 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi.
I'm looking at buying some black crows. Main reasons I tested some camox (i actually wanted to test the wider navis but couldn't find a stockists in the resort) in France earlier this year and loved them!
Can't decide between the navis, atris or corvus (or their freebird equivalent). I'm 170cm 75kg and a decent skier. I'm planning to mount salomon guardians etc for short tours and to access more resort off piste but unlikely I'll be doing any long tours.
If anybody has any experience of them I'd appreciate the feedback! Specifically how the navis handle deep powder - potential Japan trip next year. Also how the atris or corvus handle piste as early season European trips have more often than not involve a good bit of piste skiing. Also sizing advice, I'm thinking 169 in the navis but concerned they'd be a bit too short at my height and weight for anything deepish.
Thanks any advice appreciated!
Danny
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have the 15/16 Atris in a 184 and am 80kg. This version of the Atris is slightly stiffer than the current iteration and has a slightly tighter radius - 18m rather than 20m.
Several observations: first, it skis short. While I haven't had many tip dive issues, I sort of regret not getting the 189. At 75kg I would unhesitatingly size up to the 184.
The 15/16 version works well on piste in any condition other than proper hardpack. It is very nimble and carves well for a wide ski. It will not perform as well as a dedicated piste ski or a wide ski with metal in it.
More generally, it rewards being driven with a centred stance and worked laterally. It is pretty turny. You don't have to be absolutely on it all the time in order to get the most out of it but it has quite a wide perfomance envelope. If you are someone who enjoys driving the ski more from the front of the boot then I would look elsewhere.
Next year's Corvus is very different and has full reverse camber and a metal layer. Not skied the Navis.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks, that's really helpful to get your perspective! I am leaning towards atris or navis. Shame I didn't have the opportunity to test both those models!
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Hiya, I've got the 16/17 Atris at 184, 70kg at 175cm so about the same as you. I've also got guardians on it, although I haven't had the chance to do short tours on them yet.
I'll second everything gorilla has said, and would definitely recommend it over the navis if you're planning on using it in Japan as well. It's worked well for me so far on piste (although it's been a while since I've been on carving skis so I'm not sure my opinion on it is that valid!). For a wide ski, it definitely does perform well on piste though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@dank8223, couple of years ago at the SIGB test at Kuhtai I was "testing" touring skis, up and the down.
I skied around 12 skis and then for a break skied some big freeride skis, the Atris being one of them. At the time I wrote....
So back to the compound and quickly out on the Doug Coombs anniversary skis K2 Coomba 114 complete with 'retro graphics'. And what a great ski, or was it just the better conditions?
The K2 Coomba 114 is classed as a touring ski and does come in a smaller width of 104 which might be the more sensible option if touring longer into the season?
With my appetite now whetted I took the Black Crows Atris 184 at 108 out and what a fun, but capable ski managing the icy hard pack on the piste before dropping off down into the untracked glades between the trees. If I was not so much into touring this could well be the ski for me!
Fast forward to last year, and I'd lost a ski in a slide (108 Scott Cascade) I was caught in and mounted with Guardians so I was in the market for a ski that I was going to mount some more downhill orientated touring bindings on and skis that I'd use in Japan and occasionally tour on.
I bought the 184 Atris and mounted Tectons on and so far this season this has pretty well been my one quiver ski - I've done some big tours on them 1,400m and the additional weight has not been too much of a penalty - though majority of touring has been powder as we've yet to have spring.
I've probably clocked up well over 50 days on them and I'm currently on the look out for another pair as the shops start their end of season sales.
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Mmmmmm just seen some 2017 184 that I can get for €350
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Thanks for the replies. Very helpful and informative. Think I'm sold on the atris! Lowest I've seen on UK sites is £370 so €350 seems like a bargain @Weathercam!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Weathercam how did you find the Camox? I have been looking at that, the Volkl 90eight (which I have tried) and the Navis. Too limited in Leeds to trial skis!
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@Cookiandmilk, I thought the Camox was excellent. I'd have no hesitation buying it as an all mountain resort ski. I personally found it handles everything well from quick piste skiing, chopped up stuff and powder. The only thing it struggled with was very icy hardpack (however even those on piste skis were sliding about so perhaps unfair to say they handled less well than a piste ski). Didn't get to try the navis although that was the model I was looking at before deciding that the wider atris (which I've bought!) would suit me better.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Has anyone got experience on the Orb? I'd love to get the Atris, but realistically I spend far more time on ice/slush than powder (2 trips a year, early Jan and March). Don't know whether to compromise with the Camox or go for the extra stiffness of the Orb
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Relaunching this thread with a similar-ish question. I skied the Camox last week for half a day after a blizzard so the piste was very nice and the side powder was great. I *really* enjoyed it and found that the faster you went, the bigger the smile (really big smile, it was great fun). Unfortunately, it was the last day and I did not get a chance to demo the Navis. I am debating the Camox vs Navis as a one-ski quiver first buy, probably 70:30 piste:powder - any thoughts?
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I'm using Navis freebirds mounted with Frischi Tectons as a touring/ do everything ski although mostly off piste.
First season on them and after 3 weeks I've really grown to love the set up.
Managed to get a fantastic ,( and the very last week this year  ) in La grave with a mix of nice fresh snow ,hard pack and some heavy sticky stuff lower down , Skis felt v capable and well in tune with what ever was beneath them ,
If you are a 70/30 skier I would think the narrower camox would be more your ski tho' . Still a v good off piste ski but more stable on piste . And you have tried and liked them !
With the season grinding to an early finish there must be some bargains around.
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You know it makes sense.
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A mate of mine has the Atris, he loves them, no problems with him getting them on edge off piste.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@scarbski, im looking for exactly ur set up , but for backcountry only skiing , how do you find the weight for big ish days ??
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, Weight is fine, are you thinking they are heavy ? I've changed from a heavier ski/ Marker tour binding set up so they feel light to me.
Weigh in at 2.36kg / side inc binding with a Scott cosmos boot at 1.5kg/foot.
I've done some reasonable (for me) climbs, 700m+ and long off piste days in variable conditions with no problems.
I did wonder if I would miss the larger rocker of my old Movement skis but I haven't. If anything I think the big rocker caused me to lift out excessively.
I chose the Tectons for the safety claims and the front/rear din release settings .
would def recommend !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Navis Freebird. Super good.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@scarbski, cheers for that , maybe on the heavier side of things , and looking at a bit bigger days than that , but I do really like the tecton and have realised im happy to work a little harder on the up to have a ski that's works well on the descent and also as you say in the other variable conditions found along the way , just got to wait for the bargains to start to appear .
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I've used regular Navis (not freebird) + Shift as a daily driver in Chamonix for the past 2 seasons and been very happy. I've gone from a 70:30 piste/off piste to a 20:80 on them. They've been great and grown with me including getting more and more into touring. It's not a mega light setup but fine for tours of a few hours and great on the descent. Camox are a similar ski but with more of a hard snow focus. If you're looking to spend more time off piste in the coming years then I'd go for Navis or even Atris.
When they die I'll probably go for something 105-110 as a daily driver with some 120s for powder days.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was chatting to the Black Crows rep at a recent trade show to try and understand the difference between the Freebird range. I think as an all rounder the extra stiffness in the Navis is worth having if you are using the ski in resort as well as touring. Going forward I'll be tempted to go narrower, likely Camox but there are some tempting deals to be had on the Orb right now.
Navis Freebird + Shifts = 1 quiver ski. (Or Rad 2's if you are not hitting jumps or bumps).
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@AndAnotherThing.., interested to hear what your insight was from the show , I have the new ferox freebird for those days when there's lots of fresh on offer , and its a fantastic bit of kit , but its just a bit heavy and a bit wide with just a bit to much tail rocker for longer tours with firmer snow and some ski mountaineering involved , but have realised after touring on them in canada this winter , its not all about weight and the extra work is rewarded with a great ski down , so now am torn between navis or camox , this ski will be predominantly for the back country apart from days that involve returning through the resort .. in the length I will ski there a stated weight difference of about 350g per foot , so although not insignificant that bit extra not a concern , will mitigate it bit using light weight minimalist skins on a wider ski , binding will be tecton or mtn , still torn on that too ,
ps for me this is not a one quiver ski , but one specifically for touring , I also have the bent chetler 100 with shift combo for resort and side country , which is amazing btw
any beta would be useful 
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As some know I have two pairs of Atris, liked the first, mounted with Tectons so much, when I spotted another pair end of the season made a stupid offer and have those mounted with Marker F12 so I can ski with Alpine boots.
I've done one feck of a load of deep powder touring on them, Japan, Siberia (though pow is light) though the climbs tended to be 500m x 2, that said I also did a week-long hut to hut on them with some big climbs as well as back home, many a tour, a lot of slack, backcountry touring / skiing.
Great thing I love about them is that they can ski all types of snow so well, especially crust /crud etc with confidence, and they handle the piste pretty well!
That said back end Dec I bought some Scott 105 SuperGuides mounted with Xenics and they are rapidly becoming my go-to touring ski, as that setup is so damn light compared to the BC's and there seems to be not a lot of difference 
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@Dabber, got to be the Camox Freebird for the low weight surely given the other good options you already have?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Dabber, for big days I’d go as light as possible. Kaestle / Xenic (when it doesn’t fall off) / Zero G has been a revelation on the couple of long days I’ve done. 500 - 600m fine on the Shift.
They’ve sent me a new toe piece for the Xenic so I’m going to try locking it and test it out to see what happens
Some good deals around!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@BobinCH, spent this arvo comparing the ferox/navis/camox and do agree with you , too much crossover with the navis / ferox .... so camox is the one I reckon
ps good luck with xenic , it did ski well , but scared the life out of me when 15 k from home and havin to use pole and all my might to lock in ,, never had an issue on cold low snow days , but as soon as it got proper west coast they just would not lock in 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Dabber, the new lever (or @Westhercam’s hack) seemed to fix the hard to lock lever for me. It’s the pre-releasing on the down that really caused the trouble. Hoping locking the toe fully will deal with that. Will be trying it out on some non exposed terrain first. It’s an expensive setup which tours great and having also invested in the shims seems a shame to ditch... Did like the look of the Faction Agents - might be worth a try.
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FAQ
and still have very faint hopes of getting out to Svalbard in June 
