven that more folks can work from home than we thought. The weak adults have now died; the weak businesses and industries will also be culled, and some will be ski areas. The restaurants I love....it could be argued there were too many. That part is really just beginning.

Keep in mind that there are silver linings in strange places. Many small ski areas actually made more money last season by closing early; in late season they usually lose money running the lifts almost solely for season passholders who bring no additional revenue.

For many, it will come down to how smart their banker is.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Whitegold wrote:
philwig wrote:
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
... 9-11 was not pre-intrrnet. I remember watching it on my computer on the internet.
<coughs> I'd been running a fair bit of it for a decade by then.



Global fixedline and mobile Internet adoption was a tiny 9% in 2001.

Speeds were on dialup and slow.

Average speeds today are 12 times faster.

Global Internet adoption is now around 60%.

Today is cheaper, deeper, faster.

2001 vs. 2021 = night and day


I had broadband installed in 1995
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Mr.Egg wrote:
Whitegold wrote:
philwig wrote:
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
... 9-11 was not pre-intrrnet. I remember watching it on my computer on the internet.
<coughs> I'd been running a fair bit of it for a decade by then.



Global fixedline and mobile Internet adoption was a tiny 9% in 2001.

Speeds were on dialup and slow.

Average speeds today are 12 times faster.

Global Internet adoption is now around 60%.

Today is cheaper, deeper, faster.

2001 vs. 2021 = night and day


I had broadband installed in 1995

Commercial home broadband started in the UK in 2000 following ADSL trials which started in 1998 so how did you manage that?
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
tarrantd wrote:

Commercial home broadband started in the UK in 2000 following ADSL trials which started in 1998 so how did you manage that?


Maybe cable? or a leased line, or ISDN was it (which was 64 or 128k).

I certainly had cable at the end of the 90s.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:

The weak adults have now died

Balderdash, young man.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Cable internet was started in 2000 by NTL in the UK . ISDN in the form of BT highway was I think towards the end 1997.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
davidof wrote:
tarrantd wrote:

Commercial home broadband started in the UK in 2000 following ADSL trials which started in 1998 so how did you manage that?


Maybe cable? or a leased line, or ISDN was it (which was 64 or 128k).

I certainly had cable at the end of the 90s.

"The internet" used to be very bandwidth conscious. Email don't have multiple megabytes of photos embedded.

I distinctly remember setting up internet access for my Mom in 2001. 2 weeks before 9/11. On the last day before I moved away from New York City. Then on 9/11, I couldn't get through on the phone to her. So sent an email instead. Not sure if she could get to it either. Imagine my pleasant surprise when I received a reply within a couple minutes!
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
A number of businesses have already been milking Covid as an excuse to pare back service. I took a first class train - there was no trolley service due to covid, but the ticket dude was still able to walk up & down the train, handling tickets. Likewise, a number of airlines have reduced hot meal / booze on business class to a packed-lunch with no drinks.

Whilst I acknowledge these are all a bit #firstworldproblems I predict a wider trend where cuts in service will be taken but we'll be glad to get back to normal so will tolerate it.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
abc wrote:
davidof wrote:
tarrantd wrote:

Commercial home broadband started in the UK in 2000 following ADSL trials which started in 1998 so how did you manage that?


Maybe cable? or a leased line, or ISDN was it (which was 64 or 128k).

I certainly had cable at the end of the 90s.

"The internet" used to be very bandwidth conscious. Email don't have multiple megabytes of photos embedded.

I distinctly remember setting up internet access for my Mom in 2001. 2 weeks before 9/11. On the last day before I moved away from New York City. Then on 9/11, I couldn't get through on the phone to her. So sent an email instead. Not sure if she could get to it either. Imagine my pleasant surprise when I received a reply within a couple minutes!


I was in NYC in Oct 2001 - there was definitely super fast broadband there, like nothing I'd seen in the UK - but I also had AOL broadband in UK at the time, it just wasn't as good.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Perhaps one change may relate to the catchment for winter holidays: there's some evidence that many more people in Alpine areas holidayed locally this year, as opposed to going abroad to warmer climes. Coverage I've read includes quotes about it being both cheaper and easier. Basically, the charm of a foreign winter holiday on a warm beach had worn off. I cans see this having plus and minus outcomes for Alpine winter holiday businesses.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
tarrantd wrote:
Cable internet was started in 2000 by NTL in the UK . ISDN in the form of BT highway was I think towards the end 1997.


Our local franchise in South Wales was Cabeltel. This later became NTL - Telewest was one of the other main cable operators & many other companies who ran cable television.
It would have been 95 or 96
Even had to buy my own cable router at the time.
Luckily, I worked at OEM computer manufacturer, so bought through work & paid via salary sacrifice.
Hence - I know it was 95 or 96, as they went bust early 1997
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