 Poster: A snowHead
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@mitcva, An example of consequence is not an argument against - the argument that is that in the totality of consequences positive and negative the rosiest of economic consequences is net strongly negative. Brexiteers have never had an answer to this so the trope goes "democracy innit" with a strong side order of "any price is worth paying". It takes no acolytes or conspiracy of views or promotion by admin (who is usually remarkably restrained on the matter) for any number of people to come to the same view.
And yes the consequences for the British skier and ski worker, those that travel or drive into the EU, those that might own property in the EU for that pupose or might intend to in the future are highly relevant in a ski forum. That you were ignorant of the role EHIC plays in allowing a fair slice of skiers access to skiing without prohibitive premiums is hardly a winning argument for your pro Brexit beliefs.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gerry wrote: |
| sH is a business. There’s no way to influence it other than being in the in crowd. sH should be reconstructed as a proper member owned club, with proper memorandum and article. No chance of that though. |
Hmm. I'd call it a benevolent dictatorship rather than a business, but in business terms it comes closest to being a sole trader who can occasionally call in a few favours from his mates. Does Admin make a profit from Snowheads other than free skiing for him as one of the perks? If he does, does anyone other than DG actually care? No-one is forced to participate in the forum, there is no membership fee, bashes are priced well below the commercial equivalents, and there are no members, shareholders or directors to report to if it all goes horribly wrong. Admin shoulders the burden, and takes the financial risk, and everyone who wants to join in seems to get a good deal out of it - though never having been on a bash I'll just take everyone's word for that. I have attended meetups at Hemel, and I've had cheap skiing and a chance to try out new kit for free in return, so I'm happy enough.
Influence is a nebulous thing - I'm not convinced that many people have much influence in how Snowheads is run, since Admin is pretty much laid back (almost to the horizontal) and teflon-coated, so while people can make suggestions and can of course vote with their feet, what they can't do is stand for election, gather a rabble to support them, and then try to leverage the direction of the ship around to their preferred course. On reflection, I think I prefer that approach...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pisteoff wrote: |
| Last year at least reps could still get an extra £100 allowance for travel by train from this fund (some reps waved all travel expenses to support the club when asked last year) |
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Incredible that this £100 dish-out is still going on. At the outset (2005), the SCGB's Environmental Working Group defined that the money was to go to bona-fide environmental charities - The Woodland Trust was to receive about 50% for the SCGB's "long-term tree-planting project" - and other environmental projects. It was NOT for dishing out as yet another dish-out. |
| Gerry wrote: |
| The allowance was made available to offset that extra cost for reps going out to rep for the club. Goldsmith was on the committee that recommended spending the levy in this way. |
No I wasn't. You shouldn't have typed that falsehood. Please go back and correct it.
As a SCGB director you're perfectly placed to check the records, which will clearly show that I left the SCGB Environmental Working Group (as requested) after 3 years. The chair of the group then changed from Sally Cartwright (then chair of the Club) to David Sterland. You need to check the minutes of his meetings which - as I say - I did not attend. They will indicate to you who took the decision to change the beneficiaries of the environmental levy funds.
You and your fellow directors also need to explain how the overall c.£100,000 (over 10 years or more) was allocated. This information is up to 10 years overdue, it concerns quasi-charitable money, some of which was received by the SCGB as donations or purchases of green wristbands etc. etc.
Also, that chairman's report (which is fine within its own terms of reference) does not explain where hundreds of thousands of pounds of SCGB money ended up. I've written a bit about that here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/325182624251298/permalink/2721718391264364
Finally, someone has today informed me (rightly or wrongly) that the SCGB's decision to place the contract publishing of its magazine Ski+Board - a couple of years ago - was not based on a competitive tender from alternative publishers ... but had something to do with a personal relationship of buddies between someone at the SCGB and someone in that company. This may be quite wrong, and I'm not saying either way. This was a highly significant decision, since it outsourced editorial control of the SCGB's principal publication for the first time since 1905, which is when the SCGB began book (and then magazine) publishing.
I'm asking you (a SCGB director) to look into that, simply as a former Council member of the SCGB. Would you do that, please?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Davina Goldballs, I shall look into that. Email me all the evidence. It was an very poor deal for the Club from what I was told.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| mitcva wrote: |
| It seems to me that the personal anti-Brexit views of Admin and various commercial Snowheads acolytes are paraded as though no other opinion is respectable. This sort of intolerance gives the lie to Snowheads being "the friendliest ski club ever." |
I suspect you're not exactly viewing this from a neutral viewpoint, having been antagonistic in response to anyone who disagrees with you. Brexit is divisive, and expecting everyone to just bury their own views and "get with the programme" is a little naive. It seems to me that Snowheads, as a relatively well-off and well-travelled community, is maybe 80% Remain, but that only seems unfriendly to you because you tried to push your views in a way which caused offence, as no-one has set out to link politics to the current SCGB debacle. It's a fact of life that it has been happening in the background, and the only relevance is that those who have been vocal and in some cases offensive in support of Brexit also seem to be those who are defensive and feeling that "we're all out to get them" when we discuss SCGB.
No-one is saying that those who voted for Brexit hold an unrespectable position. Everyone has their own opinion, and is welcome to it. The issue is where those who hold a position which is in the majority in the country find themselves in the minority here, and then claim that a privileged clique are allowed to ride roughshod over their beliefs because no-one is pulling them up for their "undemocratic" views. That's really far from the truth, and in any case outside of the political threads it's not something which becomes relevant unless people like you and Gerry drag it in as a "you're attacking me because I support Brexit" whine. We're not - we're attacking Gerry for being offensive, and bringing up his history of being offensive, and wondering how that reflects on the organisation which he represents.
And actually, we're not a group - we're all individuals, and we all have our own views which cover the political spectrum, but it seems that where most of us agree is that the last 5 years of SCGB history isn't one of glory and riches and exemplary management. If you're feeling that everyone is critical of the SCGB, does that not maybe indicate that there is a genuine problem, and that many people feel disconnected from an organisation which should really be a 99% fit for us as we're the ideal target population for it?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@ousekjarr, sH does suffer badly from group think. Anyone outside of that group think will get hammered no matter what the subject matter. That’s all carried over in the Brexit thread with the ‘you voted wrong’ attitude.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| @ousekjarr, sH does suffer badly from group think. Anyone outside of that group think will get hammered no matter what the subject matter. That’s all carried over in the Brexit thread with the ‘you voted wrong’ attitude. |
What utter garbage. Read any what skis, what resort, what bike thread and you’ll get countless different opinions. Same for almost every other topic.
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| Quote: |
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we're all individuals...
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I’m not!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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 what @BobinCH said... and illustrates exactly the point I posted above
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| @ousekjarr, sH does suffer badly from group think. Anyone outside of that group think will get hammered no matter what the subject matter. That’s all carried over in the Brexit thread with the ‘you voted wrong’ attitude. |
What utter garbage. Read any what skis, what resort, what bike thread and you’ll get countless different opinions. Same for almost every other topic. |
And we all agree on that 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| AL9000 wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| @ousekjarr, sH does suffer badly from group think. Anyone outside of that group think will get hammered no matter what the subject matter. That’s all carried over in the Brexit thread with the ‘you voted wrong’ attitude. |
What utter garbage. Read any what skis, what resort, what bike thread and you’ll get countless different opinions. Same for almost every other topic. |
And we all agree on that |
When it comes to is X a cnut?, the aggregation of individual opinions can of course look a bit like groupthink but correlation is not conspiracy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| ... sH does suffer badly from group think. |
I think you'll find Groupthink is one word not two.
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| philwig wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| ... sH does suffer badly from group think. |
I think you'll find Groupthink is one word not two. |
And this matters why exactly? Actually, I've also noticed that anyone with dyslexia who doesn't conform to groupthink (Chrome doesn't like it as one word) on sH will be attacked more viciously.
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You know it makes sense.
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@philwig, I think you'll find it starts with a lowercase g 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Sorry to interrupt the heart-warming SH / SCGB bonhomie.
| Gerry wrote: |
| Week in Flaine chalet £1265, including off piste instruction (course only £600) and fixed transfers from GVA . Are you sure you understand the true monetary value of things? |
Yes, mainly of cordless vacuum cleaners to be fair, but I also understand that the price does not include flights or lift pass and you have, of course, chosen the lowest week of the low season when there will be more atmosphere on the Moon. So, shall we say more like £1750?
More concerning for the Club must be the level of bookings - The Premier Party is billed as “one of our most popular holidays” yet, according to board minutes, there are only 12 booked on and it may have to be cancelled. Meanwhile, how is the SH bash going for the same week I wonder? French coronavirus spikes and possible quarantine cannot be helping. The Board however seem to be taking heart from the fact Hotelplan (Inghams) are claiming to be 50% booked for the whole season – but that, if true, is 50% of an already mutilated program – they have shed an awful lot of capacity by all accounts and I would take their 50% with a huge pinch of salt. Detecting and not swallowing the BS is rule #1 of being a board director.
I predict a lot of the Freshtracks hols brochured simply can’t and won’t run. Some very odd resort choices which, I can now see from the board minutes, are possibly tied to advertising deals? – Pitztal! Offering 46 resorts is ridiculous IMHO for circa 2,495 passengers.
Consolidation and driving better deals in popular resorts must surely be the key to making it work this season. That would mean less reps and there's a conflict right there.
I still think generally pricey but people pays their money and vote with their feet etc. You’ll know soon enough and I'm willing to be wrong.
| Gerry wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| But it's ok the office lease all falls into the bucket of blame the last guy, not the council who were supervising him/exercising proper scrutiny on behalf of the members. |
CEO Holt and Chairman Bentley at fault there. Both gone now. What would you have done, sacked everyone including the cleaners? |
Being a Director comes with responsibility. £220k x 5 years is over a million smackers – did anyone ask any hard questions and follow up - surely alternative office spaces were discussed - or was everyone fixated on the issues of leading and getting more snow time? It’s about collective responsibility IMV.
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| And yes the consequences for the British skier and ski worker, those that travel or drive into the EU, those that might own property in the EU for that pupose or might intend to in the future are highly relevant in a ski forum. |
Relevant maybe, important for the ski biz yes, but I’m not sure how UK leaving the EU would stop me travelling or driving into the EU 
| Gerry wrote: |
| sH does suffer badly from group think. Anyone outside of that group think will get hammered no matter what the subject matter. That’s all carried over in the Brexit thread with the ‘you voted wrong’ attitude. |
Unfortunately you are pretty much a lone ranger shouting into a waiting hurricane of p155 but nobody here is better than half right at any one moment in time I can assure you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
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nobody here is better than half right at any one moment in time
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WTF...even me??!! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
but I’m not sure how UK leaving the EU would stop me travelling or driving into the EU
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There may well be insurance implications for those with health/age issues which have up to now been covered by our reciprocal arrangements. We shall have to wait and see. Before we joined I would buy an international driving permit (bit of cardboard from the AA or RAC) and health insurance - not a great problem in those days, but I'm not quite so young and fit now 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| @ousekjarr, sH does suffer badly from group think. Anyone outside of that group think will get hammered no matter what the subject matter. That’s all carried over in the Brexit thread with the ‘you voted wrong’ attitude. |
Aso known as the 'Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!' attitude.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Apologies for thread drift but I find these references to the Brexit thread somewhat surreal - I stopped reading it a few years ago because it was so PRO Brexit that it was very bad for my blood pressure....
I'm not venturing back 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Time for a monthly moan.
It's October in case you hadn't noticed. The Club's insurance offering that disappeared at the end of august was slated to reappear:
| Quote: |
| Great news! Ski Club will be launching a fantastic new Insurance package this October ready for the 2020/21 Season. |
Well it hasn't so far and the site still directs people to the old site that says they no longer offer policies to new SCGB customers. I would have thought that by now they would have an exact launch date and would be telling members about it. So, what's happening? Virtually the Club's only money-spinner and its not spinning.
Which brings me neatly onto merchandise. The Club's new merch is now live https://ski-club-shop.myshopify.com/ Please peruse.
Really? Is that the best they can do? A vastly overpriced aluminium water bottle, non-technical gear sold as technical and, again, vastly over-priced. That soft shell jacket has 6mm breathability - an absolute sweat box if ever there was and being sold as a mid layer. And for £55 - I just happen to know jackets like that sell for about £20 via promo merchandise companies - if it's the Gildan jacket I think it is I think it can be had for much much lower than that if you buy a few dozen. The Ski Club of Great Britain should be aiming much more up the technical spectrum don't you think?
Moving on - the club site home page is promoting trips in November and December to France and Switzerland, places that we have to quarantine for and in the case of Switzerland, in both directions. By now I would have thought it obvious that such trips must be in peril as many won't want to quarantine, so why no rethink? Switch to Italy? I know it must be logistically difficult but some action required.
Meanwhile council members continue to invest their energies into bickering on facebook and the club chat room about who is admin etc, can a Mr D Goldsmith be allowed on facebook etc. While Rome burns eh? I can see why the ex CEO, and the one before that, got the hell out.
I guess the annual accounts will be out very soon. That'll be interesting.
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| Quote: |
Meanwhile council members continue to invest their energies into bickering on facebook and the club chat room about who is admin ..
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They seek him here, they seek him there.... 
Can you recommend a decent, breathable soft shell then?
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They've given me a "grace period" until the 15th from my due renewal on the 1st so that I can peruse the new insurance offering and decide if it's right for me. The clock appears to be ticking....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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And whilst there has been a half hearted attempt at allocating 'Reps' it looks as though they're struggling to find volunteers.
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looks as though they're struggling to find volunteers
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Surely Gerry can arrange for some proud lads to sign up?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I cancelled my direct debit for Ski Club of Great Britain a few weeks ago and my membership lapses this month. I am sure that if I want to rejoin the sinking ship, eg to buy the new travel insurance or a Freshtracks holiday they will take money even from a rat like me. Covid will probably prevent me from skiing or travelling for at least 12 months anyway. It's all very sad.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I can see why the ex CEO, and the one before that, got the hell out.
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Erm, no that is a misunderstanding. The ex CEO was a significant part of the problem and would have chosen to stay (while fanning the flames in Rome) - him moving on was an essential step. However of itself it achieves nothing. The challenge for SCGB Council is to turn the Club round. Sadly the 19/20 losses were even higher than the previous year, Covid is a serious problem for the coming year, the 'on-snow' club we all joined has largely disappeared. The Club continues to operate as a £5m business with a volunteer and inexperienced Council, lacking the fundamentals of effective governance and oversight. It seems unlikely that the changes needed to turn the club around will occur, however I for one hope that it does become once again a club we all want to be a member of.
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| pisteoff wrote: |
| Quote: |
I can see why the ex CEO, and the one before that, got the hell out.
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Erm, no that is a misunderstanding. |
Oh, please trust me on this, he was getting the hell out alright. Like anyone in that position though, better to hang on 'til the bitter end for the best settlement figure. What was it? £75k? Or give notice and walk with a fraction of that. Think I know what I would do.
In any case he officially resigned. You can't have it all ways.
| Quote: |
| The challenge for SCGB Council is to turn the Club round. |
A challenge they are incapable of rising to as evidenced by:
- Insurance, the main money spinner after membership fees - the current management and board allowed it to lapse before securing a new insurer, yet they screamed very loudly when the building lease break clause was missed. Over a month gap and no sign of new insurance or, judging by the narrative on the website, if and when the new product will be available.
- Still promoting December trips to France and Switzerland - they almost certainly cannot run unless many of the participants are happy to quarantine. Italy still open (just). Whatever happens I would expect the club to be communicating better and being more fleet-footed to provide solutions. They seem to be rabbit in the headlights. They need to come up with a strategy and share it - are we looking at a late season of high activity or what?
- Merchandise done very badly -
| Quote: |
| Can you recommend a decent, breathable soft shell then? |
Yes probably but soft shell shouldn't be sold as a 'mid layer' ideally IMO and especially not cheapo promo merchandise with the breathability of a bin liner.
- Reps/leaders - evidently there aren't enough volunteers (if trips run) - well, quelle surprise, having asked them to part fund their trips - they may have agreed through gritted teeth but no wonder they now have diminishing enthusiasm.
- Membership offering - it hasn't changed. Same old, same old. Where's the innovation? Where are the compelling reasons why anyone should join or remain a member?
- Finances - It must be clear by now that season 20/21 is at best going to be worse than last year. The overheads continue, and we'll have a good idea of those ongoing costs when the accounts are published soon, and yet this was intended to be a recovery year, not back into profitability obviously, but a least a righting of the ship. That's unlikely isn't it? So what's the plan? Never mind the AGM, where's the EGM?
- Chat room v Facebook. Council members actively killing the Club's own chat room rather than making it work. And, just to add to the confusion, setting up more than one and squabbling over who has the power.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Yes probably but soft shell shouldn't be sold as a 'mid layer' ideally IMO and especially not cheapo promo merchandise with the breathability of a bin liner.
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Completely agree. I’ll need a lot of reassurance about breathability before I buy one.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Indeed. The word "Shell" in "Soft Shell" gives it away. Great with a base layer for ski touring or climbing in warmish conditions
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well, I was interested in the “soft” bit, hoping the stretch in the fabric would be useful after a big lunch.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| AL9000 wrote: |
| Well, I was interested in the “soft” bit, hoping the stretch in the fabric would be useful after a big lunch. |
Which is where 6mm of breathability just won't cut it. Wipe clean functionality would be useful. And all for only £55.
Meanwhile, I wonder how many £000s it cost to compile this nonsense: https://www.skiclub.co.uk/news/travel-and-holiday-news/2020/10/ski-club-consumer-research-september-intentions-survey And why?!? Who is the research for? Will anyone actually use it?
Do please lock yourself in a padded room and digest the contents. They should have called it The No Shyt Sherlock Research as most of the findings can be arrived at via a wild guess - Such gems as
| Quote: |
| Very interestingly, 59% of skiers are still planning to book independently this season (not changing drastically from the 61% last season), whilst 38% stated they will continue to book a package holiday this season. These numbers have pretty much stayed the same........................... |
Yes that is really very interesting.
Travel restrictions are mentioned. It does rather look like they are blaming the Government for spoiling the fun which isn't really a mature way of looking at it. Meanwhile, obviously knowing full well that there are travel quarantine issues they continue to push club holidays on the home page to France and Switzerland in November and December, and despite the fact I know one of them for certain has already been cancelled.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This is an example of what the Club should not be spending money on.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Is there an award for 'Most boring thread of the year?'
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@cameronphillips2000, I fear you'll have to do your own research to determine this
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| Is there an award for 'Most boring thread of the year?' |
Point taken. I know you must lead an otherwise scintillating existence at the keyboard all day and I really will try to make it more exciting for you.
It is really kicking off on Faceache. You'll need maximum concentration for all this. Bizarrely, we have TWO 'Ski Club Members and Council' Faceache groups. And we have three main 'contributors' - for simplicity I will abbreviate in code thus - DG, GA and TJ. GA is an admin of one Faceache group and TJ is the sole admin of the other. DG is only allowed on TJ's group and GA has just been BANNED from that group. Other admins on the GA group are having to edit GA's posts because they are too poisonous. GA and TJ are having open warfare. GA and DG are having open nuclear warfare. TJ was a Council member but ousted in a boardroom coup. TJ, to his credit, has been calling for more reasoned engagement. DG was a member of the club but illegally thrown out. Stay awake at the back please. Now DG has stated he is hitting the club with something called a Subject Access Request because GA has stupidly confirmed in public that all the correspondence surrounding the relationship of DG with the club going back many years, is stored on a server. The club have to be a bit careful here - the temptation would be to 'clean up' what's on that server and elsewhere, or not send it over, but that would be a criminal offence as far as I understand. And, given previous examples of GA's loose grip on board behaviour, you can bet the contents of that SAR will be putting the club in the way of potential action! But who knows? Hillary Clinton not available for comment. To be honest, it's a lesson for all organisations who could be on the receiving end of a SAR - careful what you discuss in stored form! It occurs to me that this would make quite a good soap opera.
Meanwhile, Rome burns, or to be more accurate Val D’Isere. As far as I can see the Council have done absolutely nothing to change the business model in response to 'the new normal' and blame still gets heaped on those who went before. Cutting costs here and there has no effect on the membership deal as most of ‘the benefits’ barely apply at this moment in time. The insurance is said to be ‘with the FCA’ and available in a few weeks from now. If it doesn’t have comprehensive covid cover then they may as well not bother now.
Two years of catastrophic losses to be followed by what must surely be a non-season (sorry, but I have a horrible feeling that's the case). The accounts due out very shortly, pre AGM, and it will be relatively easy to project the disaster forwards.
That any better @cameronphillips2000? Surely better than winter tyres, Brexit and helmets?
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When did the SCGB become a Trump administration clone 
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Well I find it amusing. Is it that this specific club attracts grown men who like to feud, or is it something else? Do their partners/ children/ parents know they do this, or is it something they're ashamed of? Are they all skiers, and are they competent?
Subject Access Requests can be fun.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well, given that it seems Gerry has emails on a personal computer which relate to an ex-member something like 6+ years after they were sent, and during which time Gerry ceased to be a member of council, that looks like a GDPR claim in the making.
What’s the SCGB policy on use of personal email accounts for club business?
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
Well, given that it seems Gerry has emails on a personal computer which relate to an ex-member something like 6+ years after they were sent, and during which time Gerry ceased to be a member of council, that looks like a GDPR claim in the making.
What’s the SCGB policy on use of personal email accounts for club business? |
It’s all held on my internet provider’s server not mine. David is arrogant and paranoid enough to think all his rubbish has been archived by the club and I has access to it. The reality is it’s just emails he’s either sent to me or asked to be forwarded to me.
Caught him out telling lies again though didn’t I. He claimed he didn’t resign form the club but I was able to produce an email he sent to me proving that he did. He didn’t tell me his email was confidential. I always thought he wanted his written word to reach the widest possible audience. Obviously not when it proves he’s been telling lies again.
Worth pointing out though that David denies having sent the email I’ve published. So who is telling the truth here then? Any of you have an opinion on that?
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FAQ
