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Ski Club of Great Britain Chief Exec resigns

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Where it is stored is immaterial - you are the data controller because it is in your account.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Plus emails are automatically considered private correspondence and therefore you need either permission to publish them, or a public interest defence. And believe me, the public really isn’t interested.

If DG denies sending it, can you prove that he did? Hint: you’ll need a verified digital signature from a key which is incontrovertibly his, or access to ISP logs from 6+ years ago plus a very good lawyer and a technically competent judge and jury. In other words, it’s not worth the paper it isn’t printed on
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
philwig wrote:
Well I find it amusing.


It's hilarious!

Quote:
Is it that this specific club attracts grown men who ...


Stop it, I'm dying now Laughing Laughing Laughing
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
ousekjarr wrote:
Plus emails are automatically considered private correspondence and therefore you need either permission to publish them, or a public interest defence. And believe me, the public really isn’t interested.

If DG denies sending it, can you prove that he did? Hint: you’ll need a verified digital signature from a key which is incontrovertibly his, or access to ISP logs from 6+ years ago plus a very good lawyer and a technically competent judge and jury. In other words, it’s not worth the paper it isn’t printed on


I think my internet provider’s email servers provide ample proof that he sent them.

Sorry to be a whistleblower to another bout of Goldsmith‘s lies. It must be very upsetting for you to see him slaughtered publicly again.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Ah @Gerry, it is clear that you didn't take the hint. I'm not a supporter of DG (who is?), but then neither am I a fan of you either. The presence of a piece of text on a mail server simply says that someone sent it. Could have been DG, could have been me, could even have been you or one of those nice people in Nigeria with lots of cash to share around the globe if you simply pay for the bank transfer fees in advance.

I find it ironic that what you think of as evidence against DG is actually evidence of you doing something you really shouldn't be doing. But then your online activities don't necessarily paint a picture of someone with a firm grasp on anything. The best explanation of why I'd not join SCGB is that any club which has you as a council member is clearly not the sort of club worth joining.
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ousekjarr wrote:
Ah @Gerry, it is clear that you didn't take the hint. I'm not a supporter of DG (who is?), but then neither am I a fan of you either. The presence of a piece of text on a mail server simply says that someone sent it. Could have been DG, could have been me, could even have been you or one of those nice people in Nigeria with lots of cash to share around the globe if you simply pay for the bank transfer fees in advance.

I find it ironic that what you think of as evidence against DG is actually evidence of you doing something you really shouldn't be doing. But then your online activities don't necessarily paint a picture of someone with a firm grasp on anything. The best explanation of why I'd not join SCGB is that any club which has you as a council member is clearly not the sort of club worth joining.


Emails really aren’t all that complicated to understand. He sent them. I mean, he’ll deny he did, but then he can’t really claim that I’ve disclosed something he denies even sending, now can he? I wonder if you actually have much of a grip on reality.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Alastair Pink wrote:


No wish to intrude on this thread, but LMFAO...
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
And then of course you have the situation where an individual is telling lies about a company in public and the company produces email proof from that individual that they are lying.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 18-10-20 20:18; edited 1 time in total
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Gerry, PM me an email address which you have access to - doesn't have to be your real one, you can create a temporary one specifically for the purpose. Once you do, I can guarantee you that you'll have an email from God himself in it within 5 minutes of me picking up the PM, and it will contain a copy of this post to persuade you that it's not just a coincidence.

In other words, for skier, it's a little embarrassing to find that you don't have a leg to stand on. Hint 2: I have 30 years experience in the IT industry up to senior levels, including in data protection including GDPR, HIPAA, SOX and PCIDSS, IT security, privacy and security litigation. Don't bluster and try to bully your way out when you are clearly wrong. If you want to be educated, start here: https://blog.finjan.com/what-is-non-repudiation/
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Gerry wrote:
And then of course you have the situation where an individual is telling lies about a company in pubic....


I don't think the discussion should go into that area.... Madeye-Smiley
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Alastair Pink, Yeah, things could get a bit hairy.....
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Alastair Pink wrote:


Did they fire Cookie Monster Sad
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Gerry wrote:
And then of course you have the situation where an individual is telling lies about a company in public and the company produces email proof from that individual that they are lying.


So what you are saying (or rather confirming) is that you consider the contents of your personal email archive to be 'the company producing email proof etc' and therefore, if I were DG I would be asking for that to be included in the SAR.

I think it's a big red flag to other members, or potential members, that a Director of the club is happy to publicly admit he has company records held on his own personal email account. Who knows what data you have there? The Chairman needs to act on this.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Jehu wrote:
I cancelled my direct debit for Ski Club of Great Britain a few weeks ago and my membership lapses this month. I am sure that if I want to rejoin the sinking ship, eg to buy the new travel insurance or a Freshtracks holiday they will take money even from a rat like me. Covid will probably prevent me from skiing or travelling for at least 12 months anyway. It's all very sad.


+1 us too.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Pruman, I think we’ve heard enough about SARs this year; more on the battle of farcebook and any flame wars pls. Ta v much.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Interesting thread - with sadly a lot of good reasons not to be "in" or stay "in" the Ski Club. For me good governance, openness, engagement and a respect for others are fundamental in any club I want to be a member of. The Club's challenges are very sincere - we won't get a Council that can address these while the type of nonsense you see from some here and on Facebook can obscure the issues, needs and solutions, and for as long as groupthink trumps realism and effective action. Tragic that those with skills and commitment can be ousted from the club for the sake of ego and an obsession with hiding the problem and silencing challenging views, however constructive. I have said the interim Chairman has acted wrongfully, and that this is very harmful for the club and its accountability, but I have decided against airing the whole story in public. Its not my problem any more, and like many others the joy has gone, perhaps it can return in future. However for members who still want to know (for constructive reasons) the underlying governance issues , and my view as to why this undermines the club please pm me.
PS: I agree this thread is amusing for its nonsense and echos. Many here will not be surprised to see the Ski Club continue to implode. For me there is great sadness in the loss, so a little difficult to laugh at.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

...the joy has gone, perhaps it can return in future....


I dare say it can, but only 1 wo/man can deliver!

Wurzel Goldsmith
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
Goldsmith for President
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
"That would be a conflict of interest. How could I maintain integrity as el Presidenté of the very thing I've dedicated my life to criticising?"

http://youtube.com/v/I3fF91jGdPM
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^^^^ that’s really terrific whoever did that. I quite liked Caroline. At least in her days there was some oooomph and she had a very good team around her who went all out for the club. That positive energy simply does not exist there anymore. Go on to the events page on the website and there is absolutely zilch going on – meanwhile, despite restrictions, the likes of Warren Smith is managing to put on a nationwide tour and others are offering things like dry land transceiver training. Outreach like that should be bread and butter for a national ski club. A year ago this very weekend I remember seeing the club team on their stand at the ski show in Battersea – it was pathetic frankly, no serious attempt to engage with the audience, sell the benefits, sign people up and at least leave a great impression. The decline was self-evident then.

pisteoff wrote:
Tragic that those with skills and commitment can be ousted from the club for the sake of ego and an obsession with hiding the problem and silencing challenging views, however constructive.

The silencing of challenging views is why I post my observations on here – I know it gets looked at but I can’t get pulled into punishment beatings. People criticise Goldsmith but all he has done over the years is point out many uncomfortable home truths. They don't like to hear it and fear the free skiing gravy train might dry up - which it just has!


pisteoff wrote:
lot of good reasons not to be "in" or stay "in" the Ski Club......

…..the joy has gone, perhaps it can return in future.....

….For me there is great sadness in the loss, so a little difficult to laugh at.....

Right now there are almost NO reasons to remain a member (take a look at the list of 'benefits') and, if it were me in charge, this is something I would be attacking vigorously. We all know its tough but adapt or die! At least try.

The joy won’t return. Nobody loves it. It’s a dead duck waddling. The model is all wrong, no longer fit for purpose and the council is reckless in not addressing it. And I think reckless is a good word for it.


The 2020 Report and Accounts are due any day now. They, we are told, will show another huge loss (was it £1.1million?). And then we should best assume 2021 will be almost a non-season – so it’s a club with almost no reasons to remain a member, that currently has no insurance product to sell (the only net profitable item last year), that has shelved all the early season trips and could easily need to shelve the whole shebang, that seems to have no plan of action for the here and now, that faces a massive drop in income but carrying high overheads like the office space. Much will get blamed on Covid but the damage was done long before we'd heard of it. The AGM could be fun!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Nothing to look forward to except for yesterday,
SCGB I'd like to know how life turned out this way.

Maybe time just ran its course. I developed my enthusiasm for off-piste skiing with reps in tho old days - I simply don't think that either modern legislation or the public's perception of acceptable risk could allow them now. Don't forget that snowHeads was born through the crucible of intense debate on the issue.

Another driver of the rep system was the reps' snow reports - the need for them went with CEEFAX; in these days of social media they are no longer needed. One way and another the reps provided the glue that kept the Club together, IMV. If you were on your own at a resort, they were a point of contact which helped you find others, or made suggestions - I first tasted ski touring thanks to rep putting me in touch with a a guide taking out a group. The evening gathering was a great place for sorting out what you could do the next day. And I had meany enjoyable days skiing with the rep's group. It got to the stage that a resort having a rep was a major plus.

But the reps have had their time, and IMV no reps (as we knew them) = no club. Losing millions more is pointless. The Club should probably be dissolved, and the assets (if any are left) distributed amongst the membership (and as I have long ceased to be a membership, that suggestion is definitely not for my gain).


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sat 24-10-20 21:54; edited 1 time in total
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
It goes further than the Supreme Council. All levels below them and every member is to blame for their stubborn narrow mindedness in NOT selecting Goldsmith as CEO. Blinded by prejudice no doubt.

Furthermore, anyone who refuses to let him run for elections are enemies of freedom and democracy.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I guess they might rise from the ashes with a compelling offer incorporating insurance and assured travel at a reasonable price to save the season for many British skiers. With the TO world shaken to the core by Brexit and COVID this is a year like no other for an agile progressive "business" to seize the opportunity and make the most of it.


Well either that or a continuing dumpster fire.....
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
...
this is a year like no other for an agile progressive "business" man to seize the opportunity and make the most of it...


FIFY
We all know the wo/man they need!
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Pruman wrote:
I quite liked Caroline.

Me too. A lady with boundless humour and energy. Great skier. Ultimately, though, Caroline didn't possess the skill set to turn the organisation around, or strike a cord with the core community of c.1m British skiers (and that includes Scottish skiers!) skiers.

Pruman wrote:
Right now there are almost NO reasons to remain a member (take a look at the list of 'benefits') and, if it were me in charge, this is something I would be attacking vigorously. We all know its tough but adapt or die! At least try.

Pruman for president. Or commander-in-chief. Or minister (paymaster-general) of skiing and apres-ski.

Pruman wrote:
The 2020 Report and Accounts are due any day now. They, we are told, will show another huge loss (was it £1.1million?).

Yes, incredibly, it's predicted that the bulk of the proceeds of the sale of the SCGB's clubhouse/HQ in Wimbledon - £3.8m in 2017 - will have gone by the end of this year.

Pruman wrote:
... seems to have no plan of action for the here and now, that faces a massive drop in income but carrying high overheads like the office space. Much will get blamed on Covid but the damage was done long before we'd heard of it.

Yes, Covid has clearly made things much worse, but the lack of a viable provable plan of action - particularly in the field of publishing, digital media and social media - is a real shocker.

achilles wrote:
IMV no reps (as we knew them) = no club.

Not at all. In modern times the Club's reps never catered for more than 10% of the membership. One has to identify the common denominators.

As the SCGB's founders realised in 1905 - 2 years after the start of the Club - the key to uniting, informing and progressing the membership is PUBLISHING AND COMMUNICATION. In 2020 that means the full array of news, information, advice on where to go skiing, exchange of experience and expertise, events, meet-ups ... all knitted together by electronic media and social media.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
"Yes, incredibly, it's predicted that the bulk of the proceeds of the sale of the SCGB's clubhouse/HQ in Wimbledon - £3.8m in 2017 - will have gone by the end of this year."

Yes, and to think that they'd sold Eaton Square, just a few years earlier, and moved to Wimbledon, partly to have more cash in the bank... which has also now long since disappeared. Millions squandered, it seems... Sad.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
stephen buck wrote:
"Yes, incredibly, it's predicted that the bulk of the proceeds of the sale of the SCGB's clubhouse/HQ in Wimbledon - £3.8m in 2017 - will have gone by the end of this year."

Yes, and to think that they'd sold Eaton Square, just a few years earlier, and moved to Wimbledon, partly to have more cash in the bank... which has also now long since disappeared. Millions squandered, it seems... Sad.


Basically, when enough people have their noses in the trough in a situation like this, there is no collective motivation to do anything about it when they realises the trough is becoming empty. Rather than thinking "Let's all think about how to refill the trough", each one is thinking to themselves "I need to eat quickly to get more of whats left".
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Pruman wrote:
I quite liked Caroline.


Showed a complete lack of empathy towards me. I was glad to see her go. Laughing Laughing
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
jellylegs wrote:
Pruman wrote:
I quite liked Caroline.


Showed a complete lack of empathy towards me. I was glad to see her go. Laughing Laughing


Yes, I felt she enjoyed being amongst her cronies, but was only civil at best, and cool and off-hand-ish at worst, to the rest of us... But agree that she did have some spark and spunk about her... if you'll pardon the exprsession wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
stephen buck wrote:
jellylegs wrote:
Pruman wrote:
I quite liked Caroline.


Showed a complete lack of empathy towards me. I was glad to see her go. Laughing Laughing


Yes, I felt she enjoyed being amongst her cronies, but was only civil at best, and cool and off-hand-ish at worst, to the rest of us... But agree that she did have some spark and spunk about her... if you'll pardon the exprsession wink


Well, it was CST who made the repping more inclusive. No more off-piste elitists commandeering the rep just because there was some powder. No, all ability levels (excluding beginners) would get at least two days in the weekly programme.

Personally, I never found Caroline to be snooty at all.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Davina Goldballs wrote:


As the SCGB's founders realised in 1905 - 2 years after the start of the Club - the key to uniting, informing and progressing the membership is PUBLISHING AND COMMUNICATION. In 2020 that means the full array of news, information, advice on where to go skiing, exchange of experience and expertise, events, meet-ups ... all knitted together by electronic media and social media.


the problem is, no one is going to pay for that.

I think the SCGB people are right, the ship is sinking, best to bilk the bank balance for a bit of free skiing then move on.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
davidof wrote:


I think the SCGB people are right, the ship is sinking, best to bilk the bank balance for a bit of free skiing then move on.


Hmm - so anyone actually taking the job of CEO now knows the ship is sinking and therefore their interests are in extracting the maximum cash for themself rather than saving the ship and crew (members). Can see the only way of ensuring that is not the case is appointing a CEO who has independent means and is willing to work for free for the good of the club.
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@davidof, ^This^. No one is going to turn around a £1m pound annual loss before the money runs out, with no obvious profit generating activity ( Still no insurance offering yet ? ). Just use up the rest of the cash and move on.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Simple solutions - sublet, renegotiate or terminate the office lease and take the hit now, cut the employed staff to 4 or less working from home with benefits, membership and finance being the core of that, then get a general manager on £50K basic salary plus up to 200% bonus based on achieving targets such as reducing losses in year 1 to £0.5m then turning a profit of £0.25m annually thereafter, increasing membership by at least 10%, improving visibility of the organisation by 10% annually until half of skiers have heard of it and as measured by industry and dry slope/snow dome surveys, getting members to check in via an app (in return for bonus points towards a holiday or guide discount) for each day they are in a resort to identify whether they choose the resort based on SCGB rep presence or not and how many of them are active skiers and for how many days per year, and so on. Verify the assumptions about why people join, why they stay, and what they want. Also verify why people don't join, or don't renew. Listen to that feedback, and change where possible to meet the needs of the current generation.

Offer a vastly reduced rep service for one year, only to people willing to pay for using it, and measure the value of it in real terms. Survey the membership to see what they actually want. Offer different levels of membership based on what you have access to - silver for membership card and website/app access including newsletters, gold for holiday access or insurance included, platinum to add rep/guide access - and see what levels people are prepared to pay for. Offer mid-season upgrades if they change their mind.

Publish the membership numbers and breakdown - how many adult members, how many children, how many paying full price, how many discounted, locations, demographics, rep days, skier days per rep, etc, etc. The first step to dealing with a problem is to acknowledge that you have a problem.

At the moment the organisation needs a survival plan. Pretty soon it will need a resurrection plan, as it will have become insolvent. That resolves the office lease problem, but doesn't address the continuing needs of the membership. Maybe though that's what it needs - to fail, and be replaced by something more relevant, agile, and organised. Something fit for the 21st century
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ousekjarr wrote:


Offer a vastly reduced rep service for one year, only to people willing to pay for using it, and measure the value of it in real terms. Survey the membership to see what they actually want. Offer different levels of membership based on what you have access to - silver for membership card and website/app access including newsletters, gold for holiday access or insurance included, platinum to add rep/guide access - and see what levels people are prepared to pay for. Offer mid-season upgrades if they change their mind.

Publish the membership numbers and breakdown - how many adult members, how many children, how many paying full price, how many discounted, locations, demographics, rep days, skier days per rep, etc, etc. The first step to dealing with a problem is to acknowledge that you have a problem.

At the moment the organisation needs a survival plan. Pretty soon it will need a resurrection plan, as it will have become insolvent. That resolves the office lease problem, but doesn't address the continuing needs of the membership. Maybe though that's what it needs - to fail, and be replaced by something more relevant, agile, and organised. Something fit for the 21st century


It's radical and therefore won't happen but along these lines take a unilateral decision to cut subs to something nominal say £25 pa and make everything pay to play. That might stem the tide of members leaving and/or make them look like good guys in not "profiteering in a crisis" Then without the buffer of assured members income offer something worthwhile and value for money or fold if you can't find the worthwhile.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
... It's radical and therefore won't happen but along these lines take a unilateral decision to cut subs to something nominal say £25 pa and make everything pay to play. ...
wink
The problem may be that all the people who care about it are wedded to their subsidised holidays,
so it's unlikely that a change is going to be driven by them.

There is probably space for a true membership organisation (like the BMC or CTC/Cycling UK),
but those in charge haven't shown much interest in that sort of model to date. I would not
start from here if that's where I was going.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@philwig, The BMC is the national governing body for competition climbing, the SCGB used to have the same role for skiing but gave it up in 1964.

The equivalents of some other roles of the BMC are filled by Snowsport England, Scotland & Wales.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
It's radical and therefore won't happen but along these lines take a unilateral decision to cut subs to something nominal say £25 pa and make everything pay to play.


Or less radical but just as unlikely, double the membership fee to cover the expenditure/losses. If people are prepared to pay it, they obviously see some value in the organisation. If not, it's time to close.
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rjs wrote:
@philwig, The BMC is the national governing body for competition climbing, the SCGB used to have the same role for skiing but gave it up in 1964.

The equivalents of some other roles of the BMC are filled by Snowsport England, Scotland & Wales.


Competition climbing is a very small part of what the BMC does, and the only aspect which it governs. The main role of the BMC is as the representative body that exists to protect the freedoms and promote the interests of climbers, hill walkers and mountaineers, including ski-mountaineers in England and Wales (SMC does the same for Scotland and Irish Mountaineering Federation covers the whole of Ireland)
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