 Poster: A snowHead
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Your thoughts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If the shift didn't exist then yes but the removable toe is a issue for me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I’m getting them on new Freeride skis. Looks like the best downhill binding with a PIN mode. Have Shifts on another pair so will compare
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| ....Looks like the best downhill binding with a PIN mode..... |
I'd be interested to hear why you think that?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ok weighs the same or more in uphill mode as my F10/12. Doesn't hold me to the ski any better/wose. Doesn't fit all boots (need tech fittings). Doesn't adjust for many sizes. Expensive. Bits to loose. Kinda pointless marketing junk.....guess I'll see a lot on the hill.
For occasional use (more like backup uphill mode in case I end up in the wrong place) I'll stick with my F10's
For Touring use , real tech bindings - See Plum/Dynafit/G3/ATK etc.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| ....Looks like the best downhill binding with a PIN mode..... |
I'd be interested to hear why you think that? |
BTW, I don't mean that as any kind of trick question. This season will be my third selling the Shifts and I'll be selling the PT's also (arriving mid Aug).
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| ....Looks like the best downhill binding with a PIN mode..... |
I'd be interested to hear why you think that? |
BTW, I don't mean that as any kind of trick question. This season will be my third selling the Shifts and I'll be selling the PT's also (arriving mid Aug). |
Have Griffons on the DPS 124A’s which feel really solid as a downhill binding. Shifts on Blizzard Rustler 11’s also feel good but not as solid as Griffons. I hear Duke PT based on Griffon heel so expecting it will be the most solid Freeride binding downhill focused with occasional touring which is my gig. And Non scientific but all my Marker experience has been good.
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I hated my grifons, loved my vists (although more chance user error than bindings).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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PT 16's and 13's just arrived although that means another new jig 
I've had a lot of enquires re whether the new PT will work on skis mounted for Jester/Griffons.
The PT heel has the same L80mm x W32mm pattern as the Jester/Griffon but the metal insert worm drive track is a lot longer to give the greatly increased length adjustment.
The PT toe has a L46mm x W38mm pattern compared to the L31mm x W36mm of the Jester/Griffon.
Here's the PT mount in red alongside a Jester/Griffon mount in black, both at 300mm bsl and both mounted on the line. The heel holes are identical. The PT's toe locations straddle the rear toe locations of the Jester/Griffon by 15mm and 16mm so there's more than enough room for a conventional mount and sufficient room for a QK/BF mount even if the original mount was with inserts.
It's a pity that there's 2mm difference in the mounting width at the toe but if you wanted to use one of the pairs of Jester/Griffon holes then you'd end up +15mm or -16mm off the mounting line (assuming the same bsl) so very few will want to do that. But if you did want to do it (ie when there's a difference in bsl) then if you mounting the PT toe with inserts then the insert would enclose an original conventional mount and you'd be good to go.
So kudos to Marker for giving Jester/Griffon users the ability to upgrade their bindings without incurring any mounting hassle.
If anyone wants me to check the mounting hole compatibility with a different binding then advise the make/model/bsl of the existing mount plus the bsl for the Duke mount (if different) and I'll overlay the jigs to check.
And yes, the Duke PT's work great with Quiver Killer inserts and I have the screw sets in stock.
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@spyderjon, couldn’t you make a jig.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jbob wrote: |
| @spyderjon, couldn’t you make a jig. |
 . A jig for what?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@spyderjon,
“PT 16's and 13's just arrived although that means another new jig”
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You know it makes sense.
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| Idris wrote: |
Ok weighs the same or more in uphill mode as my F10/12. Doesn't hold me to the ski any better/wose. Doesn't fit all boots (need tech fittings). Doesn't adjust for many sizes. Expensive. Bits to loose. Kinda pointless marketing junk.....guess I'll see a lot on the hill.
For occasional use (more like backup uphill mode in case I end up in the wrong place) I'll stick with my F10's
For Touring use , real tech bindings - See Plum/Dynafit/G3/ATK etc. |
Nail on head : this binding is 3 years late to party.
For a 50:50 ski the shift is a better option. For pure touring ski something like classic dynafit TLT is lighter / much better option.
Suspect the removable toe is simply to get around Salomon patents on the toe piece design?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Or looking at it another way, you can have a 16 DIN solid downhill binding, which can transform into a PIN binding. Who else offers this except CAST?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Or looking at it another way, you can have a 16 DIN solid downhill binding, which can transform into a PIN binding. Who else offers this except CAST? |
Why do I want DIN 16 unless I am skiing world cup GS race? I am 6 foot 3 and 14 stone. Usually ski at DIN 8 and never suffer pre-release.
If you want a 50:50 / one ski quiver to be used resort & touring then shift (DIN13!) looks like better option for most people? It's lighter, no removable toe paff and skis like an alpine binding. As ever touring equipment all about compromise : what goes down must go up
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Or looking at it another way, you can have a 16 DIN solid downhill binding, which can transform into a PIN binding. Who else offers this except CAST? |
Why do I want DIN 16 unless I am skiing world cup GS race? I am 6 foot 3 and 14 stone. Usually ski at DIN 8 and never suffer pre-release.
If you want a 50:50 / one ski quiver to be used resort & touring then shift (DIN13!) looks like better option for most people? It's lighter, no removable toe paff and skis like an alpine binding. As ever touring equipment all about compromise : what goes down must go up |
You’re probably right for a 50/50 but I’m more of an 80/20 and would trade a Marker Alpine toe/heel for an extra 100g on the up. Griffon skis better than a Shift IMO. Maybe it’s the delta angle?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Or looking at it another way, you can have a 16 DIN solid downhill binding, which can transform into a PIN binding. Who else offers this except CAST? |
Why do I want DIN 16 unless I am skiing world cup GS race? I am 6 foot 3 and 14 stone. Usually ski at DIN 8 and never suffer pre-release.
If you want a 50:50 / one ski quiver to be used resort & touring then shift (DIN13!) looks like better option for most people? It's lighter, no removable toe paff and skis like an alpine binding. As ever touring equipment all about compromise : what goes down must go up |
You’re probably right for a 50/50 but I’m more of an 80/20 and would trade a Marker Alpine toe/heel for an extra 100g on the up. Griffon skis better than a Shift IMO. Maybe it’s the delta angle? |
Just don’t drop that toe piece in all fluffy powder at the top transition or you will be 0/100 ! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@BobinCH I hope you do a review on the PT, you will be one of few people who have spent your own money on both products.
Also note the marker PT is more expensive than the shift approx £100 for PT 12 and £150 for the PT 16.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just done this mounting comparison for the TGR crowd which some might find useful. Same bsl and mounting line although when mounting the PT over an existing Kingpin mount and sharing the two toe holes will mean that the PT will be mounted 4mm back (which is effectively nothing).
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@spyderjon, That's a handy picture, thanks for that.
Yeah I think you just get the DIN16 over the Shift, though im guessing it was just a knee jerk reaction from Marker. "How can we use all our existing products to get a binding on the market as soon as possible before Solomon have the monopoly, while avoiding existing Patents". Obviously very few people actuallt need 16, but the Duke proved that people will buy it because it must therefore be more reliably built... so maybe they are not so foolish.
I've heard (perhaps unsurprisingly) that ice is a problem for reattaching the toe at the top of a long walk. But time will tell.
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Does anybody know if you could ski short descents with the pin toe locked out? I'm looking for a binding that has this functionality for skiing in no fall terrain.
I tried the PT for a day in Andermatt a few weeks ago but didn't get the chance to try this out... I'm not sure if it was user error, but the locking mechanism on the toe didn't completely prevent release as I could still twist the front of the boot out during skinning.
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| EuanFraser wrote: |
| Does anybody know if you could ski short descents with the pin toe locked out? I'm looking for a binding that has this functionality for skiing in no fall terrain.... |
No you can't as the heel binding can't be engaged to lock the heel down - so you'd be in telemark mode - not what you'd want in those circumstances. Same with the Shift and the Cast Freetour system.
You need a binding that has pins toe & rear to do that. If you're after a high din bomber construction tech binding with great power transmission with the ability to lock the toes out and comes in at under 380g then look no further than the 20/21 ATK Freeraider 14 https://www.thepisteoffice.com/index.php/the-piste-office-store/alpine-touring-bindings/atk-bindings/freeraider-14-535-detail.html Or there's the superb but now discontinued Dynafit Beast 14 but they're over double the weight and don't have a flat walk mode, plus there's no spare parts for the heals available. And you'll need to fit the heel bracket to your boots but that's not an issue. Myself & Sport Conrad bought all the remaining production a good few years ago. I'm now sold out but they still have a few 105mm width left for boogerall money https://www.sport-conrad.com/en/products/dynafit/beast-14-inkl-105-mm-stopper.html
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| EuanFraser wrote: |
| Does anybody know if you could ski short descents with the pin toe locked out? I'm looking for a binding that has this functionality for skiing in no fall terrain.... |
No you can't as the heel binding can't be engaged to lock the heel down - so you'd be in telemark mode - not what you'd want in those circumstances. Same with the Shift and the Cast Freetour system.
You need a binding that has pins toe & rear to do that. If you're after a high din bomber construction tech binding with great power transmission with the ability to lock the toes out and comes in at under 380g then look no further than the 20/21 ATK Freeraider 14 https://www.thepisteoffice.com/index.php/the-piste-office-store/alpine-touring-bindings/atk-bindings/freeraider-14-535-detail.html Or there's the superb but now discontinued Dynafit Beast 14 but they're over double the weight and don't have a flat walk mode, plus there's no spare parts for the heals available. And you'll need to fit the heel bracket to your boots but that's not an issue. Myself & Sport Conrad bought all the remaining production a good few years ago. I'm now sold out but they still have a few 105mm width left for boogerall money https://www.sport-conrad.com/en/products/dynafit/beast-14-inkl-105-mm-stopper.html |
I expected that this was the case, thanks for your explanation. I've been skiing the Beast 14 for a few seasons now and overall have been pretty happy with it. After a day on the dukes though I did notice a difference in the downhill performance. It reminded me of that direct and solid feel of alpine bindings that I hadn't felt in a long while. I'm tempted to go a different route this year than the pin rear and toe setup. I've heard good things about the shift and seen a few videos on the new B.A.M Pindung. Any thoughts?
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@EuanFraser, I don't thing the Pindung has made it to market yet. Basically it's too late, too heavy & too expensive so can't see it happening.
The Shift is superb (providing it's set-up correctly) and has taken huge market share. In comparison the Duke PT is also too late, too heavy & too expensive. If you're gnarly enough to really need 14, 15, or 16 din or perhaps just a really big guy then maybe it's for you, plus you'll get a bit more vertical elasticity out of the heel (but less at the toe) compared to the Shift but you'll pay a big weight penalty for it. I sell both the Shift and the PT and the Shift is outselling the PT by about 15:1.
And if you really need the 'extra' performance of the PT 16 then you should seriously be considering the Cast Freetour system.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I put a set on my skis a few weeks ago. I have already suffered a failure of the toe piece lever. It snapped off while on a tour. Luckily I was able to click in the alpine toe piece and ski down, but the failure is surprising. The lever was loose prior to the failure and I had already submitted a warranty request through the retailer. I have a new set coming today. Hopefully this is a fluke, but is not encouraging.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Jon.moab wrote: |
| I put a set on my skis a few weeks ago. I have already suffered a failure of the toe piece lever. It snapped off while on a tour. Luckily I was able to click in the alpine toe piece and ski down, but the failure is surprising. The lever was loose prior to the failure and I had already submitted a warranty request through the retailer. I have a new set coming today. Hopefully this is a fluke, but is not encouraging. |
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest, the levers on the set I tried were also loose and I struggled to completely lock out the toes...
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It is definitely a struggle to lock out the toes. The lever is not very stable and should be made of aluminum. Needless to say, I am not impressed with their durability after one month of light use. I am going to return them, which means re-mount on my new skis. Super disappointed with them!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I put a set on my skis a few weeks ago. I have already suffered a failure of the toe piece lever. It snapped off while on a tour. Luckily I was able to click in the alpine toe piece and ski down, but the failure is surprising. The lever was loose prior to the failure and I had already submitted a warranty request through the retailer. I have a new set coming today. Hopefully this is a fluke, but is not encouraging.
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I just experienced the exact same failure; without even touching the toe lever the torsional force of skinning a hard snowpack on a traverse was enough to shear the lever clean. Super bummed because their downhill performance is excellent. I just submitted a warranty request through Marker directly, crossing my fingers that they provide an adequate remedy. Until then, I'd caution anyone taking these out into the backcountry - you're not safe skinning on anything exposed while "locked" into these unless Marker identifies the issue.
https://i.imgur.com/GpHeKru.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/r4wVxl4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BAI0tpa.jpg
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I put a set on my skis a few weeks ago. I have already suffered a failure of the toe piece lever. It snapped off while on a tour. Luckily I was able to click in the alpine toe piece and ski down, but the failure is surprising. The lever was loose prior to the failure and I had already submitted a warranty request through the retailer. I have a new set coming today. Hopefully this is a fluke, but is not encouraging.
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This is exactly what happened to me the other week. Lever wasn't loose though. Now trying to go through the warranty process - did anyone have success with this? Thinking it might be better to get a refund and buy some Shifts...
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Jon.moab, @Briangle, @schlad, Marker had a bad batch of levers (manufacturered by a external supplier) on one of their earlier production runs so it sounds like you've all got one of those. The problem is a manufacturing/material fault issue not a design issue.
In late winter/early spring of 2020 Marker contacted the retailers that had received the effected bindings and supplied them with replacement lower toe assemblies so your supplying retailer should have contacted you and arranged to send you the replacements. Very few of the efffected bindings came in to the UK - I only had 6, half of which hadn't been used yet due to Covid and the other three had been used quite heavily without issue. It appears that if the lever was going to fail it'd happen in the first few uses.
All the PT toes now have a small asterix after the part number on the left hand toe wing, as per this pic:
If you have toe bindings without the asterix at the end of the part number or totally blank (ie no number at all) then you should get your supplying Marker retailer to exchange them - although if you've already used them quite a bit without issue then they're probably fine, but I'd still swap 'em anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@spyderjon
Thanks so much for this - super insightful.
Mine don't have a part number, so must be part of that batch. I hadn't been contacted by my retailer sadly  . Would have massively improved my trip...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I am glad to hear Marker acknowledged the issue. Candidly, I pulled the bindings and returned them. The failure experienced was enough to completely turn me off from these bindings. I have a set of Shifts now mounted and haven’t looked back.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Definitely happy that Marker has found the source of the issue; a bit disappointed that the way I'm finding out is on a public forum 1 year later. 
I ended up RMAing the broken bindings and getting some Moment Voyager 14's (ATK Freeraider 14s) and they're a dream - I'll consider getting another pair of the Duke PTs in 1-2 years if these new toe pieces continue to work for people.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Briangle wrote: |
| Definitely happy that Marker has found the source of the issue; a bit disappointed that the way I'm finding out is on a public forum 1 year later. |
Blame your retailer. Marker found the problem really quickly and acted on it immediately.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Son ejected today and heel piece has sheered off rather than released. On the flat in Le fornrt and said no impact to binding.
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FAQ
. I was just complaining that I had to fork out for yet another jig!