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Atomic HAWX ULTRA XDT 130 heel damaged

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello to everyone.
I need your advice or some suggestions upon the case.

A few days ago I have decided to prepare all my gear for the new season.
After checking my skies and binding (atomic bent chetler 120 and atomic warden 13 mnc), I have inspected the boots (the same as in first case), and noticed these issues on the outer liner heels:

[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ydSodAa5JZb0_8zgrDB2p3L4YMWxyBcH/view?usp=sharing[/img]
[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uTixzQnqS78E5uedkjNgMATn9g8uEtcL/view?usp=sharing[/img]
[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qW0MQqipGUL8Sa69DBwWQZpFZr_OEuPC/view?usp=sharing[/img]
[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1odSDU_YimMm9B5YflBHSHAmG4FYlNcrw/view?usp=sharing[/img]
[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d-e5hwSdoR9Fsj1BfANJXQO23M-9vfrW/view?usp=sharing[/img]
[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aCcPwh1jqwUBWdRTfi-XjPBzEWTtHxjv/view?usp=sharing[/img]

There were some issues with plastic on the heel. It was crumpled.

That moment I was disappointed, after the season of use, the plastic of the boot became crumpled, besides I have used it with the same brand bindings.

As well as the first time I have requested the exchange, nor the money, but the new pair of boots, because I really loved them, they are as good downhill as uphill, and 130 flex is 130 with no doubts.

After my exchange request to the shop (Atomic authorized dealer in Russia), they have requested my boots, skis, and bindings for inspection by their expert. I have accepted their request. I have been waiting for the few weeks while they inspect my gear and then the few weeks of waiting for the answer.

Unfortunately, they rejected my request.

So I have decided to ask you is there any way to repair the boot's heels?
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@kostyarik, I can't access the images, is there another way to post them?
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Link to google drive
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1BJ2hOMU535Nd_wjgFFMb75wYN9QvkIhf
snow conditions
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Bob wrote:
@kostyarik, I can't access the images, is there another way to post them?


Link to google drive
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1BJ2hOMU535Nd_wjgFFMb75wYN9QvkIhf
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kostyarik wrote:
......So I have decided to ask you is there any way to repair the boot's heels?

No.

You'll probably get new boots under warranty.
ski holidays
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spyderjon wrote:
kostyarik wrote:
......So I have decided to ask you is there any way to repair the boot's heels?

No.

You'll probably get new boots under warranty.


Unfortunately, they have rejected my request to change the boots.
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I had this issue but not with those boots. I had the heels routed down and then taken back to the DIN standard with a thin steel heelpiece that is screwed into the top of the boot heel. That may not be possible with your boots and I know of only one place in the UK capable of doing the work.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@gorilla,thank you.

I have the same though.

Now i have two options:

1: To route down a heel - 1mm and fix 1mm aluminum plate to the heel to prevent plastic scrumble, but I am afraid it will damage the binding
2: To create the new aluminum part on the heel which is for the pin bindings but to make longer the left and right parts. Then to fix plastic to this plate and fix the whole piece to the boot. In my opinion, the heel would be stronger
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@kostyarik, I can't advise further, I'm afraid. I asked someone to get me a part from Lange and then do the work. I'd strongly recommend speaking to a specialist before you go this route.
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@gorilla, Thank you, a will do. Can you send some photos of the thin steel heelpiece that is screwed into the top of the boot heel
and after you did those manipulations the end binding part doesn't routed down?
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@kostyarik, I'm slightly struggling to understand how you could have done this. @spyderjon, have you seen the like before?

Maybe take it up to Atomic HQ?
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@under a new name,

When i send boots, bindings, and skies to expertise the official dealer send that the main reason is missconfiguration of the boots and bindings, besides the configuration is well done:
the toe height is configured in such a case when the list goes between the boot and binding plate and the rollback of the end part configured as it is in binding's instruction.

I have connected with atomic in facebook, and the official answer is:

"Hey Kostya,

things like this are relatively normal and happen to a lot of boot brands, not just Atomic. It even happens on World Cup race boots. While entering and exiting the binding you need to be careful to avoid something like this to happen. This especially happens to a lot of freeskiers, as they just step in super-fast without taking care that the boot fits appropriately into the heel and front piece.

Please make sure that the binding is set up correctly and tested by a shop. As long as the boot and binding combination passes and actual release test in a shop, you're okay to go with the setup.

Thx
Stevie"
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

It even happens on World Cup race boots.


WC racers are using pin bindings these days?

"
Quote:
This especially happens to a lot of freeskiers
" WTAF? "Freeskiers" step in faster than, what, "un-free" skiers? Still not making much sense to me! Were your bindings properly set up? Did Atomic adjust them?
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@under a new name,

Quote:
Were your bindings properly set up?


Yes, they are. This is the official answer of the dealer in Russian:

"Добрый день. Переслал фотографии ваших ботинок в компанию АмерСпортс, которая владеет торговой маркой Atomic. После чего связался с бренд менеджером по горнолыжному оборудованию. Он ознакомился со всей информацией по Вашему обращению. И по его мнению в Вашем случае имела место неправильная эксплуатация ботинок. Налицо механическое повреждение пяток ботинок связанное с катанием в креплениях, не предназначенных для использования с горнолыжными ботинками со скитурной подошвой (то есть ботинки встегивались в крепления, не имеющие регулировки передней головки по высоте, либо диапазон этой регулировки был недостаточен). В связи с полученным ответом, я предлагаю Вам кататься дальше в этих ботинках. Вышеуказанные повреждения никак не могут повлиять на безопасность и качество катания, а имеют чисто эстетический характер. В качестве жеста доброй воли и компенсации Ваших моральных переживаний (ботинки теперь не такие красивые), ребята из магазина в Перми готовы зачислить вам на бонусную карту 3000 баллов. Я искренне надеюсь, что такой вариант Вас устроит."

In English, i have translated it for you:

"Hello. I have resent all the material you present to AmerSports, which is the official dealer of Atomic in Russia. Then I have connected with the brand manager. He reviewed all the materials, which you have provided. In his opinion, there is a wrong use of boots. The mechanical damage of the heel is connected with the use of unsuitable bindings, which are not for ski tour boots (i mean the head of the binding is not get the heigh level conf or it's not enough). So i offer you to continue ski in these boots. All the damages do not impact the safety and quality of the riding. They are just cosmetic. So i offer you to get 3000 points to shop in our e shop. Hope you will accept the offer"



Quote:
Did Atomic adjust them?


The official dealer adjusted them.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@under a new name,

They didn't tell the bindings were misconfigured, they tell that perhaps I used other bindings which is absolutely unsuitable.
latest report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
under a new name wrote:
@kostyarik, I'm slightly struggling to understand how you could have done this. @spyderjon, have you seen the like before?

Maybe take it up to Atomic HQ?


My guess is they have been used with either ….

1. a set of bindings where the heel piece was set incorrectly and there was a lot of slop in the heel.
2. a set of boot crampons (incorrect size or setup)
3. a binding not meant for the boot (e.g. Telemark)
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'm struggling to be sure what damage we are talking about, with the images being quite small even in Dropbox.

Is it the sort of divots you can get on the top of a heel piece lip from a Marker binding (due to the high forward pressures they use)?

If so I'm in two minds:
The 'damage' is purely cosmetic so their 'just carry on' response seems reasonable.
but on the other hand
They seem to be saying the boot shouldn't go into a DIN binding and if so why do they put a DIN lip on it, and, if that's the case then doesn't the problem lie with whoever set up the binding to the boot and said it would be ok?

TBH, I'ld just look at it, shrug, and carry on.

Or am I missing something in the pics?
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
BTW, IF it is the 'divots' that we are talking about, then I say the marks are only cosmetic as
sfaik
they are caused by the binding rubbing on the top of the lip as the boot transitions into the binding (as the lip is made very deep by the vibram sole). Once the boot is in the binding then the damage on the lip has no effect on the release (or hold) of the binding.

That being said: If Atomic are saying the boot is not suitable for the binding then that is where I would focus my attention. Do they warrant that the set up will work as intended by DIN standards (with or without any divots)?
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@DB, the OP has said that the marks in the boots were caused by the Warden, and isn't that a standard DIN binding (taking telemark & crampons out of the equation)?
ski holidays
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@midgetbiker,

i downloaded better quuality photos to

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1BJ2hOMU535Nd_wjgFFMb75wYN9QvkIhf?usp=sharing
ski holidays
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midgetbiker wrote:
@DB, the OP has said that the marks in the boots were caused by the Warden, and isn't that a standard DIN binding (taking telemark & crampons out of the equation)?


Looks like Wardens are compatible for standard alpine din and touring boots. Suspect the bindings might not be set up correctly (either for boot length or heel height). I'd get a second opinion on the binding setup and if the boots still release properly despite the lip damage.
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@DB, @midgetbiker,

In official docs of the boot written that they are compatible with those binding's iso: 5355-9462, 9523-13992

I use atomic warden mnc 1. On the official website and in the binding docs is written that MNC stands for Multi Norm Certified, which means it works with all types of soles – DIN, Touring and Walk To Ride (WTR) – and fits every normed boot in the market.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

All the damages do not impact the safety and quality of the riding. They are just cosmetic.


If this is the case, I think you're getting your hose in a twist over not very much. Get out and ski on them.
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@DB,

Binding configuration is right as in binding instruction, I checked it when trey were setted up
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@kostyarik,

Has anybody esle (other than the supplier/main dealer) checked that the bindings are setup correctly for the boots? Have you had the binding release tested?
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@DB, the other authorized dealer
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@DB,

Quote:

Have you had the binding release tested?


no
latest report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
It does look like that's the same sort of effect you see with some Marker bindings on some boots.

I tend to think it's not something I'ld be making a big song and dance about

BUT

Now that the OP has started down this road I think it's a bit rich of Atomic to say you've been using the wrong binding if their own product specs seems to say the set up is a match. Was the Atomic brand manager made aware (by the shop) that the boot had been paired with a suitable Atomic binding, or was he/she just sent pics of the boot?

They're right in saying it's not uncommon though, I've seen similar plenty of times.

Does the Warden have a height adjustable toe? If so it needs to be set up correctly, then the forward pressure needs to be set correctly. Even with all that done I've seen bindings do that to boots, especially Marker, and the only reason I keep mentioning theirs is that they run a high forward pressure to get accurate DIN release, and you achieve that high orard pressure by reducing the gap between toe and heel. I've no idea if the Warden is in any way the same, never played with one.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
kostyarik wrote:
@DB,

Quote:

Have you had the binding release tested?


no


It's possible the binding was setup incorectly so that the heel was not sitting properly and this caused the damage. It's also possible that they realised this when they checked your setup and adjusted it. I'd get someone else to test the release of the bindings and if they release OK then I'd not worry about it. If you can't live with it I'd try to get a new shell free (or at a discount price) from the supplier.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@DB,

I will do the release test with the other authorized dealer and give feedback as soon as possible, perhaps tomorrow.

Thank you for your attention
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So for example, IF a binding had adjustable toe height, and it was set too low, as you attempted to click in the boot would resist pushing into the toe. You would then force the toe lug into the front binding by the forward push from the heel. The heel binding would then mark the heel lug (as if the binding were set up too small) even though once in place the forward pressure would look ok.

So you've got to make sure the toe is good before setting up the length of the binding (by setting forward pressure).

BUT I don't even know if the Warden has an adjustable toe, I'm just pontificating.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@midgetbiker,

The warden's toe is adjustable.

Before each ride, I check the bindings conf, to prevent bad things. This check includes toe height, I put the list on the binding plate, then lock the boots and check whether I can pull the list
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I had a similar damage on the same boot. It was caused by incorrect adjustment on the toe (damage on toe lug not heal) which I think happened at a different shop when skis were being waxed. I actually came out of the binding but at low speed. Was lucky.

But damage looks very similar. I readjusted the fit myself but got it checked at a specialist touring shop in resort. Seems to be fine now.
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This was on Shifts BTW
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@midgetbiker,
Quote:

They're right in saying it's not uncommon though, I've seen similar plenty of times.


Cripes. I don't think I've ever noticed anything like that. But then again, it might just look like normal wear and tear.
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Bennyboy1 wrote:
This was on Shifts BTW


The Shift toe adjustment is a bit of a nightmare if you don't have experience, the toe height adjustment is in steps (as opposed to linear) and can 'back off' if not done right, but I imagine you know that by now!
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@midgetbiker, yes lesson well learnt.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Bennyboy1, @midgetbiker, @under a new name, @DB,

The official dealer offered me to fix this plate. Photos of the same boots in google drive:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12ZkvuPzSztsrOIbmgrJ-D3XEdqBTfACu?usp=sharing
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@DB,

Unfortunately, I didn't do the release test, try to do it this week
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kostyarik wrote:
@Bennyboy1, @midgetbiker, @under a new name, @DB,

The official dealer offered me to fix this plate. Photos of the same boots in google drive:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12ZkvuPzSztsrOIbmgrJ-D3XEdqBTfACu?usp=sharing


Does it work with casual alpine bindings?
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