 Poster: A snowHead
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Does maximum edge angle coincide with maximum pressure? I guess it should, which is why I thought it was just after the fall line?? Probably me engaging and releasing the edges too late! Geeky but interesting and it's thinking about small increments in things like this which will deliver improvements. Also, not having to concentrate on loads of different things is more enjoyable.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Coming to this more from a mechanics than a ski instructor perspective (as I'm not a ski instructor), I'd equate maximum edge angle with maximum pressure, assuming you're making the ski carve. Though as a pedant I'd say maximum force rather than pressure. That said, I'm happy for anyone to tell me otherwise
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I see edge angle and pressure as independent. I'm trying to keep the pressure that I apply to the skis fairly constant until I get to the apex of the turn in the fall line, reduce pressure after that to avoid the skis juddering.
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@rjs, curious, pressure modulates only as function of gravity and acceleration, in long quasi static turns, how do you control it other then by edge angle changes?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@rjs, agreed... but you need to be skilful to apply that.
@viv, That is usually the case but as rjs says not always, force vs pressure could be a whole nother nerdy thread 
@under a new name, by flexing/extending the joints, think bump skiing..
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| rjs wrote: |
| I see edge angle and pressure as independent. I'm trying to keep the pressure that I apply to the skis fairly constant until I get to the apex of the turn in the fall line, reduce pressure after that to avoid the skis juddering. |
Yes, they can be managed independently to a certain extent, but there is still a relationship between turn radius (which is is part determined by edge angle) and the forces being generated. So we can absorb excess pressure after the fall line by using our natural suspension, but there are limits to this.
This circles back to my point about the skill of the skier.
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@skimottaret, but my point is that that's either very subtle (which is fine but nuanced) or transient. And definitely not a skill demonstrated by your average skier. (Actually, neither is knowing what edges do, I guess).
Oh, I see, reading on, what @rob@rar, said.
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@under a new name, modulating pressure is certainly very subtle and skillful
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@skimottaret, doh! re-reading @rjs, comment (sorree!) now I see what @rjs, means. [/dimwit] In my defence, I was thinking really, really long turns ... SG stylee ... not entirely sure why I fixated on that  my bad
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@under a new name, the best SG skiers tend to be the best at pressure control when training GS we sometimes set SG radius (w/o jumps) to get used to speed and to give yourself more time to manage pressure and edge..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Depends on the terrain but you could be holding max edge angle for about 50+% of the turn in some cases
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
Do you "finish" the turn by having max edge angles? Cant speak for other instructors but I teach tipping the skis early to start the turn, increasing edge angle till the fall line and then releasing and flattening the skis by projecting the hip along the line of momentum to set up and transition into a new turn.
The confusion could be that intermediates/early advanced skiers never really find grip/edge angle in the fall line, let alone above it so instructors incorrectly (IMV) talk about "finishing" the turn by trying to find some grip.. In that case I usually talk about "rounding" the turn off but focus on trying to find edges earlier to start the turn earlier and get the hard work done above the fall line...
As one progresses the skier finds edge and grip earlier and earlier in the turn.. |
It's interesting to contrast how snowboarding is taught, where a beginner starts with edge which then flattens in the fall line as they transition from edge to edge. As they progress that changes along with the transition point.
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