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Small/low DIN touring bindings

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
In anticipation of some COVID-induced changes in skiing next year, plus my daughter being very keen to try touring this year but not being able to rent skis short enough (140), I'm thinking of getting her a touring setup.

Binding-wise, is there anything apart from a Marker F10 tour that meets these two requirements:
270-290mm BSL (allowing growing room)
DIN that goes down to 3

And, if anyone has some cheap secondhand F10s or anything else that meets the spec, please shout!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dynafit Rotation 7 goes down to 2.5 DIN and can mount for any sole length you like
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
In frame bindings there's the Marker F10, Fritschi Scout, Tyrolia Ambition 10 and the Hagan Z 02. I'm presuming that you'd want brakes so in tech bindings with brakes there's the Dynafit Rotation 7 (as stated above) and the ATK Crest 8.

Issues to watch with frame bindings are that the frames have a fixed length designed for adult skis that may be too long for a short junior length ski causing the front toe and rear heel mounting locations to be outside of the reinforced area in the ski. The mounting screw lengths on all of the above bindings are for adult skis so when installing on a thinner junior ski will also usually be too long so their length will likely need reducing. This also gives reduced pull-out strength which isn't an issue in a tech binding but can be in with a frame binding in tour mode if (when) your daughter has a 'knee fall'.

Boots also need to be a good fit to not only give accurate/consistent release values but also any 'growing room' will likely casue blisters when skinning.
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@snowrider, @spyderjon, thanks for that, much appreciated.

I hadn't thought about the length/separation of the mounting points - is there any way to know in advance what the size of the reinforced zone on a ski is? And are any of those bindings shorter than the others, to make them more likely to fit?

[Edited to add - I've just looked at them all - the Hagan Z 02 comes in a specific junior size and looks like a good option - any specific thoughts on the relative merits of this one?]

The only two reasonably priced (so I can afford to buy ones that fit well, in anticipation of your boot sizing point!) kids touring boots I'm aware of are the Rossi Alltrack and the Tecnica Cochise (my son uses the Tecnica and loves them), neither of which have pin mounts, so I think I'm restricted to frame bindings.

Thanks, Dave
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Lange are doing a Junior touring boot with pin mounts next season. Smallest size is a 23.0
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@snowdave, how tall/heavy is your daughter and what's her mondo size?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@snowrider, thanks, will look at that.

@spyderjon, currently 135cm/30kg (so maybe 140/33kg next season), mondo 23.5 in a Lange RS70 (I know mondo is supposedly consistent, but...)

It looks like broadly 2 choices, tho' interested in any alternatives (e.g. cheap & light!)

"Cheap" but heavy (both in a relative sense): hagan z 02, rossi alltrack or Cochise. c.£200-250
Expensive but light: Rotation 7, pin boot (small womens, new Lange, Cochise DYN), c. £500

Plus skis and skins, whichever way I do it, likely to be c. £200.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Salomon are releasing are 4-10 DIN version of the shift this year:

https://www.salomon.com/en-us/shop/product/s-lab-shift-mnc-10.html#color=19783

It won't be cheap but it has several big benefits over your other options, it can genuinely be used as her her only binding, if her boots get bigger you can always remount to suit the new length and I would imagine that it is likely to hold its resale value much better than the slightly obscure frame bindings listed above
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@rambotion, thanks, DIN 4 is probably too high, which is a pity as otherwise it would be a reasonable option for a "forever" binding going forwards (albeit would probably change my "expensive" option to being £600+, maybe I'll suggest no lift pass for her next year Happy ).
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@snowdave, I've been looking at a similar issue to you. There is one place that I have found that rents touring gear for smaller people

http://legend-chamonix.com/black-crows-magnis/

The plum guide XS goes down to a DIN of 3.5 which they reckon is suitable for skiers of 35 kg and over so it might just about be suitable. Min ski length of 149, again bordering suitability and you would have to email them about boot size but the one they have in stock does theoretically go down mondo point 21.5.
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@rambotion, thanks, I think she's just a year or two early for that stuff in terms of size and DIN - if I put her on a ski that's too long/heavy I risk putting her off, and 149 would be a bit of a struggle; her GS skis are 140 and were spot on this season. In Black Crows terms, she's still very much a Junius rather than a Magnis.

Good to know that legend rents smaller kit tho', as we have friends who's young teenage kids might want to try it as well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
There's way too much delta angle on the Plum Guide XS, especially with a short boot length.

ATK Crest 8 is a far better option than the Rotation 7. Its 280g versus 613g (which is a huge saving, especially for a junior) and a lot easier to use as for most skinning the heel doesn't need to be rotated.
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@spyderjon, thanks for that. Any view on how close to an Alpine binding the ATK is in downhill mode? I'm particularly thinking of consistency of DIN release at the bottom end of its settings.

The weight issue, as you identify, is non-trivial for a junior. Her skis, boots, skins will potentially be close to 20% of body weight (!).
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@snowdave, I've torque tested a couple of Crest 8 bindings and their functionality met the alpine binding standards. Tech bindings like the Crest/Rotation (ie with lateral & vertical release in the heel) are however different to alpine bindings and it's important to note that your daughter will have reduced protection against a tib/fib fracture compared to an alpine binding but will have better protection against a soft tissue injury (ie ACL/MCL).
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@snowdave, for short tours I used these with my son https://www.sportsprofi.com/en/Sports/Touring/Touring-skies-care/Skin-care/Skin-glue-Contour-75ml-tube-oxid.html

Maybe this year I’ll get some frame bindings though.
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@Themasterpiece, thanks, I started out with that very option, but worried that they’d be so heavy and uncomfortable (without touring boots) that I’d put her off as she’d find it all very slow and hard work.

Then it became “for just another...” £60 more than the contour + skins and I could proper use touring bindings... now I’m looking at pin boots etc!

I did see a great YouTube of someone who’d made a track binding adaptor for dynafit toes and retrofitted pin mounts into his kids boots, so his kid could go up on pins, swap the binding toe piece and come down on alpine!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The cheapest but far from best solution is these:

https://www.skibartlett.com/ski-equipment-c1/ski-bindings-c8/touring-bindings-c109/contour-startup-touring-adaptor-for-kids-p17567/s83606?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=contour-startup-touring-adaptor-for-kids-colour-grey-blue-size-245m-colour-grey-blue-size-245mm-305mm-79798-10773963&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&cid=GBP&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInYyEsfCj6QIVluvtCh1XiAL8EAYYAiABEgJVtfD_BwE
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@snowrider, thanks, yes I think that's the same device that @Themasterpiece, has linked to, and about which I worry that it'll be a classic "buy cheap buy twice" from my perspective.
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@snowdave, they are ok for a short, 30 minute, tour in a straight-ish route. Wouldn’t want to try anything too steep or a lot of traversing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Themasterpiece, useful feedback, thanks, they’re definitely off the list! I’m not sure we’ll do much steep (not least because of avi danger), but we might go a long way.
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