 Poster: A snowHead
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The last time I had a lesson was in 1994 
I have skied 71 days over 12 trips. The truth is I don't know how I ski, it just happens.
What plan of action should I take for next season?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nothing, if you are happy with how you ski...if you aren't, you'll have to make a plan on how to improve.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I can get around the mountain and am comfortable to do blacks, but don't know what I am doing wrong. Surley I can improve my style. I'd like to ski blacks, not just comfortable, but confidently. I'd also like to learn how to ski powder.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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johnboy, I to have not been a great one for lessons but I had 3 x 2 hr lessons at the Eosb and I am twice the skier I was at the start of the week. Perhaps there is a moral in there somewhere. I do feel that the instructor played a big part in this.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I have a lesson or two every season, and they still work wonders for me in improving my technique I feel. It depends on how far you want to take your skiing, and what your budget is, but if you want to stretch yourself, then lessons are the way forward.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Kramer, I think you learnt your lesson the other night... When someone says "get my coat", it doesn't mean you've pulled, but it might mean you've heaved.
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I spent many years without lessons. Although I improved my skiing during that time, I did find that there were many conditions (eg steep slopes, deep snow, bumps) that I really struggled with. Since I started taking lessons again (with good instructors, not just run-of-the-mill guys) I've found that conditions which used to be a real challenge no longer flummox me, and I've realised that in the years without taking lessons I was simply consolidating a number of bad habits (even though I was enjoying myself a great deal). Although I don't count the instruction-free years as wasted, I'm firmly of the opinion that I'd be a damn sight better skier than I am now if I'd had occasional lessons during that time. As it is now, I feel like I have a lot of catching up to do.
The lessons I've taken have given me a better theoretical understanding of how skiing works, and have provided me with invaluable feedback as I try to put that theory into practice. johnboy, if you want to change the way you ski then lessons sounds like a good place to start, but if you do decide to invest time and money in this, make sure that you sign up with a good instructor. I think the response from snowHeads at the EOSB who worked with Ewan and Charlotte shows that a good instructor can help transform your skiing.
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Fair points people.
I think I know myself that a few lessons are the way to go. I seem to have reached my own plateau.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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practice makes permanent
perfect practice makes perfect
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johnboy, I am hoping for my SO to agree to go for a snoworks holiday this year. Slikedges has recently done one in Tignes: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=15289 . We had lessons in Zermatt, and I hadn't had any since I learnt, and I have 60 ish days skiing under my belt; I would thoroughly recommend taking some lessons, as I now have far more confidence 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As my violin teacher used to say, if you practice your faults long enough you'll perfect them. I like lessons because a) they boost my confidence and b) they nip bad habits in the bud
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johnboy, Are there any artificial slopes near you ? If so - get a lesson now ! 
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You know it makes sense.
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I've had one private one hour lesson when i first started to ski 8 years ago. Since then i've taught myself through looking at others and reading books. Don't have problems on steep mogulled blacks or on medium difficulty off piste terain. The thing is with lessons, it wastes your holiday time and if your happy just skiing the way you are you may aswell carry on.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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AN02ZEJ, you seem to be assuming you can't have fun in lessons. Not true, in my experience. And in any field, if you want to improve, it's surely better to get some expert guidance to go along with your own observation and reading.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We had great fun with Ewa non our lessons at last week's bash. Now our group are no experts but as one drill he had us hopping on alternate skis, 2 hops left, 2 hops right, all without putting the second leg down. Now that was fun.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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laundryman, I agree, I've always thoroughly enjoyed my lessons, made new friends and had some great laughs along the way. If you are new to the resort, a ski instructor is a useful guide too.
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I have a ball in most of my lessons... so do the instructors... (well except the day we let 2 other instructors drag us down into a creek valley outside the resort so i was on a ledge about 8inches wide hanging over a creek and could see the water below on the GROUND side(not creek side) through the cracks in snow! ... We did enjoy it once we bailed out and got to the car for beer though!)
Just out of curiosity do those who teach selves to ski also teach selves to swim? I'm sure there must be books on swimming around and there is plenty of video of good swimmers from olympics/WC/commonwealth games.... so it should be EASIER to teach self to swim than to ski due to easier access to info and more television footage....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think I've had fun in every lesson I've had in recent years, private or group. I've often been taken out of my comfort zone, been apprehensive and sometimes just plain scared. But I've always had fun, and it's been some of the most rewarding skiing I've done.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| little tiger wrote: |
Just out of curiosity do those who teach selves to ski also teach selves to swim? I'm sure there must be books on swimming around and there is plenty of video of good swimmers from olympics/WC/commonwealth games.... so it should be EASIER to teach self to swim than to ski due to easier access to info and more television footage.... |
Not sure this is a great analogy or maybe it is. I'd suspect most people have swimming lessons when kids, basically learn how to do the strokes then never take a lesson again. The exception being competitive swimmers/triathletes. On TV its also hard to see the strokes to self improve while I'd argue good skiing form is more easily discerned from watching racers/freeride movies.
I'm in the no recent ski lesson camp. Personally I think I learn best with a "dip -in, dip out" - get a drill, go off & practise alone, get someone to see if its worked, get another. This makes traditional structured lessons seem poor value to me as there may be some times when I just want to go off & consolidate rather than moving on to the next thing. I don't generally need or want the guiding aspect so that's absolutely no value to me. Anyone suggest a cost effective way of taking lessons like this?
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| AN02ZEJ wrote: |
| I've had one private one hour lesson when i first started to ski 8 years ago. Since then i've taught myself through looking at others and reading books. Don't have problems on steep mogulled blacks or on medium difficulty off piste terain. The thing is with lessons, it wastes your holiday time and if your happy just skiing the way you are you may aswell carry on. |
Hmmmm.
Your comment about not having a problem with "medium difficulty off piste" may be a bit of a giveaway. What about difficult or challenging off piste? It's often been said that there are things you can get away with on piste with a faulty technique, but off piste will find you out.
I remember skiing with a couple of people who said that they had never had a lesson in their lives and were actually a bit macho about it. I thought to myself - it shows.
I am not trying to get at you but there are very few people in any sport who can learn just by reading books and imitating others. If you can do it then you are a very natutural sportsman indeed.
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| fatbob wrote: |
Not sure this is a great analogy or maybe it is. I'd suspect most people have swimming lessons when kids, basically learn how to do the strokes then never take a lesson again. The exception being competitive swimmers/triathletes. On TV its also hard to see the strokes to self improve while I'd argue good skiing form is more easily discerned from watching racers/freeride movies.
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actually I'd say it is FAR easier to see swimming strokes than the finer points of ski technique....
the underwater shots looking UP at the swimmers show a lot.... slow it down and you can see quite a bit....(relatively) .... now I have a crap eye for this stuff - but see more of swimming shot like that than I can see of most sports....
take the opposite end - I have an instructor friend who was mostly self taught and then became an instructor and had to fix the bad habits....
The first time it occurred to me that someone MIGHT learn by watching was when we were talking about something to do with short turns and kids and he made a comment about the finer detail in the feet being too hard for them to see! I had never considered that someone would watch this sort of detail to learn in this manner. This person did! The decision was though that this only gives you the more gross movements. The short turn dilemma was that the timing is too fast and the movement too finessed to learn WELL from watching alone. Hence this person has all sorts of plans of attack to teach these moves to kids (all moving around stuff - you don't lecture kids is this persons motto).... This really gave me a very different perspective on the ski teaching bit.
I have seen only a couple of people that can get to pretty good skiing without lessons. One was a dancer and very athletic. Great body awareness. She still stalled out though and needed lessons to continue to progress.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| little tiger wrote: |
Just out of curiosity do those who teach selves to ski also teach selves to swim? I'm sure there must be books on swimming around and there is plenty of video of good swimmers from olympics/WC/commonwealth games.... so it should be EASIER to teach self to swim than to ski due to easier access to info and more television footage.... |
Not sure this is a great analogy or maybe it is. I'd suspect most people have swimming lessons when kids, basically learn how to do the strokes then never take a lesson again.
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how many hours of lessons would be considered necessary to "learn how to do the strokes"?
a couple of lessons?
This is what many skiers think is enough?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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swimming, whilst not as complicated as sking..and a good deal less painful when you get it wrong (unless you get it very very wrong!) has plenty of bits toit that need learning.. very few people swim anywhere near as efficiently as they could..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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CANV CANVINGTON, I swim like a brick, it's very efficient.
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Wear The Fox Hat, 
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You know it makes sense.
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Wear The Fox Hat, that rather depends on the goal, no? 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I know that if it wasn't for the lessons that I had with Charlotte in Les Deux Alps earlier this season, then I wouldn't have won the SNAFU cup.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kramer, You won the SNAFU cup , I hadn't heard. Well done.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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easiski
I have no doubt that private lessons would benefit me but I would still feel I'd benefit more from bitesized but intensive bursts of lessons 4 x 15 mins a day rather than a 1 hour lesson. That would give me what I needed but without getting frustrated by moving on too quickly when I fail to pick up the exercise first time (& can therefore practice "off the clock"). This is coloured by my recent experience of tele lessons where I actually had to step out of lessons and get confidence back by freeskiing before going back in. Now I don't expect any ski instructors to accomodate this - its more of a "club" coaching session type thing I imagine. I don't feel I miss out too much as I still pretty much have fun every run & don't get too frustrated at hitting a wall with my ability.
little tiger
You obviously see more in swimming than I do - I can recognise a good swimmer by the lack of splashing and efficiency of strokes and know from seeing coaching sessions there is a lot of performance improvement possible. I was thinking about the leisure swimmer as analagous to the leisure skier - a bit of formal learning at the start then no more ever again.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fatbob - my ski instructors would all give me a LOT more than 1 go at an exercise..... BUT if I get frustrated we do SOMETHING ELSE ... in fact anything else.... like (sometimes) just ski faster/harder("stay on my tails" is the usual command and they MEAN it... they want me there about 2 feet off the back of their skis and hanging in)...
Frustration does not help learning a whole lot... sometimes even sleeping on it solves the problem (yes we have done this - just do something else and come back the next day after the brain has digested it)...
The trick is to take the 1 HOUR lesson and see it as a heap of small lessons... just sort of joined together... do a bit of this and a bit of that... surprisingly a good instructor can give you a lot of disparate pieces that somehow end up blending together one day in the future to make the whole you may have been searching for....
you need to see all those bits as simply bits along the way - not that common to just "get better" in a lesson... it is the change in thinking and sensing and understanding and feeling and moving that happen slowly over time that lead to progress... the lessons are just ways to "nudge" you in the right direction so you don't get too far off the path....
Of course some like me are very stumbly learners and need to be "dragged" up the right path kicking and screaming....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| fatbob wrote: |
You obviously see more in swimming than I do - I can recognise a good swimmer by the lack of splashing and efficiency of strokes and know from seeing coaching sessions there is a lot of performance improvement possible. I was thinking about the leisure swimmer as analagous to the leisure skier - a bit of formal learning at the start then no more ever again. |
no i think we agree.... I certainly agree it is EASIER to recognise a good swimmer than a good skier...
WHY? well More people can do it!
I have sat on chair lifts so many times with AWESOME skiers skiing the area... and the folks on the chair are raving about some lunatic waving everything around going mach snell straight down the hill! When you point out the GOOD skiers they sort of look strangely at you "Oh do you think so?"
HELL YEAH! but often the awesome skier is NOT showing off.... he's skiing sweep while patrolling or doing a demo in an instructor exam at slow speed a superb demo - but hey its slow so it just can't be GOOD skiing can it....
Like I said how much is "a bit"?
In australia most schools go swimming every week (at least in summer many all year). When I grew up this was from year 2 to year 6. 1 afternoon EVERY week for 4 years.... and MOST of those kids do not go on to be "athletes" they just learn to SWIM
From my friends kids i gather most schools now start EARLIER in the school life of kids so they spend even longer learning.... I knwo all my friends took their kids to swimming lessons at <2 years of age and most at <1year. It is a necessity when many houses have a swimming pool! If the kid is mobile it needs to be able to float. It should not be near the water unattended but accidents happen! Parents need to know basic CPR for same reasons.
Now this is a LOT more lesson time than the average skier ever takes....
and then there are places like the Central Coast of NSW and much of the QLD coast etc where SURFING is a SCHOOL SPORT... yes high school they go to surf lessons in sport time... learn about rips and water safety and how to surf and paddle....
and most of those kids already do nippers(life saving clubs junior programs) because that is what you do for sport when you live at a beach....
and these are STILL recreational swimmers... very few compete in anything it is what they do for fun.... but they sure have lessons and coaching...
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| Quote: |
This is coloured by my recent experience of tele lessons where I actually had to step out of lessons and get confidence back by freeskiing before going back in
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fatbob, Would you care to tell us more ? I tele too ....
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little tiger,
It sounds like in Australia the swimming set up is rather better than here I know nobody who has ever taken a swimming lesson as an adult or more than basic lessons as a child.
I think much the same attitude is true in most sports virtually nobody I ski with is in the slightest bit interested in taking lessons or has had more than a few as beginners early intermediates. The only sports that I can think of where a minority of participant adults still have lessons are tennis and golf and even these are a small minority.
I don't commend this but it is the reality of what happens. Personally I find it slightly frustrating as I would like to take afew more ski lessons than I do but I do not wish to be antisocial on holiday and dissapear of on lessons.
I do know several people who have become pretyy decent skiers inspite of not having lessons. They are probably natural sportsmen but it is certainly possible in other sports so probably is in skiing as well which isn't to say that they would not learn faster with lessons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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johnboy,
I have seen quite a lot of skiers in your situation. They might feel happy skiing terrain that is within their limits but when pushed harder on steeper/variable terrain they struggle.
You would probably benefit from having some instruction so that even small things can be altered if required. Sometimes just a slight adjustment to posture or stance can make quite a difference. Also, analogies and exercises that help you to understand what a steadier position on your skis feels like, leaving you points to work on, are good to think about when recreational skiing.
Like anything, it will take time to alter habits but if you know what you need to do, after a while you should start to see a difference - able to tackle steeper terrain, or faster with more confidence.
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FAQ
