 Poster: A snowHead
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| Gordyjh wrote: |
| @LaForet, in English? |
Many apologies. Translated - The GDS Group in central government were set up to do funky new web stuff a few years ago. This was in the context of most Government systems being so big and complex you spent 90% of your effort just coordinating and planning stuff, rather than developing actual applications. So yes, they did do some good work but they self-selected what was basically the easy new stuff that was mainly user interactions in a browser. Web developers introduced new techniques like 'agile' and 'scrum' methods to quickly cycle through prototypes hand-in-hand with end users: and again, this was a genuinely useful development that got new IT applications to users much faster. But most government systems aren't amenable to this sort of approach and are much more 'back office' processing than desktop interactions. I worked on one MoJ system where the diagram showing all the different software modules and how they interacted was 11 metres long x 40cm high - this where each processing module (essentially each separate program) on the chart was represented by a 4cm x 3cm box, with arrows and lines showing how the data moved between them. Old IT guys like me were warning the GDS types that complex 'back office' systems need lots of coordination and testing but this was an unfashionable attitude, and when GDS finally got given the opportunity to work on one of these big, old, complex systems, it didn't go exactly as they expected ...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I see, I think!
To err is human, to really f... things up requires a computer. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| musher wrote: |
| "Agile" basically means make it up as you go along. It the way kids want to program nowadays because they lack design skills or the patience to do it properly. |
No, Agile is the acceptance that "Whatever you do will be wrong", which is what's always been true of every project but by accepting it at the start means you save all the time wasted pretending it isn't.
In a classic, Waterfall project you spend months, even years on BA (Business Analysis), trying to work out EXACTLY what you want. You then spend ages designing a solution to meet these requirements, then develop it, hand it over to the client...who says "No, that's not what we want".
With Agile you accept that:
a) What people want WILL change.
b) People often don't KNOW what they want.
As a result you run through cycles of getting basic requirements, building something, showing it to the customer and getting their feedback and using that to update the requirements for the next cycle.
Once used to it almost everyone in a project comes to love Agile. The only people who don't are the BAs (Business Analysts) who no longer have a job and Prince II PMs (Project Managers) who, ironically can't manage the change from their beloved Gantt charts.
Government projects are the last bastions of the Waterfall project, and they NEVER go 200% over time and 300% over budget do they...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Mjit,
As I always say, there is what the customer asked for, what they actually wanted and then there is what they really needed 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| musher wrote: |
@Mjit,
As I always say, there is what the customer asked for, what they actually wanted and then there is what they really needed |
Indeed, and that’s exactly what Agile enables you to tease out much sooner and more cheaply than burning through a six-nine month project cycle only to to find the end results are not what was really needed, or that things have moved on.
Jez Humble is worth a google - he has done some really interesting research on product development, and looking at real world software projects has shown that from somewhere between 60-80% of features requested in a typical project add zero, or worse negative value to the business (ie cost more to build than they save/deliver in benefits). Do agile right and you can also tell when it makes commercial sense to stop eg using cost of delay.
And @Mjit - don’t know where you get the idea that BAs are no longer required - they are just as important as ever in Agile - it’s just now they focus on the bite-size requirements that go into each user story. Users are still as awful as ever at describing what/how things should work for them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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This is a major case of thread drift and while I accept that a lot of skiers are also computer geeks and a lot of computer geeks are also skiers it is time to banish coding and the relationship between project specifiers, project delivery and the poor end users who have to put up with the final product to a computer forum.
In the mean time for travel to France the EHIC was almost a complete waste of time what with Doctors not willing to accept them, Hospitals being reluctant to accept them and then the EHIC only covering 80% of medical elements and none of the "hotel" elements like bed charge and meal charges, even charging for meals when "nil by mouth". The only tangible benefit I have experienced was that a couple of insurance companies (not all) have waived the insurance excess on the medical part of my claims.
I don't expect the GHIC to be any better and probably worse in terms of acceptability.
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sorry - hadn’t even noticed we were supposed to be discussing that 
All my families EHICs are expiring in the next couple of months, so will soon be applying for GHICS, even if they are of limited value. But I’ve always had to rely on insurance too in the past (admittedly for only minor stuff).
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| Timc wrote: |
| In the mean time for travel to France the EHIC was almost a complete waste of time what with Doctors not willing to accept them, Hospitals being reluctant to accept them and then the EHIC only covering 80% of medical elements and none of the "hotel" elements like bed charge and meal charges, even charging for meals when "nil by mouth". |
That’s not my experience in a French or Austrian hospital. Extremely easy to use, essentially a photocopy of the card and a signature, with the payment office knowing exactly what the UK EHIC card was. Covered several thousands of Euros for treatment. Of course, you need to understand what EHIC covers, as it is not a ‘mobile NHS’ replacement, so you need to ensure that things which aren’t covered by EHIC are covered by other means. This includes, as you say, the ‘hotel’ charges and using private medical facilities (which include most minor injury clinics in ski resorts, for example).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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French GPs don't accept EHIC as all consultations have a fixed charge, be you French or British. French pay 20% of the cost of their healthcare too, unless they have additional insurance. The daily hospital charge is/was less than 20€ per day, and isn't just a meal charge. If you weren't covered by an EHIC you'd soon find out how expensive that stay would have been.
Hubby had a one week stay in Grenoble hospital, and only thing I physically paid for was the 30€ for a GP visit at the bottom of the slopes. Ambulance spoke to the insurers and sorted the bill direct. I took his EHIC card to the 'Etrangers' office in the hospital along with our insurance policy. There was no reluctance to accept it. I was asked by the ward staff to take it there. He had emergency surgery to repair a broken neck. Emergency operations are free (although it had a potential 'charge' of over 10,000€) . The one week in hospital bill was about 160€ which was sent to insurers. The MRI scan at Briancon hospital was billed later at 20% of the total cost and again sent to insurers. EHIC has never promised free treatment in the country you are travelling to, it has only ever promised you the same level of treatment as a citizen would receive.
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@Hells Bells, that's the same experience that I've had (two visits to Albertville hospital with friends, one with a broken tibia which needed surgery to pin it back together, the other with a spiral tib & fib which also needed pinning). There was a fixed daily charge (18€ IIRC) for the hospital stay, but the EHIC covered the cost of the surgery. They had to pay for crutches and boot things they were fitted with, and possibly painkiller medication, but that was a small enough bill I don't think they bothered with an insurance claim.
In Austria my EHIC covered me in Schwaz Hospital for x-rays, abdominal MRI and ultrasound scans plus some blood tests. As I didn't stay overnight there was zero charge of any kind. My travel insurance covered the helicopter ride to the hospital and the taxi ride back to my hotel, and because I used my EHIC card to cover the hospital cost there was no excess to pay on my travel insurance claim. The total bill that day was well over €6,000 and I paid precisely nothing, covered by a combination of EHIC and travel insurance. While I don't really care what the new GHIC card looks like, Union Flag logo or not, I do hope that the new design is recognised by hospitals in the EU as my experience of using the EHIC card has been extremely positive and it would be a shame if the new design caused confusion when you needed to use it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Remember that post-Brexit, the EHIC/GHIC reciprocal cost arrangements with the EU only apply to the 27 not the 4 EFTA ones (Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Norway and Iceland). You now no longer get automatic flow-down of reciprocal healthcare cover to the 4. So it's now extra important to have travel insurance cover for 'Europe' that you're sure includes, say Switzerland if you go there, or as with areas like the Portes du Soleil, or Cervinia-Zermatt, might find yourself straying into from France or Italy.
From our own experience, our insurer is providing the same cover as before, but including the full cover for Switzerland and Norway at around a 15% premium on last year's cost. Although it's obviously hard to be certain how much of the +15% is down to other factors.
As ever, the on-piste assurance you get at the caisse seems worth the typical £3-£4/day on top of the ski pass charge, if only to avoid having to pay the helicopter company the £100/minute charge and for the pisteurs and paramedics, even if you can then claim it back form the insurer. One less thing to worry about in a situation where you're going to be pretty stressed already.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@LaForet, I still think that’s what credit cards are for! Gets you off the hill & then let the insurance company argue about costs.
Also means that when you hurt yourself at lunchtime Saturday and only have the work experience grunt at the insurance company to talk to you are 1. Doing so from the comfort of a medical centre & 2. Able to take an executive decision to pay & leave even when said grunt tells you not to. How on earth they thought I was going to be able to leave without paying when they didn’t have the authority to agree to it over the phone is still a mystery! 
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 28-02-21 13:59; edited 1 time in total
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| Gordyjh wrote: |
| @LaForet, I still think that’s what credit cards are for! Gets you off the hill & then let the insurance company argue about costs. |
I think I would rather have the reassurance that the bill had been paid, rather than worry that the travel insurers were going to come up with an excuse for not paying out on the claim.
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You know it makes sense.
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Gordyjh In our case, the bills for the helicopter, the pisteurs and the paramedics and helicopter doctor all came through subsequently over a period of six weeks. They all had to be paid by bank transfer, in the home currency, not credit card. The whole claim exercise involved 27 different documents having to be scanned/forwarded to the insurers. Anything that reduced the effort was welcome and next time we go, I'll be very happy to fork out the extra £18 for the standard assurance cover from teh caisse - It's easily worth it to obviate the stress and effort involved in paying and reclaiming and trivial in comparison to the overall cost of the holiday.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@LaForet, even without an on or off-piste rescue (hubby was close to the bottom of the mountain), and using EHIC, the documentation I had gather and forward to our insurer for things we were claiming for was at times overwhelming.
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Poster: A snowHead
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If you’re hurt bad enough to require some sort of evacuation to a resort clinic or a nearby hospital the last thing you want to worry about is the different permutations of insurance cover, especially if the saving you’d make to ensure you aren’t over insured is less than a cup of coffee per day (less if you ski a lot and buy an annual policy). When I’ve been hurt, it’s been a blessing that I’ve not had to worry about paying first, or calling insurance companies. I’ve just wanted to get off the hill as easily as possible, and get to Dr without any fuss. If that means buying a bit of extra insurance I think it’s a price well worth paying.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@rob@rar, to be fair, these are rare events. I have had 1 trip in a blood wagon in 50+ years. I don’t plan to have more! I buy insurance on an annual multi trip policy which covers off-piste skiing with(out) a guide. What extra does the skipass insurance provide? They always ask if I want it but I just assume I don’t need it as I’m already covered.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Gordyjh wrote: |
| @rob@rar, to be fair, these are rare events. I have had 1 trip in a blood wagon in 50+ years. I don’t plan to have more! I buy insurance on an annual multi trip policy which covers off-piste skiing with(out) a guide. What extra does the skipass insurance provide? |
Yes, they are rare events, but isn’t that why we buy insurance? For events which are foreseeable, but rare? I don’t plan to be helicoptered off the hill again, but as I didn’t have much choice in the first time it happened I can’t guarantee it won’t happen again.
Skipass insurance for me is peace of mind. For a small amount of money (I buy an annual policy and it works out at less than a Euro per day) I know that I have complete cover, which operates seamlessly at times when I don’t want to be worrying about how best to navigate the insurance industry. Purely a personal decision, of course. In this situation, for not a lot of money, I’m happy to be over insured.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| LaForet wrote: |
| Remember that post-Brexit, the EHIC/GHIC reciprocal cost arrangements with the EU only apply to the 27 not the 4 EFTA ones (Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Norway and Iceland). You now no longer get automatic flow-down of reciprocal healthcare cover to the 4. So it's now extra important to have travel insurance cover for 'Europe' that you're sure includes, say Switzerland if you go there, or as with areas like the Portes du Soleil, or Cervinia-Zermatt, might find yourself straying into from France or Italy. |
Actually many people going to non-border resorts in the same area as the Portes du Soleil would be well advised to have Swiss travel insurance. OK, you won't have the risk of a skiing accident in Switzerland but if you're flying in/out of Geneva there's plenty of scope for non-ski accidents that lead to hospital visits...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| LaForet wrote: |
| ... As ever, the on-piste assurance you get at the caisse seems worth the typical £3-£4/day on top of the ski pass charge, if only to avoid having to pay the helicopter company the £100/minute charge and for the pisteurs and paramedics, even if you can then claim it back form the insurer. One less thing to worry about in a situation where you're going to be pretty stressed already. |
+1. I am quite surprised that travel insurers don't insist on this, in addition to GHIC/EHIC. It would remove one of the potentially really costly elements of a claim, and the extra cost to he consumer is small relative to the lift pass. Perhaps they think that with GHIC+slope-side rescue people wouldn't actually bother with travel insurance at all?
Then again, I am also surprised that lift pass companies don't automatically include it. By saving on admin the cost would probably drop to about €2/day. Just add that to the price of the pass, pay a proportion over to the helicopter companies etc, and anyone with a pass is automatically recovered by the pisteurs to either medical centre or hospital, without having to faff about with receipts etc.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ecureuil wrote: |
| Then again, I am also surprised that lift pass companies don't automatically include it. By saving on admin the cost would probably drop to about €2/day. Just add that to the price of the pass, pay a proportion over to the helicopter companies etc, and anyone with a pass is automatically recovered by the pisteurs to either medical centre or hospital, without having to faff about with receipts etc. |
I'd prefer it if it wasn't compulsory as I buy the annual Carte Neige policy, so no need for me to pay an additional daily fee for the Carre Neige policy (when I'm skiing in France) for essentially the same policy.
You might be right that's there's room in the market for travel insurance fro UK skiers to get a discount if they also have GHIC and the local insurance policy you buy with the lift pass. I know one of the UK insurance companies that sells policies to the UK market had discussions with the company that underwrites Carre/Carte Neige, but I don't think anything came of it.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| ecureuil wrote: |
| Then again, I am also surprised that lift pass companies don't automatically include it. By saving on admin the cost would probably drop to about €2/day. Just add that to the price of the pass, pay a proportion over to the helicopter companies etc, and anyone with a pass is automatically recovered by the pisteurs to either medical centre or hospital, without having to faff about with receipts etc. |
I'd prefer it if it wasn't compulsory as I buy the annual Carte Neige policy, so no need for me to pay an additional daily fee for the Carre Neige policy (when I'm skiing in France) for essentially the same policy.
You might be right that's there's room in the market for travel insurance fro UK skiers to get a discount if they also have GHIC and the local insurance policy you buy with the lift pass. I know one of the UK insurance companies that sells policies to the UK market had discussions with the company that underwrites Carre/Carte Neige, but I don't think anything came of it. |
There is something in the back of my mind that says the Carre/Carte Neige is only for those living in the EU - is there any truth in this?
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| There is something in the back of my mind that says the Carre/Carte Neige is only for those living in the EU - is there any truth in this? |
Hope not! I’ve not been aware of any restrictions on buying the Carre Neige policy, it seems to be offered to anyone who buys a lift pass regardless of domicile, from what I’ve seen. Hope the same applies to Carte Neige. I guess the only possible issue might be repatriation cover?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| There is something in the back of my mind that says the Carre/Carte Neige is only for those living in the EU - is there any truth in this? |
Hope not! I’ve not been aware of any restrictions on buying the Carre Neige policy, it seems to be offered to anyone who buys a lift pass regardless of domicile, from what I’ve seen. Hope the same applies to Carte Neige. I guess the only possible issue might be repatriation cover? |
I suspect you could be right.
I have just googled and found this, which could easily be wrong: Carré Neige and Carte Neige insurances are both types of French winter insurance cover that can be purchased by anyone living in the EU.
https://www.seelaplagne.com/ski-insurance#:~:text=Carr%C3%A9%20Neige%20and%20Carte%20Neige,anyone%20living%20in%20the%20EU.
We always took it for granted.
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Oh, FFS! (pun not intended).
Yet another fecking #BrexitDividend.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
Oh, FFS! (pun not intended).
Yet another fecking #BrexitDividend. |
Please check it out for sure - because I can't find any other reference to it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Old Fartbag, yes, I’ll make sure to check in the autumn when I look to buy next season’s policy.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| @Old Fartbag, yes, I’ll make sure to check in the autumn when I look to buy next season’s policy. |
Can you let the rest of us know for sure?
I'm in the weird position of having an EU passport, am entitled to an EHIC card but live in NI, which as you know, is not in the EU (but is for goods)....Heaven knows what the position on that would be. 
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You know it makes sense.
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I don't think this is right. If you look at the documents on the Carré Neige website https://carreneige.com/en/nos-offres/carre-neige/ I can't see any mention of it being restricted to EU citizens only. And the "Warranty" document repatriation section specifically lists countries (of residence) covered, including many not in the EU: UK, European Russia, Jordan, Tunisia, ...
Not sure if Carte Neige is similar
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ecureuil wrote: |
I don't think this is right. If you look at the documents on the Carré Neige website https://carreneige.com/en/nos-offres/carre-neige/ I can't see any mention of it being restricted to EU citizens only. And the "Warranty" document repatriation section specifically lists countries (of residence) covered, including many not in the EU: UK, European Russia, Jordan, Tunisia, ...
Not sure if Carte Neige is similar |
It didn't really sound right to me....but with these things, it's best to be sure.
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Poster: A snowHead
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It is however possible that it can only be purchased in the EU. Following Brexit, EU insurance companies no longer have an automatic right to sell policies in the UK; although this could be addressed at some point.
Not an issue when you turn up at the caisse, but not sure how it will work for anyone purchasing online in advance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| i just applied to mine today, got to say a 5 year old could do a better job at designing the website |
Wow mine just arrived today. 9 days is a fantastic turnaround
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
Oh, FFS! (pun not intended).
Yet another fecking #BrexitDividend. |
it should cover you for the usual lift off the mountain, just not repatriation afterwards.
Plenty of non EU folk have bought & used carre niege before.
Its not like the UK is the only country in the world not in the EU 
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 6-03-21 15:18; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Could someone please explain to me the fascination on this site for the Carre Neige. As far as I can see it is a very limited localised insurance policy specifically for the Savoie region of France, only available to buy in in the Savoie region and therefore not relevant if you are not skiing in the Savoie.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Timc wrote: |
| Could someone please explain to me the fascination on this site for the Carre Neige. As far as I can see it is a very limited localised insurance policy specifically for the Savoie region of France, only available to buy in in the Savoie region and therefore not relevant if you are not skiing in the Savoie. |
Probably because it is of considerable interest to those discussing it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Timc wrote: |
| Could someone please explain to me the fascination on this site for the Carre Neige. As far as I can see it is a very limited localised insurance policy specifically for the Savoie region of France, only available to buy in in the Savoie region and therefore not relevant if you are not skiing in the Savoie. |
I think the fact you can buy it for 3 Euro for any day you chose to ski gives it massive flexibility
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| Timc wrote: |
| Could someone please explain to me the fascination on this site for the Carre Neige. As far as I can see it is a very limited localised insurance policy specifically for the Savoie region of France, only available to buy in in the Savoie region and therefore not relevant if you are not skiing in the Savoie. |
Holy thread drift, Batman.
Google site:snowheads.com carre neige
- and decide for yourself.
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@Timc, also available in Hautes-Alpes and Isere.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Hells Bells,
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@Timc, also available in Hautes-Alpes and Isere
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Just quoting what Carre Neige say on their website "only available in the Savoie department"
@achilles,
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Holy thread drift, Batman.
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Not really, it's mentioned at least 5 times in this thread and seems to crop up in every insurance related thread here.
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| Timc wrote: |
| Could someone please explain to me the fascination on this site for the Carre Neige. As far as I can see it is a very limited localised insurance policy specifically for the Savoie region of France, only available to buy in in the Savoie region and therefore not relevant if you are not skiing in the Savoie. |
Perhaps it reflects that a significant number of  s like skiing in the Savoie!
But there are similar piste rescue deals available in many (most?) resorts. So the general principle of whether that +GHIC is sufficient is of much wider interest.
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FAQ
