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Binding alignment

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If one foot/ankle has a tendency to collapse inwards, causing the ski to turn in too much/quickly, would it make sense to angle a new binding on that foot outwards? Appreciate it means the ski has to be used on one side, edge wear etc
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I recall that comes into the realm of canting adjustments. Ranging from cuff canting on boots, boot sole plates and wedging in binding mountings.

Looks like a start here - https://www.cantology.com/
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Or, @BobinCH, Rule 5.
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Can this be corrected with strength / movement training? e.g. one legged squats on a BOSU.
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DB wrote:
Can this be corrected with strength / movement training? e.g. one legged squats on a BOSU.


Doubt it. Ankle is Be Nice please!. Have professionally made insole. One legged balancing exercises don’t seem to be making any difference.
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Glad to see it's not just me obsessing over biomechanical failings atm haha!

I wonder if this could be helped by strengthening the muscles on the outside of your quads/glutes? My physio has me doing things like 'crab walks' with resistance bands atm. Principally as rehab for ITB band issues but may help here too?

https://www.runnersradar.com/advice/exercise-of-the-month-glute-crab-walk/

Alternatively I think Fischer (?) was experimenting with offset/duck feet boots a couple of years ago...
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@clarky999, Nordica had offset boots oh 12 or so years ago? The Mrs and I had them. Didn't notice any difference.
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Fischer were doing "duck stance" boots for a while (Somatec?) which I considered briefly due to being quite quacky.
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Try it and let us know! I've often wondered whether binding mounted at five-to-one would allow a more natural flex? On narrow skis the option didn't exist, but with the underfoot width now available, why not? (Apart from the skis ending up handed (or footed!) I suppose Madeye-Smiley ). Most boarders set their bindings up that way, it's got to be worth a try... Puzzled
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Bit difficult to play with different binding positions, why not experiment with boot changes first ?
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clarky999 wrote:
Glad to see it's not just me obsessing over biomechanical failings atm haha!

I wonder if this could be helped by strengthening the muscles on the outside of your quads/glutes? My physio has me doing things like 'crab walks' with resistance bands atm. Principally as rehab for ITB band issues but may help here too?

https://www.runnersradar.com/advice/exercise-of-the-month-glute-crab-walk/

Alternatively I think Fischer (?) was experimenting with offset/duck feet boots a couple of years ago...


I’m pretty sure it’s mechanical so looking for setup tweaks. Have a new set of freeride skis to setup with Alpine bindings and I reckon a 1pm position on the right hand binding would help me flatten that ski, reduce the knee/hip pressure and improve the turn shape. But looking for some confirmation before drilling an expensive pair of DPS skis Shocked @Spyderjon where are you when we need you!
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BobinCH wrote:
... would help me flatten that ski, reduce the knee/hip pressure and improve the turn shape.

Those are the kind of things that boot alignment can improve, tends to be more incremental than just mounting the bindings at a 1pm position though.
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@BobinCH, I'd try to get the foot and ankle working properly in the boot before mounting a ski duck. Indeed I'm not sure that would even work.

Bootfitter that can do canting would be the first option from my perspective.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
you seen a physio?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Well there's really no hope for a guy that can't even put an equipment question in the Equipment Forum rolling eyes Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
BobinCH wrote:
If one foot/ankle has a tendency to collapse inwards, causing the ski to turn in too much/quickly, would it make sense to angle a new binding on that foot outwards?.....

rjs wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
... would help me flatten that ski, reduce the knee/hip pressure and improve the turn shape.

Those are the kind of things that boot alignment can improve, tends to be more incremental than just mounting the bindings at a 1pm position though.

Assuming that your boot cuff alignment is correct then I'm with rjs & colinstone on this as it sounds like a boot alignment issue, sometime known as lateral canting. And it's pretty common.

What I suspect is happening is that, even though you have a correctly fitted boot and insole, the sole of your boot is not actually flat/horizontal when you're in your natural stance (ie it's canted) and this is then transferred to the ski meaning that the ski base is not flat on the snow - so you're running slightly on the inside or outside edge etc. A good bootfitter that understands this can correct for it, usually with a laterally canted shim between the boot board/zeppa and the liner or by lateral sole grinding (although sole grinding won't work for use in a tech binding). Some boot makes/models are now available with laterally canted soles specifically for this purpose. A few degrees of adjustment can usually be accomodated in the boot but if more is needed then I can manufacture laterally canted shims to go between the ski and the bindings.

Here's a pic of the lateral alignment gizmo that used to test for and quantify the corrective angle need etc. There are other gizmo's on the market and a top boot guru can probably do it by eye. The 'balancer' shown is used one foot at a time while the skier does slow one-legged squats bare footed while standing on their footbed on the central plate which can be 'twisted' either way. What the assessor is looking for is what angle, either inward or outward, allows the skier to slowly squat up/down whilst maintaining their balance and with the knee tracking straight as opposed to the inside or the outside.























When the corrective work has been done to the boot(s) then the skier goes back on the balancer but this time with their feet on the outer plates. The outer plates can then be tilted fore/aft to determine the ideal delta angle for that skier in that specific boot.
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@spyderjon, many thanks. Will see if I can DIY a lifter under the boot board to tip the foot outwards and see what it feels like
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@BobinCH, I add ~25mm cardboard strips on top of the boot board to tip my feet inwards, this moves my knees out. I wouldn't be able to do anything under the boot board as mine are bolted to the shell.

The machine in the picture allows you to find out how your ankle articulates. You could try it yourself by standing barefoot on a footbed with a bit of card under one side then again with it under the other side.
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rjs wrote:
@BobinCH, I add ~25mm cardboard strips on top of the boot board to tip my feet inwards, this moves my knees out. I wouldn't be able to do anything under the boot board as mine are bolted to the shell.

The machine in the picture allows you to find out how your ankle articulates. You could try it yourself by standing barefoot on a footbed with a bit of card under one side then again with it under the other side.


I went for the very technical solution of 2 foot warmer sachets under the interior of each end if the foot board to tip foot outwards. Only did a short run so hard to tell if it made much difference. Might have another go tomorrow with something a bit more solid Very Happy
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@BobinCH, caveat in that it’s rather impractical for you but Andi McCann at Alpine McCannix does exactly this. He teams up with CEM. It has made a significant difference to my skiing. He fits a canted insole (canting on the boot cuff doesn’t achieve the same outcome). Doing a single leg squat in uncanted and correctly canted positions is eye opening
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Quote:

What I suspect is happening is that, even though you have a correctly fitted boot and insole, the sole of your boot is not actually flat/horizontal when you're in your natural stance (ie it's canted) and this is then transferred to the ski meaning that the ski base is not flat on the snow

I had this issue a few years ago after a nasty knee injury. The bootfitter measured it as 3 degrees off horizontal (which seems a lot, given I hadn't noticed anything), and fixed it with a canted sole. Hard to judge how much difference it makes, but my balance seems better now. I fall over very slightly less, anyway.
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Tognar make canting strips to go under the binding: https://www.tognar.com/ski-binding-cant-strip/
As Jon mentions, these are good if an adjustment within the boot doesn't correct the problem and/or pin bindings are used. If combined with Quiver Killer inserts, they allow for a bit of experimentation on the hill. The shipping from the US is an expense but I just bought enough to last a few years.
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Don’t really feel much difference with my DIY fix. If anything it tips the foot into a more uncomfortable position and doesn’t stop the ankle collapsing inwards. I’m hoping Pointing the binding outward would allow my knee to flex straight down the ski rather than inwards which drives the ski onto its inside edge too early
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@BobinCH, You don't really seem to be reading what other people write, so why not report back after you have destroyed your new skis.
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@BobinCH, you can diy check your lateral alignment using this extract from Warren Witherell's book as a guide:

https://skidome.org/skidome2/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Boot-Canting-Adjustment-and-Alignment.pdf

I have a similar problem to you in that, without any adjustment, I tend to overedge my left ski and it feels 'grabby'. My left leg is slightly bowed relative to the right and I use a canting shim under the left binding with the thicker side on the outside to bring my knee in and over the boot centre line.
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BobinCH wrote:
Don’t really feel much difference with my DIY fix. If anything it tips the foot into a more uncomfortable position and doesn’t stop the ankle collapsing inwards.......

If you have a properly fitted boot and footbed I can't see how your ankle can "collapse".
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@BobinCH, I think this is impossible to sort out by yourself. As others have said, this sounds like a canting problem. I'd go and see one of the better fitters in CHX when that becomes possible.
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gorilla wrote:
I'd go and see one of the better fitters in CHX when that becomes possible.

Or ask the Verbier club who they use for boot alignment, maybe try Veysonnaz if you don't get an answer for Verbier.

I got my boots at SOLE but I do my own alignment so I don't know what they would do if a customer came in and asked them to start from scratch. I'm fairly sure they have a machine like the one above.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
spyderjon wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
Don’t really feel much difference with my DIY fix. If anything it tips the foot into a more uncomfortable position and doesn’t stop the ankle collapsing inwards.......

If you have a properly fitted boot and footbed I can't see how your ankle can "collapse".


I saw Anja at Number 1 sports (she used to work at Mountain Air) as recommended by @CEM and she reckons the ankle is blocked so when flexing forward the heel lifts and can then rotate. So she fitted a “deeper” footbed, added another heel lift. Let’s see if it helps...
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