 Poster: A snowHead
|
Shorts and flip flops; to be fair, it doesn’t sound as if there were enough people to care.
If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
..Nick
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Who knows - maybe running stuff through MTN was his price for taking the job? Perhaps a la Freshtracks SCGB now own MTN?
Doesn't look good in the context of past mismanagement and mis-spending though. I expect SCGB will be clear and transparent in explaining it to members  |
Presumably Gerry will be along soon to explain the apparent conflict of interest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| MorningGory wrote: |
@Pruman, Flip flops with or without socks?  |
Without apparently. The full 'Dutch Tourist' look will have to wait for colder temps.
| AL9000 wrote: |
Only one man can save them now!
DG to the rescue! |
Many a true word etc. He'd take them back to the ideals of 1903. What would be too wrong about that?
| philwig wrote: |
| As far as "dress" is concerned, well I think that the proof is in the pudding: if the people he met felt insulted, he got it wrong. |
Yeah, 'dress for a draw' we say in the City - if your customer is in a suit, wear a suit. If they are jeansy, wear jeans but chuck a jacket on top. Flip flops says 'hey look how cool is industry vet me' and you lot are inferior. Arrogance.
| big_ben wrote: |
Shorts and flip flops; to be fair, it doesn’t sound as if there were enough people to care.
If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
..Nick |
Yep, I get your drift, but when members and industry folks make an effort, it's only right you make an effort too.
| Jehu wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Who knows - maybe running stuff through MTN was his price for taking the job? Perhaps a la Freshtracks SCGB now own MTN?
Doesn't look good in the context of past mismanagement and mis-spending though. I expect SCGB will be clear and transparent in explaining it to members |
Presumably Gerry will be along soon to explain the apparent conflict of interest. |
Difficult to exlpain though, even for Teflon Gerry. The Club needs a GM that is 100% focussed on the club and he clearly isn't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Pruman wrote: |
| ... if your customer is in a suit, wear a suit. If they are jeansy, wear jeans but chuck a jacket on top. Flip flops says 'hey look how cool is industry vet me' and you lot are inferior. Arrogance. |
Yes, but it was actually a pub trip, not a business meeting with old folk who're stuck in 1903. Did all the others have shiny shoes (giggles) and wear the correct type of head-dress?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| philwig wrote: |
| it was actually a pub trip, not a business meeting with old folk who're stuck in 1903. Did all the others have shiny shoes (giggles) and wear the correct type of head-dress? |
Well, ok, technically a public house but the evening was billed as:
| Quote: |
This exclusive event will kick-start the winter season for our members, with food and drink served during a fun evening with fellow members and ski enthusiasts. The evening will be filled with apres-ski tunes with a chance to talk to some of the leading Tourist Boards in Europe about the winter season to come.
please note, this is a member exclusive event so please ensure you are a Ski Club member before signing up, this will be checked pre-event
In association with: Atout France/France Montagnes, Austrian National Tourist Board, Switzerland Tourism, Norway Home of Skiing, Trentino and Andorra Turisme. |
Not exactly a game of darts with Big Eric, a few pickled eggs and a pint or six of Ye Olde Bogbrushe. Sold as exclusive and perhaps requiring of a little more class. Fact is that Club business partners made the effort to be there, hardly anyone showed up, and I can't seem to find any pics of the evening anywhere - normally when an event goes off well there are pics of happy revellers to make the FOMO crowd depressed.
What's wrong with tweed FFS? Black shiny shoes - 'no brown in town'. Headwear - pith helmet of course. The ex-CEO was always a bit dapper, waxed 'tache and all that. Shorts and flip flops is probably an over-reaction to all that but, from some who were there, 'not appropriate'.
Meanwhile, a month since the last news story on the Club website, no update to the miniscule and incomplete events diary. There's just no ooomph no matter what you're wearing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Pruman wrote: |
The ex-CEO was always a bit dapper, waxed 'tache and all that. Shorts and flip flops is probably an over-reaction to all that but, from some who were there, 'not appropriate'.
|
The tache was presumably for twirling villainy purposes. Presumably if Council don't like the way their servant dresses they can give him a dressing down or fire him and take another 12 months to replace him. Old School Clubs seem to be way too hung up on dress code, presumably because it used to be a way of identifying and excluding those who weren't of the right stock or whatever. I mean just imagine if someone had the audacity to turn up on a Freshtracks holiday in a chavvy tracksuit despite its comfort as a travel garment.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Presumably if Council don't like the way their servant dresses they can give him a dressing gown or fire him and take another 12 months to replace him. |
FIFY... 
Presumably a blue smoking jacket would be just a little too ironic?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, <Ladybracknellvoice> a tracksuit?? </Ladybracknellvoice>
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, <Ladybracknellvoice> a tracksuit?? </Ladybracknellvoice> |
I think it was on a PSB of old in L2A that a few of us were having dinner and a beer somewhere when a lad joined the next table with full gold trimmed white trackie, gold chains, white leather baseball hat -the works. We nicknamed him cinquante centimes.
As there was a pro jump with heli filming on the glacier and a big freestyle contest set up above town it is quite likely he was one of the pros and more than capable of outskiing any sH or SCGB member. That or just a local bellend.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I've just had lunch in the City where one of our group was wearing a tweed 3 piece suit and brown shoes...its Friday! I should add he looked great and not just because he's a snowHead!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@holidayloverxx, a snowHead with a tweed three piece suit?! Do I know this person? And was he not a little warm thus attired today?
I think brown shoes are probably OK with tweed, but definitely not with a suit that's plain grey, black or blue. (You can take a girl out of the City, but...However I was in the vanguard of women wearing trousers to the office, including - though this turned into a battle royal - smart, designer jeans.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| ster wrote: |
| ... Not a few years ago we were being shown by a senior to our respective groups on our first day in a Big 6 firm all in our business suits etc. , as the remainder of the group walked off after dropping off one fresh faced lad the senior turned to the remaining inductees and said “They are going to love him”, then he nodded down to the lad’s shoes, “Brown shoes!” |
So they like bullying people? Is that in their company policy? Wankers.
I'd eat them alive, in front of their subordinates, and spit out the bits. But then they probably wouldn't try it on me as I don't smell "victim" to that sort of prick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| philwig wrote: |
| ster wrote: |
| ... Not a few years ago we were being shown by a senior to our respective groups on our first day in a Big 6 firm all in our business suits etc. , as the remainder of the group walked off after dropping off one fresh faced lad the senior turned to the remaining inductees and said “They are going to love him”, then he nodded down to the lad’s shoes, “Brown shoes!” |
So they like bullying people? Is that in their company policy? Wankers.
I'd eat them alive, in front of their subordinates, and spit out the bits. But then they probably wouldn't try it on me as I don't smell "victim" to that sort of prick. |
I suspect the reference is to back in the 90s or beyond. And yes workplaces have evolved but there's always been wankers and tinpot "rank" bullies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Hurtle wrote: |
@holidayloverxx, a snowHead with a tweed three piece suit?! Do I know this person? And was he not a little warm thus attired today?
I think brown shoes are probably OK with tweed, but definitely not with a suit that's plain grey, black or blue. (You can take a girl out of the City, but...However I was in the vanguard of women wearing trousers to the office, including - though this turned into a battle royal - smart, designer jeans.) |
I don't think you do know him, he may have been a little warm but he carried it off with aplomb
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Well, that old tale didn't get the reaction I expected. It was very much a different time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Ok, I think we've covered City footwear, social norms and the changing workplace 1970-2021. Well done all.
Moving on, I was so excited to see an email from the Club that cheerily started:
| Quote: |
| Welcome Back To Winter |
which is almost as daft as the Winter Starts Here email. It continues:
| Quote: |
Let’s rewind back to the start (I do hope they mean 1903) as the coming autumn turns to winter (like any other chronology is possible), the hope, expectation and excitement all begin to rise again. The prospect of a return to snow whets the appetite for us all, determined to put last season behind us and inspiring us to try the extraordinary.
Our goal of helping everyone make the most of their time in the mountains has never been more important than now, and we’re all excited to bring our members together, in the UK, Alps and all over the world, to practice the sports we love the most.
Whatever your plans this season, allow us to welcome you back to winter. |
This is the opening of a piece of email marketing! Surely they know the science of email marketing by now?
It gets worse, it rambles on in flowery language, never really gets to the point or attempts to make an offer or close the deal. They badly need help with things like this (if anyone is tuning in), with the website, with communication generally (the last 'news' on the website was an insurance update over a month ago) - look 'cool' in shorts and flip flops if you like but do some cool things first. That's kind of what I was getting at.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
But almost the last piece in that email seems to be offering news and advice on the latest travel situations:
“ Stay on top of things in a tumultuous travel world with our information and advice, providing the latest updates on where the easiest passport queue is as well as the freshest powder. “
I haven’t been to see whether it’s possible to find such information - but I won’t be holding my breath.
Or will that be for members only? - I’m not rejoining just to find out whether the ‘new’ (no longer) website is now providing the sort of information that was lost when it was re-hashed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
> The prospect of a return to snow whets the appetite for us all, determined to put last season behind us and inspiring us to try the extraordinary.
last season was great, I'm hoping for the same again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I assume they are lighting the path for members with all the up to the minute news on Covid related travel requirement, airline timetable intelligence and, of course, their insurance offer......
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I thought they probably had an excellent "last season" too, what with taking subscriptions from people who weren't able to use them and all
| Quote: |
| ... The White Haus evening was in conjunction with MTN and the market research is in conjunction with MTN. ... |
That seems quite important.
Earlier questions about why the scgb would want or need to do "market research" are now answered.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| philwig wrote: |
I thought they probably had an excellent "last season" too, what with taking subscriptions from people who weren't able to use them and all
|
Nice work, if you can get it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If SCGB cared about appealing to those that have previously been members, or may do in the future, ie if Council cared rather than merely hoped to turn the club around - you would see engagement with wider groups, not just those that toe the party line. eg here (and in the Facebook PPF group) you would see comments from members of Council, perhaps even the new "flip flop" GM - asking questions, presenting positive messages, addressing concerns etc. If Gerry pops up here at least we get something that shows someone on Council is awake, although he's not the best listener. There is so much rich, and well informed criticism on snowheads - which is constructive if taken as such. Instead SCGB are reliant on a dwindling group of members who put 'loyalty' and 'presenting a unified council view' over everything, sadly losing all perspective and rationality along the way - and completely losing control of finances too, although it looks like this has finally been addressed. The Club's offer is much reduced, holidays much more expensive and repping almost dead - why not engage and find a way forward which can re-energise the club. As the separate bluesky thread argues, there is a market for a members ski club that is focussed on members - why not the SCGB? This is the SCGB CEO thread - so come on James Gambrill (GM) - please engage!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@pisteoff, I notice on your facebook it's still around 50/50 on people loyally saying how Freshtracks are great value. I guess SCGB don't worry then about any other members.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Quote: |
I notice on your facebook it's still around 50/50 on people loyally saying how Freshtracks are great value
|
Well perhaps not "my" group ... but yes, interesting. It is good to that Freshtracks has a loyal following mind - my concern is more that SCGB has become a holiday company with a loyalty club attached - rather than a member led club for skiers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What's teh harm if it is a TO with a bunch of additional people willing to pay £70+ for the brochure on the offchance that they might one day go away with them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
True, no harm. And if members that choose the holidays feel they are getting a good deal that's great for them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| pisteoff wrote: |
| If SCGB cared |
Actions speak louder than words and it is clear that they don't care, none of them.
The charge sheet:
- generally spaffing the millions made from White House sale up the wall
- not noticing the break clause in the office lease and potentially spaffing another million quid or so up another wall
- spaffing nearly half a million quid up another wall on a frankly terrible website
- raking in membership subs during a write-off pandemic year and making no gesture of part refund or extension to members, as if members would just forget all about it, meanwhile allegedly pleading poverty to the landlord, accepting furlough money and cutting back member benefits (un-spaffing if you like)
- spaffing tens of thousands settling with the outgoing CEO (I propose a rebrand - The Spaffing Club of Great Britain)
- having no real membership strategy save for trotting out the same old same old tired story
- losing control of member communication - exhibits: really poorly crafted emails, an abandoned chat room and an unloved website (seriously, just go look at it - try this one https://www.skiclub.co.uk/info-and-advice/before-you-go - no section for or mention of Covid 19. Look at News and Events)
- Overpriced Fresh Tracks packages and, yes, they are overpriced (why? probably because they have to amortise the bloated head office cost in the cost of each holiday and have to allow for a rep)
- Reps' program in such disarray they need to recruit members as social reps and it's quite unclear what they can or can't do on snow - good potential for some legal fee spaffing
- a GM who has had 3 months to make an impact, talks a good game on a podcast (maybe assisted by soft ball questions), mistakenly thinks the club isn't for beginners thereby missing a big trick, thinks yet more market research will somehow help, wears shorts and flip flops (ok, we've discussed that last one)
Any Director that pops up to say "not me Guv, it was those other nasty guys and anyway I was washing my hair that day" is just avoiding responsibility.
I really want to say "what a great job they've done with (insert thing here)" but I honestly can't think of anything. Can you?
Here are a few examples of clubs of a similar nature where those who run it clearly care quite a bit more and where there is a lot more going on:
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/
https://www.eagleskiclub.org.uk/
https://www.alpineskiclub.org.uk/
https://aacuk.org.uk/
http://www.alpine-club.org.uk/ (not secure)
While at it, the other club that looks a bit dishevelled and unloved is: http://www.scottishskiclub.org.uk/ (not secure) - but at least unpretentious and cheap and they have huts.
| pisteoff wrote: |
| As the separate bluesky thread argues, there is a market for a members ski club that is focussed on members - why not the SCGB? |
Because they continue to prove that they can't. Seriously, I wouldn't bother when, for many, the answer is somewhere in the above list, or a combination of clubs, or no club at all and hook up via social media, via Snowheads, via whatever. The only 'club' you might need for piste skiing and socialising is Club Med. Those clubs above are all about half the price of SCGB too with more clearly defined aims and benefits.
| pisteoff wrote: |
| True, no harm. And if members that choose the holidays feel they are getting a good deal that's great for them. |
But how many like that are still left? There's a point at which holidays become unviable and they are trying to fill 170 different options. As the membership numbers decline (like they continue to do year after year even pre Covid), the head office cost and the rep cost becomes a real burden. So easy to make a big loss.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
Any Director that pops up to say "not me Guv, it was those other nasty guys and anyway I was washing my hair that day" is just avoiding responsibility.
|
Do any still pop up here? I don't count, and I wasn't washing my hair.
Think you are pretty much spot on in this assessment - except I do think there is a space left by SCGB moving away from a members club to a holiday club. Those other clubs do something different imo (mostly ski mountaineering, which has a much smaller demographic?). btw TCD is SCGB Chairman and Treasurer on one of those
Spaffing - new word for me, but I can see what it means!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| pisteoff wrote: |
| Spaffing - new word for me, but I can see what it means! |
Our Prime Minister likes using it to describe wasting money. Think he must have first heard it in a different context in his Eton dorm room! Shaking a bottle of champers and spraying it around is also known as spaffing and that feels about right to describe, for example, nearly half a million quid on the unloved website we see before us! Someone somewhere laughed very loudly on the way to the bank. Does anyone know who?
| pisteoff wrote: |
| Those other clubs do something different imo |
Yes, they communicate better, they have more events, they have a purpose, they preserve Members' funds, they don't have bloated head offices. Generally they are a place for like-minded people to belong, meet other like-minded people, and derive some tangible benefits in return for their £35 (or thereabouts, that seems to be the norm).
| pisteoff wrote: |
| I do think there is a space left by SCGB moving away from a members club to a holiday club |
Or tour operator as it is otherwise known. What would differentiate SHCGB?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
Does anyone know who?
|
Yes, probably, think I have this data. Those that laughed to the bank included: Holt obviously, but others and the specific answer to your question, website developers. But to what end?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Won't the Reps need work permits this winter for the EU?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
Think he must have first heard it in a different context in his Eton dorm room! Shaking a bottle of champers and spraying it around is also known as spaffing
|
Very much doubt it was champagne.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Interestingly @gerry has gone on sabbatical it seems from his one man mission to portray the SCGB in a bad light here having evaded any substantive questioning but thrown plenty of accusations of libel etc around.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pisteoff wrote: |
... except I do think there is a space left by SCGB moving away from a members club to a holiday club.
Those other clubs do something different imo (mostly ski mountaineering, which has a much smaller demographic?). ... |
But I don't think they "moved away" from a successful place to find a failing one.
The world changed, and they failed to adapt. As my VC mates would say "I wouldn't start from here", but I also wouldn't start from there.
I think that both their "last century" model and their current model are broken, hence if there's a space back there, I'd be very wary of going there.
But their original club would have started organically; anything new is likely to be the same, like all of those clubs you listed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
their current model are broken,
|
Is it?
Perhaps your (less salubrious?) “VC mates” will tell you what a great job they’ve done - asset-stripping while still collecting slumbering members’ DDs
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Seriously though - there is a new model opportunity - it would though be very different ... None of the baggage you mention, and far more 'now' . SCGB can continue and do its thing - perhaps it will find a stable base level, it does have a very loyal and healthy core.
I'm going to PSB and week after (brave new world for me) and look forward to meeting / renewing there with anyone else who is around.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pisteoff wrote: |
| Quote: |
I notice on your facebook it's still around 50/50 on people loyally saying how Freshtracks are great value
|
Well perhaps not "my" group ... but yes, interesting. It is good to that Freshtracks has a loyal following mind - my concern is more that SCGB has become a holiday company with a loyalty club attached - rather than a member led club for skiers. |
50/50 is fine old boy.
Double the margins & half the customers equates to the same profits & half the work, which is a good deal for the reps.
What harm in becoming a little more exclusive?
The cast-offs can go to Mark Warner or Snowheads. All the more fun for the chaps!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
