 Poster: A snowHead
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@michaelski I just wondered if you could assist? In these days of everything being on line we are seeing a lot of skiers referring back to their policy documents in the form of a url link as these days people don't print out. Now, I'm sure you can guess where I am going with this. Links point to information that can be changed. So how can the insured be certain that their policy hasn't been altered in favour of the supplier and at the expense of the end user?
Covid-19 was only officially recognised and named by the WHO on 11th February 2020, and I sure that insurance providers would have taken some time to act upon this too. Therefore where a policy was purchased prior to this date and the link they bought from now specifically names Covid-19 we can argue that the policy, and therefore contract, has been illegally amended.
I have seen one ski insurance supplier (not MPI as they are a great company) that appears to have done this; the link that they use takes you to a PDF and this PDF is dated March 2020 but no specific date is on it. I have seen many others using links too and we have to question the validity of this situation. The policy must remain unchanged and if there are addenda then these must be separate and dated surely? the links should be to " Policies purchased before xxx" and "policies purchased after XXX" etc.
Thanks all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Welcome to SHs. We've had these discussions before - not least when busloads of people on their way to a Snowheads Bash found themselves diverted, because of heavy snow, and staying in hotels which wanted paying. In a place with little or no internet access - so unable to refer to their travel insurance to see what might be covered. It is daft to rely on always being able to get good internet access - and even dafter when you have signed up to an important contract and need to have confidence that its terms won't be unilaterally changed.
Paper copies of all really important documents make sense.
With some documents, especially very long ones, I don't print them out, but I download a copy and back it up!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Anyone with any sense will either download or print off the full T&C's at the time of purchase.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@spyderjon, +1
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Having just made a claim after a skiing accident, I'd also say it really makes sense to have as much with you, on paper, as possible. At a minimum the main policy, contact numbers and policy ID, and ideally, the whole Ts+Cs. Leave this at your accommodation, and make sure someone else in the group knows where it is so they can act on your behalf if you're incapacitated. We had a good experience with our insurer (LV=) who actually organised a lot on our behalf and because of their industry contacts, it was much better to leave it to them. They also had some good advice for the person on the ground helping my wife in terms of making sure they got various documents like a hospital discharge report that said she was explicitly fit to fly.
Carrying your EHIC on your person is obviously absolutely essential.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Anyone with any sense will either download or print off the full T&C's at the time of purchase. |
I would bet that there are a huge amount that rely on the link - especially when policy working is in excess of 60 pages in many cases. It may seem like common sense to you but a great proportion of the younger generation operate paperless and will rely on their provider to be honest. regardless, do you really keep paper contracts for everything? Water, rates, insurance, gas, tv, sky, internet, tax, electricity, gas, etc?
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| LaForet wrote: |
Having just made a claim after a skiing accident, I'd also say it really makes sense to have as much with you, on paper, as possible. At a minimum the main policy, contact numbers and policy ID, and ideally, the whole Ts+Cs. Leave this at your accommodation, and make sure someone else in the group knows where it is so they can act on your behalf if you're incapacitated. We had a good experience with our insurer (LV=) who actually organised a lot on our behalf and because of their industry contacts, it was much better to leave it to them. They also had some good advice for the person on the ground helping my wife in terms of making sure they got various documents like a hospital discharge report that said she was explicitly fit to fly.
Carrying your EHIC on your person is obviously absolutely essential. |
Isn't that obsolete come December 31st?
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@Snowfinders, maybe it is my age then. But I print most stuff like this if not immediately then at least before travel. I always download and save locally, and take screen shots of bookings if I don’t get an email straight away. However others often call me paranoid.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| @Snowfinders, maybe it is my age then. But I print most stuff like this if not immediately then at least before travel. I always download and save locally, and take screen shots of bookings if I don’t get an email straight away. However others often call me paranoid. |
wise to do so and I think I will be doing in future.
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| Quote: |
a great proportion of the younger generation operate paperless and will rely on their provider to be honest
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Hmm. Would it even be too much of a stretch to download a copy? It's not THAT unusual to find yourself somewhere without good reception, especially if you like to travel off-the-beaten-track. And what about having to rely on somebody to help you - give them your smartphone and all your passwords?
Or what if you're one of the many people who drop their phone off a chairlift? I found an expensive iphone in the middle of the piste once.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Snowfinders, is right in that lots of people seem to rely on electronic copies. We turned up to collect our hire car in Norway. Long slow queue, got to the front the relief of the lady that we had all the documentation printed out. There computer system was down and the delays were down to everybody just having the reference stuff on the their phones and reference numbers only
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well either the insurance company changed the document "under your feet", which would be illegal, or they didn't. I doubt they'd do that, and I doubt even more that they'd get away with it.
As far as clauses in documents no one reads, like the "user license agreement" for the software I'm using to type... it doesn't really matter to me what they say, either they are reasonable or they're not... Unreasonable clauses wouldn't work, written down or otherwuse.
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| Snowfinders wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| Anyone with any sense will either download or print off the full T&C's at the time of purchase. |
I would bet that there are a huge amount that rely on the link - especially when policy working is in excess of 60 pages in many cases. It may seem like common sense to you but a great proportion of the younger generation operate paperless and will rely on their provider to be honest. regardless, do you really keep paper contracts for everything? Water, rates, insurance, gas, tv, sky, internet, tax, electricity, gas, etc? |
I haven't keep paper contracts for years but I download'n'save the T&C's at the time of purchase/renewal on all my insurance policies (car, home, travel, package holidays etc) and my kids do as well 'cause I trained them to do it. My son's a Contracts Mgr/QS and my daughter's a Solicitor so they check everything!! I don't bother with the other services you've listed as there's really no risk with those &/or their cost is relatively insignificant.
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You know it makes sense.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Snowfinders wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| Anyone with any sense will either download or print off the full T&C's at the time of purchase. |
I would bet that there are a huge amount that rely on the link - especially when policy working is in excess of 60 pages in many cases. It may seem like common sense to you but a great proportion of the younger generation operate paperless and will rely on their provider to be honest. regardless, do you really keep paper contracts for everything? Water, rates, insurance, gas, tv, sky, internet, tax, electricity, gas, etc? |
I haven't keep paper contracts for years but I download'n'save the T&C's at the time of purchase/renewal on all my insurance policies (car, home, travel, package holidays etc) and my kids do as well 'cause I trained them to do it. My son's a Contracts Mgr/QS and my daughter's a Solicitor so they check everything!! I don't bother with the other services you've listed as there's really no risk with those &/or their cost is relatively insignificant. |
Well done, you've obviously done a great job in bringing them up. I salute your eye for detail and parenting skills. My OP wasn't intended to highlight anyone's greater astuteness or to demean those that may be victims to sharp practice. The purpose of the post was to highlight that people may be being misled illegally. Have you any insight into that as that is my question?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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See https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/ICOBS.pdf - insurance is a regulated industry, with reporting requirements and a code of conduct. If an insurer changes their policy wording, the wording in force at the time of taking out the policy is part of the contract, and they cannot change it retrospectively. What they _can_ do is change it for new business, or they can add an explanatory note which points out that their cover specifically says that travel against FCO advice is not covered, or that the exclusions specifically list claims arising as a result of a pandemic.
If you are sure that you were covered and now the wording says you are not, ask them for a copy of the document with a publication date from before your contract started. They will be able to provide a copy on request. If in doubt, the insurance ombudsman will be able to force them to do so, and if they cannot, their business is likely to be closed down and your claim will likely not be contested.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| @Snowfinders, maybe it is my age then. But I print most stuff like this if not immediately then at least before travel. I always download and save locally, and take screen shots of bookings if I don’t get an email straight away. However others often call me paranoid. |
Glad it's not just me with the screenshots  doesn't everyone download policies?
I always get emails notifying of any changes to policy. Last one was early March telling me there would be no cover for covid-19 pandemic related issues for trips booked after 18/03/2020. Included link to pdf of policy to replace old one. This is just standard stuff, they aren't allowed to just alter terms without notifying customers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kittya wrote: |
| NickyJ wrote: |
| @Snowfinders, maybe it is my age then. But I print most stuff like this if not immediately then at least before travel. I always download and save locally, and take screen shots of bookings if I don’t get an email straight away. However others often call me paranoid. |
Glad it's not just me with the screenshots doesn't everyone download policies?
I always get emails notifying of any changes to policy. Last one was early March telling me there would be no cover for covid-19 pandemic related issues for trips booked after 18/03/2020. Included link to pdf of policy to replace old one. This is just standard stuff, they aren't allowed to just alter terms without notifying customers. |
Was this Nationwide Flexplus? I received that on the 20th March. Which I thought seemed a little dodgy given it was two days AFTER the date of change. Though flip side I wasn’t actually expecting it cover due to the “know of any reason which you may need to cancel” wording. Nb i booked flights on the 18th March!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Take a photo.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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