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Ski Club of Great Britain Chief Exec resigns

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Pruman wrote:
philwig wrote:
I self-insure..................I saved lots on not buying insurance I didn't need.


At some point in time your luck runs out, or at least you should assume so or insurance as a product wouldn't need to exist. Well done on surviving this far. You mention Canada - imagine being seriously ill or injured there, you want to get back home or your family want what's left of you back home, but no airline will take you and even if they did it would be with a doctor and nurse escort. The costs of medical treatment and repatriation are simply eye-watering. Meanwhile, the cost of a week or two travel insurance is peanuts.


I couldn't agree more. The advice for The States, is to have £10m cover for medical, where it can cost £100k just to get an infection treated in hospital....and then there is the importance of Personal Liability, given the Americans' propensity for litigation.

I think the last multi-trip insurance, which included USA, with some pre-conditions, was £177.
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Pruman wrote:
...The costs of medical treatment and repatriation are simply eye-watering. ...

True, but even those aren't the biggest potential claims; the thing that could be REALLY expensive is third-party liability. Imagine being found liable for an accident that results in a Schumacher-type injury to someone else, or perhaps more than one person, or forces a "celebrity" to give up their career. The cost could be £millions - and possibly not only once, but repeated for many years.

It is one of the Cycling UK membership benefits mentioned up the thread. If SCGB membership included third-party liability it would become more practical, for those who can afford to run the risk, to consider avoiding regular travel insurance, particularly if combined with GHIC (where valid) and lift-pass-office rescue insurance.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ecureuil wrote:
Pruman wrote:
...The costs of medical treatment and repatriation are simply eye-watering. ...

True, but even those aren't the biggest potential claims; the thing that could be REALLY expensive is third-party liability. Imagine being found liable for an accident that results in a Schumacher-type injury to someone else, or perhaps more than one person, or forces a "celebrity" to give up their career. The cost could be £millions - and possibly not only once, but repeated for many years.


This is true but American plaintiff attorneys are not daft. They don’t take on cases for which 40% of the expected payout (or whatever share they have negotiated with the plaintiff or their estate) which they stand to earn won’t be profitable for them. So if you only have $X million of insurance cover they will try to settle for just under that figure as they know the chances of getting a significantly higher award and enforcing it is not worth their time. Even truckers only buy $1M in most cases.
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philwig wrote:
Any news on the SCGB - is it time for a new leader yet?


Must be well overdue by now. Two months is almost huge pay off and gold watch territory. Seriously though, I would expect to see some kind of evidence of an impact by now, at the very least more activity from the communications department - just one news story (a very dull announcement from their insurance provider) in his tenure so far yet I think there has been plenty to talk about and much they could be promoting. Other sites manage it: https://www.inthesnow.com/category/news/ and other clubs manage it https://www.thebmc.co.uk/articles

We've had 'Freedom Day' and you'd think that would have been an ideal cue to get some events in the diary, even just a few pub-based meet-ups (or is that too down market?) Aside from a few instructional things at ChillFactore ending next weekend, the Events section is bereft. 

DJL wrote:
ecureuil wrote:
Pruman wrote:
...The costs of medical treatment and repatriation are simply eye-watering. ...

True, but even those aren't the biggest potential claims; the thing that could be REALLY expensive is third-party liability.  Imagine being found liable for an accident that results in a Schumacher-type injury to someone else, or perhaps more than one person, or forces a "celebrity" to give up their career.  The cost could be £millions - and possibly not only once, but repeated for many years.


This is true but American plaintiff attorneys are not daft.  They don’t take on cases for which 40% of the expected payout (or whatever share they have negotiated with the plaintiff or their estate) which they stand to earn won’t be profitable for them.  So if you only have $X million of insurance cover they will try to settle for just under that figure as they know the chances of getting a significantly higher award and enforcing it is not worth their time.  Even truckers only buy $1M in most cases.


And, on the flip side, if you have no insurance and only modest assets, they won't come after you at all, especially if you live on a different continent. The name of the game is not to do anything that gets you detained and relieved of your passport! 
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

more activity from the communications department - just one news story


What they need is a talented, informative and extremely knowledgeable journalist with his ear to the snow.

Anybody have any suggestions for an expert professional communicator?
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Pruman wrote:
Oh, I love Google: https://www.skipedia.co.uk/2012/05/skipedia-teams-up-with-expedient-marketing/ I'd call that firmly 'working with' but never mind.

ha, touche! I'd forgotten about that. I did produce a website for Expedient (for Aosta Valley). Seems like a very long time ago now!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
AL9000 wrote:
Quote:

more activity from the communications department - just one news story


What they need is a talented, informative and extremely knowledgeable journalist with his ear to the snow.

Anybody have any suggestions for an expert professional communicator?


Well I wonder who you could possibly mean Laughing . I only see what he creates on Facebook but, one thing is for sure, he churns out 1 or 2 bits of ski news most days, I understand on his own and just for fun, which is more than the entire paid staff of SCGB and they have the contents of a magazine at their disposal. By my reckoning he is 45 times more productive. I really do wonder what they all actually do.



iainm wrote:
Pruman wrote:
Oh, I love Google: https://www.skipedia.co.uk/2012/05/skipedia-teams-up-with-expedient-marketing/ I'd call that firmly 'working with' but never mind.

ha, touche! I'd forgotten about that. I did produce a website for Expedient (for Aosta Valley). Seems like a very long time ago now!


and the dog ate my homework sir. Please re-interview him and give it the full Paxo (not the stuffing). It's normal to look at someone's achievements after their first 100 days in the job so ideal opportunity coming up.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

I really do wonder what they all actually do.


Each other, by the sound of it. Little Angel

Paxo definitely would have mentioned him/her/it, repeatedly!!
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I see the Freshtracks Premier Party 5th Dec has been announced £1599 for 3 star hotel and £1949 for 4 star hotel. I guess a large part of the price increase is due to factors out with the SCGB. However the 2 class accommodation does go against the esprit de corps, I certainly found this on a previous 2 tier Freshtracks holiday - a little like Lord of the Flies, posh contingent wearing ties for dinner!
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@On the rocks, If you have to ask the price.....

I assume that includes guiding off piste etc, however early December when hotel rates are supposedly cheap but snow coverage may be less than optimal....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Dave of the Marmottes, yes, and Swissair flights with ski carriage
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
On the rocks wrote:
I see the Freshtracks Premier Party 5th Dec has been announced £1599 for 3 star hotel and £1949 for 4 star hotel. I guess a large part of the price increase is due to factors out with the SCGB. However the 2 class accommodation does go against the esprit de corps, I certainly found this on a previous 2 tier Freshtracks holiday - a little like Lord of the Flies, posh contingent wearing ties for dinner!


Shut up and take my money, I’ll even get the tie pressed and have a shave
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
On the rocks wrote:
... ....osh contingent wearing ties for dinner!
How old are these people? Ties? Do they wear wigs too?
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Of course! Most of the costs involved in FreshTracks trips relate to porterage to get appropriate silverware to the high Alpine refuges. Goose doesn't transport itself up the mountain - 6 years of research and over £350k of club money proved that.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
iainm wrote:
...I have never worked with him directly, ...

pruman wrote:
https://www.skipedia.co.uk/2012/05/skipedia-teams-up-with-expedient-marketing/ I'd call that firmly 'working with' but never mind.

iainm wrote:
... I did produce a website for Expedient ...

In the link above you wrote:

Iain Martin wrote:
Skipedia is delighted to announce that as of 25 May 2012, we will be joining forces with Expedient Marketing & Public Relations.
Expedient Co-Founder and MD, James Gambrill said:
“We are delighted that Iain Martin from Skipedia has decided to join forces with us.
... His arrival adds expertise in social media and SEO ..."


There are three statements each of which appears intended to give a different message.
I wonder why.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Sounds like they hired the organ grinders monkey ....
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
philwig wrote:
On the rocks wrote:
... ....osh contingent wearing ties for dinner!
How old are these people? Ties? Do they wear wigs too?


I have certainly seen the 'dressing for dinner' thing with my own eyes but I'm talking about 20-30-40 years ago with increasing propensity for dressing up the further back you go. I went on a few solo trips 70s and 80s and ended up sharing with guys who unpacked blazers, slacks, collar and tie, brogues, and even tweeds and kilts with all the trimmings. Meanwhile I felt somewhat more comfy in the tracksuit. If you ever went to the Eaton Sq clubhouse, it was mainly staffed by Sloane Rangers with plenty of cashmere, silk scarves and errrr pearl necklaces  Embarassed . The same garb often appeared at dinner in the alps. I don't think anyone bothers with all that today. Stereotypes stick fast though don't they?

philwig wrote:
I wonder why.


I think you'll find 'The Snow Biz' is just like any other stuck in the mud biz. The faces stick around a long time and become 'industry stalwart', 'industry veteran', 'legend'  Laughing  Laughing etc etc and they all slappy-back each other convincing themselves they have a clue what they are doing. They all move around the jobs, execute their stale old ideas, more industry slappy-backy, more talking shops, more mediocre performance, just a downward spiral into oblivion until a new kid on the block comes along (who everyone hates) to 'disrupt' everything and walk off with the mullah. Something like that. It's why old established players can't jump curves to the next new thing - eg traditional publishers struggled with the Internet and ultimately lost to the newbies, internal combustion engine carmakers were behind the curve with electric, typewriter companies couldn't move successfully into word processing etc etc.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
eblunt wrote:
Sounds like they hired the organ grinders monkey ....


Excellent news!
That’ll give the SCGB’s resident Organ Grinder’s Monkey’s c**ksucker something to do.
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@Pruman, we do have Alistair Pink and his tweeds Very Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@MorningGory, did someone call? Toofy Grin

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This thread keeps going with healthy debate - something SCGB needs, but its Council cannot cope with. Sadly it does feel SCGB has really lost its way. Prem party over three times as expensive as the equivalent Snowheads bash?!! OK it includes flights and guides, (bash includes lift pass), however this seems to be just SCGB trying to make a profit from the loyal and enthusiastic prem party group to fund the still excessive overheads of an increasingly 'exclusive' holiday company with members attached. Prem party probably doesn't include porterage and butlers, but SCGB is no longer the place for 'the average ski club member' ... except that the average SKGB member is now well over 50, well off and more interested in stiff upper lip exclusive "loyalty" than inclusiveness. No forum, no leaders, expensive holidays, no club house, no club skiing, no member say, broken leadership, broken website, lost snow reports, diminished discounts, £4m of club money wasted, failed CEO's and Council rewarded with perks and pay offs - just not a club for all, look at the claimed benefit of the right to pay £80 per day for guiding ... --- oh and if you want to have a say to try to help turn the club around and make it relevant again, then they'll pick on you. The Club now has (my opinion) a highly flawed, ego driven, Chairman, who while a desperately needed change from the previous profligate leadership, compromises change by demanding sycophants when what is needed is a fresh approach aimed at all. Sadly SCGB is not the club it once was, and lacks the honesty and courage to address core problems to make it once again a club focussed on its members, relevant to the 2020's and beyond. You guys here have long spotted all that!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
pisteoff wrote:
This thread keeps going with healthy debate - something SCGB needs, but its Council cannot cope with. Sadly it does feel SCGB has really lost its way. ... --- oh and if you want to have a say to try to help turn the club around and make it relevant again, then they'll pick on you. The Club now has (my opinion) a highly flawed, ego driven, Chairman, who while a desperately needed change from the previous profligate leadership, compromises change by demanding sycophants when what is needed is a fresh approach aimed at all. Sadly SCGB is not the club it once was, and lacks the honesty and courage to address core problems to make it once again a club focussed on its members, relevant to the 2020's and beyond. You guys here have long spotted all that!


@pisteoff, your views on the SCGB do seem to have developed somewhat since your first post on this thread back in April 2020, back then when you were a Council member you wrote "I also feel very positive that the SCGB has turned a corner and has the fundamentals in place to re-build the great members club that many of us have enjoyed so much in the past." Presumably the change is in part due to your experiences of being on the council and seeing in detail how the club is still being run?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thanks - just re-read my post, living up to my Snowheads name rather wasn't I! However the sad truth is that the club needed a good shake up. With support of snowheads SCGB members and others I was elected onto Council despite a leadership intent on maintaining their pernicious, un-accountable and naïve control of the club. (even to the point of rigging the elections). I was surprised and delighted to be able to effect change, only for the new Chairman to take the club back to where it was, albeit without the financial nonsense. However simply stopping losses of over £1m pa is not enough to create a relevant club. The Chairman insisted on sycophants who would not and could not challenge his authority, promptly broke the governance principles he was brought in to re-establish, and a weak Council fell into line, again nervous about revealing the inner workings a failing governance structure. Even the Rottweiler on Council joined in biting his own rather than shaking too hard, and SCGB is back where it was - only relevant to an ever aging and declining few. Council are protecting the wrong things, failing to address the core issues and hiding dirty washing ... the general view is better not to do washing in public. Trouble is an inexperienced Council managing a failing £6m business was - and still is - unable to make the changes needed, so simply hides what it doesn't want members to see. Foolish for Council to throw out - then ban - one voice capable of providing experienced internal challenge to an organisation that desperately needed it. Perhaps I will share for general amusement the last straws that have made me change my view - however the sad conclusion I now reach is that SCGB is terminally flawed, and unable to address the issues of a changing world. Great if new Council can disprove this, but they won't - I held out hope for longer than many here. My own view is that there is still a place for a Ski Club for British skiers - but it needs to be very different to what worked in the early 20th century. We are in an internet and mobile phone age. SCGB isn't the only 'institution' which will be unable to unburden itself and take on the challenge constructively. Snowheads started out as Ski Club 2.0 - to some extent it is, perhaps there is room to build a new Club for all. SCGB can continue to offer holidays with membership ... perhaps it will be worth being a member for this and ... well can't think of what else, but perhaps something ... however it won't be a Club aimed at a wide British skier base.
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The SCGB strikes me a bit like a parochial golf club stuffed with old hands who like things the way they are. They'll tolerate the odd incomer provided they are on the aspirational end of common and turn up in their Merc rather than their work van. And of course they welcome kids of members provided they fit the behavioural mould. One day they look round and notice that the clubhouse is crumbling, there are more wakes than weddings being held and there are no members under 50...then shrug and say...shame no one appreciates how good this is.

At the moment they've basically hired a new bartender and expect that he'll turn the ship around.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 30-07-21 14:46; edited 1 time in total
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Quote:

a parochial golf club stuffed with old hands who like things the way they are….


I may know of a few of those.

They can simply sell the course off to housing developers.
F*ck golf and F*ck future generations!

Sound familiar?
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The fundamental question is: Will Freshtracks make a profit over the forthcoming season with increased revenues bolstering club finances, or will it make a loss with lack of sales due to price increases, and so bankrupt the club?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

Will Freshtracks make a profit over the forthcoming season


Urgh, there lies the question. FT appeals to those who are flexible with time, and with the ongoing situation it's much more likely that people who are flexible will book last minute, by which time most operators will probably be discounting hard, so FT will have to stand out on price or offering.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
What's stopping Snowheads from developing into a national body? If there are enough paid up members there will be enough clout, and it'll push SCGB out fairly quickly. Seen similar in the marine world happen...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
userscott wrote:
What's stopping Snowheads from developing into a national body? If there are enough paid up members there will be enough clout, and it'll push SCGB out fairly quickly. Seen similar in the marine world happen...


Not sure the SCGB is or has ever been a governing body; this would be Snowsports England?

..Nick
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
big_ben wrote:
... Not sure the SCGB is or has ever been a governing body; this would be Snowsports England? ...
Sounds correct. However it's interesting that their marketing could have made people believe such a thing, even if to an apparently limited demographic. I wonder where that idea came from?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

I wonder where that idea came from?

Maybe this? https://www.skiclub.co.uk/news/ski-club-news/2021/03/ski-club-launch-exciting-new-partnership-with-gb-snowsport
For me this so reflects some confusion within SCGB about what a members club should be about. Are they about promoting and supporting snowsports in general, or are they about supporting skiers (and boarders?) for their holidays in the mountains? For me the Club was fantastic for enhancing the in resort experience, sadly most of that offer has fallen away, particularly in the UK's main destination (France) so how does SCGB thrive now?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
wink Good find. However if you read the small print then I believe it is about "keeping our members engaged and up to date on all the exciting news".
So presumably that could be simply an agreement to let the old boys at SCGB republish GB Snowsport news to the unloved SCGB website (see below).

GB Snowsport's Vicky Gosling, Chief Executive says in that press release:
"working together to ensure that snowsport across Britain is committed to diversity and inclusivity in all its forms."

Perhaps I should mail Vicky copies of some of the the racist and misogynist abuse SCGB director Gerald Aitken has posted in the private
parts of this site.

GB Snowsport's web site looks good, loved, well designed, vibrant. They have younger people and snowboarders in their images even.
They also have a lot more active content, hence it took me a while to get back to the date of that press release... which doesn't
appear on the GB Snowsport's site that I can see. Not too important to them, although as above, if they really intend to help the sport
be diverse and inclusive, then the SCGB needs some serious attention in that specific regard.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The SCGB seem to be operating in a very small and diminishing vacuum.

..Nick
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Quote:

The SCGB seem to be operating in a very small and diminishing vacuum

Yes, but not quite a vacuum, albeit the air is running out - it has managed to 'waste' over £4m of member assets but still has a couple of million in the kitty ... so it could turn things around. However this comes back to the subject of this thread. This takes progressive leadership and openness to change ... its just not going to happen, in large part because of broken governance and self interest over member engagement and healthy openness to change. I wish James Gambrill well - its one heck of a challenge, especially when the brief is to be subservient to a broken system.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
philwig wrote:

Perhaps I should mail Vicky copies of some of the the racist and misogynist abuse SCGB director Gerald Aitken has posted in the private
parts of this site.


Perhaps you should


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 2-08-21 11:25; edited 1 time in total
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To be fair there is no evidence that Gerry’s views impact on the policies and culture of the SCGB, to mis-attribute blame in this way would be a distraction from the fundamental underlying problems
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big_ben wrote:
userscott wrote:
What's stopping Snowheads from developing into a national body? If there are enough paid up members there will be enough clout, and it'll push SCGB out fairly quickly. Seen similar in the marine world happen...


Not sure the SCGB is or has ever been a governing body; this would be Snowsports England?

The SCGB was the original national governing body for skiing. This role was given to the National Ski Federation of Great Britain in 1964 and is done by GB Snowsport today.

I have no idea what userscott was proposing.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Calm down chaps..

I wasn't suggesting that Snowheads could be a governing body, I said a national body - representing skiers and boarders impartially on a national level. There is plenty of presidence for this approach in other similar sporting industries without having to impede on the duties or responsibilities of a governing body. I do believe theres a gap in the market for it - when I first got into skiing I almost joined SCGB out of principle, then stumbled accross Snowsport England membership but didn't feel it offered the benefits I was expecting as a recreational skier rather than a competitive skier. Only a suggestion to leverage the potential power available to the vast membership on here, don't let it raise pulses too high..
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Still don't understand what national body means and why skiers need representing - perhaps one might conceive a role in lobbying re travel, Brexit related loss of freedoms and admin hassles, Covid hassles, ensuring insurers offer products that are fit for purpose etc etc? But it's kinda generic kinda representation. Reality is thise would be issues with lots of complexities that it would be hard for experts to stay on top of let alone a members'club
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Still don't understand what national body means and why skiers need representing - perhaps one might conceive a role in lobbying re travel, Brexit related loss of freedoms and admin hassles, Covid hassles, ensuring insurers offer products that are fit for purpose etc etc? But it's kinda generic kinda representation. Reality is thise would be issues with lots of complexities that it would be hard for experts to stay on top of let alone a members'club


I think you've just answered it with at least four different things a representative body of a group should be doing. I've just found another thread on here talking about doing pretty much exactly the same thing so perhaps best to park this particular discussion on here, other than to say my closing words - which is when the benchmark for representation is a club pishing multiple millions up the wall then it shouldn't be too hard to beat lol.
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