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Refunds and cancellations - who have been the good guys?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Masque, You're slating individuals for wanting to reclaim/hold on to what is theirs in the interests of personal/family security* yet not a word of criticism for the tourist industry businesses that chose to operate so finely on the margin that many are effectively being proven to be a ponzi scheme where future bookings cover the costs of providing the existing service. No thoughts that maybe thse businesses/individuals should have built more of a buffer themselves?

*And lets be honest - most working people who do not have the benefit of mega salaries and bonuses don't build up significant buffers by allowing people to take their money off them for nothing.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I just wanted to provide an update on Le Ski. They finally refunded in full. I empathise with their plight however I'm glad I have my money back.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Esprit Ski (Part of the HotelPlan group, as are Inghams and Ski Total) have been great to us. When our holiday was cancelled in Belle Plagne they initially emailed offering a vouchers or a discount off re-booking for next season, I replied asking for a refund and about 2 weeks later they got in touch to confirm. About three days later I had the money in my account. I had paid on credit card, but they were able to send refund to my account, as requested. They have offered a small discount off next season if I book before October. I have a 3 year old and have been on 3 Esprit holidays with her. The child care is excellent and I really hope they survive this so we can book with them for next season.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
@Masque, You're slating individuals for wanting to reclaim/hold on to what is theirs in the interests of personal/family security* yet not a word of criticism for the tourist industry businesses that chose to operate so finely on the margin that many are effectively being proven to be a ponzi scheme where future bookings cover the costs of providing the existing service. No thoughts that maybe thse businesses/individuals should have built more of a buffer themselves?

*And lets be honest - most working people who do not have the benefit of mega salaries and bonuses don't build up significant buffers by allowing people to take their money off them for nothing.


Yes, 100% to the last point especially.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
blacksheep wrote:
I just wanted to provide an update on Le Ski. They finally refunded in full. I empathise with their plight however I'm glad I have my money back.


great news, just curious on the change of heart at their end. did you merely request a refund or something else?
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sugref wrote:
Esprit Ski (Part of the HotelPlan group, as are Inghams and Ski Total) have been great to us. When our holiday was cancelled in Belle Plagne they initially emailed offering a vouchers or a discount off re-booking for next season, I replied asking for a refund and about 2 weeks later they got in touch to confirm. About three days later I had the money in my account. I had paid on credit card, but they were able to send refund to my account, as requested. They have offered a small discount off next season if I book before October. I have a 3 year old and have been on 3 Esprit holidays with her. The child care is excellent and I really hope they survive this so we can book with them for next season.


Sounds like you've had good communication and ultimately good customer service, hopefully they will get rewarded with an early booking from you (and many other people) so that they can get some much needed cash in the tills as early as possible.

It's the first point to me which is key. I understand that some companies may not be able to offer refunds as it may mean they go out of business, but the minimum I expect is have a level of communication. In the three weeks since the announcement, I've been met with a wall of silence or out of office responses from companies I've contacted. It'll be this reason, more than the lack of refund, that makes me reconsider booking with them next year.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Esprit tell me they refunded my bank account via debit card for full cost of cancelled holiday on 19th March. Same with HomeAway.com for another booking. Nothing received at my end yet. Is anyone else experiencing a long delay between confirmation of refund and receipt of monies?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
oldschool72 wrote:
Esprit tell me they refunded my bank account via debit card for full cost of cancelled holiday on 19th March. Same with HomeAway.com for another booking. Nothing received at my end yet. Is anyone else experiencing a long delay between confirmation of refund and receipt of monies?


Esprit got in touch with me on the 26th March to confirm the refund and I had the money in my account on the 31st March. I had to send them my account details otherwise they would have refunded onto the card I paid with. I think you should give them a call.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Jet2 promised a flight refund within 28 days and have refunded it within 10. Ryanair promised a refund within 7 days but now on day 9 and still waiting.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, What about those people who had their holiday and came back and soon after found their source of income had dried up. They will be struggling too.

Fortunately I managed to have my holiday and my pension income is at present not affected which lets me see both sides of the argument in a dispassionnate way. I do appreciate how desparate some people must be trying to feed their families knowing that money they have paid for a holiday they have not been able to have would make a huge difference. I can also sympathise with businesses that have also lost their income. There are real people dependant on that income as well. As I see it nearly everyone involved is a loser. There don't seem to be any winners.

I just hope things work out for everyone. Stay well
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Rabbie wrote:
@Dave of the Marmottes, What about those people who had their holiday and came back and soon after found their source of income had dried up. They will be struggling too.



Yes but they have had the services for their money and that is done and dusted. I have a bit of a problem with the suggestion that a holiday of any kind is a frivolity that people can easily afford to give up financially. I think for many people it's an essential part of their mental health management. Plus I dislike value judgements being made - skiing is a big part of my life so I prioritise time and spend in that area but I've never had a kitchen refit or a new sofa. People would be probably be up in arms about a working family being stiffed by a kitchen contractor or a furniture company.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
People would be probably be up in arms about a working family being stiffed by a kitchen contractor or a furniture company.

Hence my bricklayer(or fill in with any other trade)post earlier.

If Wren didnt fit a kitchen this past week that was booked in. I'm pretty sure no one would offer to pay again down the line when its all over.
Out if interest what package/help has the French/Swiss/Austrian goverments offered to workers now not able to work, Does anyone know?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
spyderjon wrote:
Pruman wrote:
....This is not the time to be feeling sorry for businesses. Many are going to fail.

But if you can claim on your insurance instead and (help) save that business then that's a good thing.


Good luck with that, I have finally had my complaint against our house {buildings/contents} Insurance company upheld, this is after eighteen months whereby I took it to the Ombudsman.

The Insurance company 'voided' my policy when I made a claim for an EOW on an alleged 'non disclosure' when I purchased it, this was after I had renewed it for a second year, same procedure had been implemented.

I went through there internal complaints procedure, complete white wash & waste of time...then issued a formal complaint to the Ombudsman.

This was eventually referred to an Adjudicator, 10 months later (they are very busy apparently) who was completely useless, I pointed out the error of his findings and it was clear either he hadn't read the full complaint file which I submitted or it was beyond his capacity.

I was then given the opportunity to have the case referred to the 'Ombudsman' which he stated would be some time, possibly a further 8 months...

Finally, December 2019 I received notification that the Ombudsman had reviewed my complaint and upheld it...to say I was delighted would be an understatement!

However, this was not the end of the saga, I had to accept/decline the findings, which I did, but the Insurance company had the opportunity to appeal their decision, fortunately they didn't. It then took a further six weeks for them to finally pay the EOW claim together with compensation as instructed by the Ombudsman.

Therefore, as stated above, good luck with chasing your Insurers, my experience is that they will fight tooth & nail to decline any claim and most customers will accept that as final.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
As a matter of interest, what was there accusation of the "non disclosure"?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
jafa wrote:
As a matter of interest, what was there accusation of the "non disclosure"?


Past history, they asked one question, which covered four separate key issues which I confirmed, yes to.

They then argued that I hadn't specifically answered all for questions.

My argument being, why hadn't they queried further if they thought it necessary now, the Ombudsman upheld my complaint, therefore I was vindicated.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Seems a little harsh. Im assuming a direct case with an Insurer? You would surprise me if a broker was involved.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
jafa wrote:
Seems a little harsh. Im assuming a direct case with an Insurer? You would surprise me if a broker was involved.


No, this was a policy I took out over the phone with a broker, and it was the broker that emailed me to 'void' the policy!

The thing is when I complained to the Broker they side stepped it, told me to deal direct with the Insurance company, of whom I hadn't had any previous dealings with, they then put me onto the Underwriters, talk about 'passing the buck' that was one of the biggest challenges, who was I to formally complain about to the Ombudsman.

The point I am trying to make is that (from my own personal experience) when dealing with an Insurance company it is a minefield and the Insurance company I had contracted with tried every underhand method to evade paying out under the policy which they had agreed to (two consecutive years) even after their Loss Adjustor had approved the claim.

It was interesting to read their file notes and opinions on their clients, these were documents which I received when my claim made to the Ombudsman, it was tantamount to libel in some instances, I kid you not...

It was blatantly clear that the 'documents' had been filtered as the paper trail exposed this, I never did get an answer to my allegation from either the Ombudsman or Insurers, make of that what you will.

To reiterate, good luck with making a successful claim on your holiday insurance.

BTW: we were due to fly out to Les Arcs 25/03/20 with an independant operator (as a package holiday, flight accommodation, lift passes) who have offered us the same holiday next year or a voucher with a 5% uplift, we have requested our money back as this doesn't appeal to us atm.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Mr_frosty wrote:
blacksheep wrote:
I just wanted to provide an update on Le Ski. They finally refunded in full. I empathise with their plight however I'm glad I have my money back.


great news, just curious on the change of heart at their end. did you merely request a refund or something else?


I tried to explain my situation that a credit was no good to me (a number of reasons but some personal ones) and stuck to my request for a refund. After 14 days I explained I was been left with using Sect 75 as I paid on credit card. This along with the fact the government hadn't changed the legislation meant they were reasonable and provided the refund.
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Yesterday I said ...

Davina Goldballs wrote:

As of this moment, I'd imagine that £100smillions are sitting in the bank accounts of travel enterprises, all over the place.


In response, 'chaletcompanyconfidential' gave this somewhat emotional response ...

chaletcompanyconfidential wrote:
Locally in the French Alps the level of heartbreak within the ski industry is huge. I don't know of a single person who runs a company in the ski industry who is sat on a bank account full of cash, rubbing their hands at the idea of 4 to 6 weeks of holidays/services that have been paid for that they don't have to provide.


Which begs the question: has all the money simply vanished into thin Alpine air?

'snowdave' added ...

snowdave wrote:

In one commentator's imaginary world "£100smillions are sitting in the bank accounts of travel enterprises, all over the place". A quick look at the accounts of any large travel group would show that's not the case. The money has been spent, there's not much to give back ...


Agreed that "imaginary worlds" are best avoided in this crisis. The authoritative travel correspondent of The Independent, Simon Calder, said this on 22 March ...

Simon Calder wrote:
An estimated two million overseas package holidays were due to depart in the first 30 days of the government’s warning against non-essential travel, running from 17 March to 16 April 2020. They have all been cancelled – representing around £1bn that the law insists should be paid back to consumers.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/package-holiday-refund-rules-suspended-abta-coronavirus-a9417261.html

Yes, you read it right: "around £1bn". On my maths that's 10 x £100m ... much of which has been sloshing around in the bank accounts of countless travel enterprises over the 17 days since the FCO advised against all overseas non-essential travel. It hasn't been spent on anything. It's being held for holidays that no longer exist.

Repeating Simon Calder: the law insists that money should be paid pack to consumers. And repeating what I said yesterday, Regulation 14 of The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018 says:

"... the organiser must reimburse any payments made by or on behalf of the traveller, having deducted any termination fee. Any ... refund ... must be made to the traveller without undue delay and in any event not later than 14 days after the package travel contract is terminated.

Good to see a couple more examples (above) of travel businesses doing the right thing. Well done Le Ski and Esprit Ski.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
[quote="michaelbury17"]
jafa wrote:
Seems a little harsh. Im assuming a direct case with an Insurer? You would surprise me if a broker was involved.


No, this was a policy I took out over the phone with a broker, and it was the broker that emailed me to 'void' the policy!


I`m sorry to hear this. As a Broker myself, I cant believe that this could happen. Id be on the phone myself talking to the Insurance Company trying to get the claim settled in the first instance. I think unfortunately as you done the policy through a broker over the telephone, I suspect as there was no relationship in place was where the initial problem started. They would have had the telephone call recorded, and if they asked the question and you answered it honestly (because the ombudsman saw in your favour) then there is no reason why they couldn't have resolved it. I suspect finally it was because they didn't want to and hoped you`d not take it beyond them /Insurance Company. Not acceptable I`m just glad you were successful in the end.
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Action Outdoors have been superb at refunding the cost of their holidays: no quibble, just a brief e-mail asking people to please be patient and all my money back with a couple of weeks.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Dave of the Marmottes, I'm too f'n tired to get into the minutiae of the argument, I've another long, rush med run to Wa.
It boils down to this:
We are greedy, we cut our cloth to suit our purse and when that purse is full . . . today we spend it on 'cloth of gold'. Those of us with the wherewithal to indulge ourselves with what is a significantly expensive leisure pursuit also have the option to protect our families with that wherewithal. But far too many don't. That is egregiously selfish. Because when things go titsup as they have; They go straight down the Anne Rand hypocrisy highway Evil or Very Mad (look it up) Becoming a drain on central government resources that are needed not just for medical or logistical use but also for the part of our society that is genuinely struggling and never had the ability to 'save for a rainy day'.
When some prat moans about a friend who's been doing well is now having problems less than a month into this crap . . . All that tells me is that he has even less idea than the friend's lifestyle choices re. their business model.

Did none of you goldfish brained idiots remember 2008? nor H1N1? Life turns into a handful of turds roughly every nine years rolling eyes

You who could have cushioned yourselves (and I've no doubt that some have) contribute to exacerbating the problem. Your lack of planning doesn't just cause commercial problems, it also contributes to time wasted within our government systems as they try to support industries that are failing not just because we're locked in our cellars but also because we are demanding that they fail . . . 'cos we want our money back Evil or Very Mad

I'm not rich, I work harder than most of you for every penny. But I didn't pester admin for a refund and every week I buy a couple of dried food meals to add to the storage box of emergency food in storage that I may never need but will be there with a hand pump water filter if I ever do.

It's not expensive to prepare for the situation we're in and it doesn't mean that we forego our sport. It just needs us to be a little fiscally proactive. Whinging about a situation that you are essentially responsible for . . . is lame Embarassed and for me I would be deeply shameful if I thought or knew that my lack of forethought and planning contributed additional hardship to those less fortunate or lengthened the time and cost to my society!

Now f'k t'lot of ya; I have 6 hospital stops in Washington on monday and I'm more than 2000 miles from the first.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Masque, a great post from a great person. one quick question, how did such a great person end up homeless and on his back bottom twice with all the financial planning the aforementioned great person lectures all other plebs about?
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Mother hucker wrote:
@Masque, a great post from a great person. one quick question, how did such a great person end up homeless and on his back bottom twice with all the financial planning the aforementioned great person lectures all other plebs about?


Great question. You'll get a very salty answer, I'm sure.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Masque, the core point remains though you are saying the individual who has not made adequate provision is selfish, greedy and foolish but the business (who ultimately is more individuals) that has not made adequate provision is not selfish, greedy and foolish. Hmm any hypocrisy there?

Or put it another way how would you feel about driving trucks all month and your employer then to say to you "yeah we know you'd like the pay we owe but truth is we've got some financing to pay on our fleet and need money ourselves so we can't afford what we owe you - claim on your insurance - what you didn't take out insurance covering against a company failing to pay what they legally and contractually owe you - that's on you"

And yes FWIW it annoys me no end on a personal level that when a crisis comes around those who have lived large on the house upgrades, new kitchens and bathrooms every few years, high end Merc and Range Rover in the driveway, permatan from long haul holidays ( or whatever variants there are at lower income levels) are the first bleating about not being able to pay the mortgage. But what at least UK society has shown us is that there is no premium on being prudent and generally you can get away with being pretty reckless and still have the taxpayer in general bail you out because the economic engine is built on continuous consumerism.
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I booked a DIY holiday for a week from the 11th of April for my 50th birthday.
The flights were with easyjet which upto press has only cancelled my outgoing flight and offered my a voucher. The transfers were booked on the easyjet website but were with Holiday Taxis who have fully refunded both to and from trips.
My accommodation, ski equipment, lift passes and ski school for the kids was all booked through Ski Planet. I Emailed them as soon as the ski areas were closed enquiring about a refund but got no response after a week so emailed them again to which I got a reply basically saying we're busy and we won't reply at present.
Yesterday I got an email stating that new government legislation was passed on 25/3/20 and they would onlygive me a credit note.
Now my issue is that I'd booked this holiday with 2 families so that makes the logistics of any future holiday to be booked with the vouchers a lot more difficult. This is the first time since having kids I've booked a ski holiday because its an extravagance that we can't usually afford, booked specifically to celebrate my 50th which I'm now going to be celebrating in my front room Crying or Very sad
I'd rather have the money back to decide whether I and the other family want to go away next year but that's looking unlikely.
Plus I'm guessing the prices will go up to cover their losses this year so any voucher won't fully cover the same services so extra expense.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
For those who have booked a trip with an ABTOT bonded agent, please see their info for customers:

https://www.abtot.com/coronavirus-advice-for-abtot-members-customers/

People may find the following information useful:

If you are not able to postpone, your ABTOT Member may offer you a Refund Credit Note instead of an immediate cash refund. This Refund Credit Note can be used to book another holiday at a later date and, in the meantime, it is protected by ABTOT/ ATOL if your original booking had that protection, so you would be reimbursed if they failed financially. Further details on this option are below:
-This protection will last until 31 March 2021 at which point, if you have not used the Refund Credit Note to book another holiday, you will be entitled to a cash refund.
-The value of the Refund Credit Note must be equal in value to the monies you have actually paid for the protected travel arrangements.
-The Refund Credit Note must not include any other amount offered as a rebooking incentive or other offer.
-Any such offers must be documented separately and are not covered by any scheme of financial protection.
-The Refund Credit Note must expressly identify the original booking reference and attach a copy of the cancelled Booking Confirmation / Cancellation Invoice and, where appropriate, ATOL Certificate.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
papajc wrote:
I booked a DIY holiday for a week from the 11th of April for my 50th birthday.
The flights were with easyjet which upto press has only cancelled my outgoing flight and offered my a voucher. The transfers were booked on the easyjet website but were with Holiday Taxis who have fully refunded both to and from trips.
My accommodation, ski equipment, lift passes and ski school for the kids was all booked through Ski Planet. I Emailed them as soon as the ski areas were closed enquiring about a refund but got no response after a week so emailed them again to which I got a reply basically saying we're busy and we won't reply at present.
Yesterday I got an email stating that new government legislation was passed on 25/3/20 and they would onlygive me a credit note.
Now my issue is that I'd booked this holiday with 2 families so that makes the logistics of any future holiday to be booked with the vouchers a lot more difficult. This is the first time since having kids I've booked a ski holiday because its an extravagance that we can't usually afford, booked specifically to celebrate my 50th which I'm now going to be celebrating in my front room Crying or Very sad
I'd rather have the money back to decide whether I and the other family want to go away next year but that's looking unlikely.
Plus I'm guessing the prices will go up to cover their losses this year so any voucher won't fully cover the same services so extra expense.


I'm not aware of any legislation saying that. I believe there was a 'recommendation' but not a legal change. Ask them to provide evidence of the change. Did you pay on credit card? I'd start a section 75 chargeback.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Ski planet are a French company so maybe the law has been changed there. I'd still go down the section 75 if you can. credit notes are useless for the reasons you mention.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
blacksheep wrote:
papajc wrote:
I booked a DIY holiday for a week from the 11th of April for my 50th birthday.
The flights were with easyjet which upto press has only cancelled my outgoing flight and offered my a voucher. The transfers were booked on the easyjet website but were with Holiday Taxis who have fully refunded both to and from trips.
My accommodation, ski equipment, lift passes and ski school for the kids was all booked through Ski Planet. I Emailed them as soon as the ski areas were closed enquiring about a refund but got no response after a week so emailed them again to which I got a reply basically saying we're busy and we won't reply at present.
Yesterday I got an email stating that new government legislation was passed on 25/3/20 and they would onlygive me a credit note.
Now my issue is that I'd booked this holiday with 2 families so that makes the logistics of any future holiday to be booked with the vouchers a lot more difficult. This is the first time since having kids I've booked a ski holiday because its an extravagance that we can't usually afford, booked specifically to celebrate my 50th which I'm now going to be celebrating in my front room Crying or Very sad
I'd rather have the money back to decide whether I and the other family want to go away next year but that's looking unlikely.
Plus I'm guessing the prices will go up to cover their losses this year so any voucher won't fully cover the same services so extra expense.


I'm not aware of any legislation saying that. I believe there was a 'recommendation' but not a legal change. Ask them to provide evidence of the change. Did you pay on credit card? I'd start a section 75 chargeback.


Nope foolishly paid on debit card.

Their office appears to be in France so has there been any legislation passed in France?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just a question on the S 75 stuff because I genuinely don't know the answer - if a business ends up with a number of S 75 claims against them do they not end up being blacklisted by the credit card providers or at the very least having materially increased costs to process payments? S75 is traditionally used when your supplier goes bust, here it seems to be being used when the supplier is refusing to obey its legal obligations?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
papajc wrote:
blacksheep wrote:
papajc wrote:
I booked a DIY holiday for a week from the 11th of April for my 50th birthday.
The flights were with easyjet which upto press has only cancelled my outgoing flight and offered my a voucher. The transfers were booked on the easyjet website but were with Holiday Taxis who have fully refunded both to and from trips.
My accommodation, ski equipment, lift passes and ski school for the kids was all booked through Ski Planet. I Emailed them as soon as the ski areas were closed enquiring about a refund but got no response after a week so emailed them again to which I got a reply basically saying we're busy and we won't reply at present.
Yesterday I got an email stating that new government legislation was passed on 25/3/20 and they would onlygive me a credit note.
Now my issue is that I'd booked this holiday with 2 families so that makes the logistics of any future holiday to be booked with the vouchers a lot more difficult. This is the first time since having kids I've booked a ski holiday because its an extravagance that we can't usually afford, booked specifically to celebrate my 50th which I'm now going to be celebrating in my front room Crying or Very sad
I'd rather have the money back to decide whether I and the other family want to go away next year but that's looking unlikely.
Plus I'm guessing the prices will go up to cover their losses this year so any voucher won't fully cover the same services so extra expense.


I'm not aware of any legislation saying that. I believe there was a 'recommendation' but not a legal change. Ask them to provide evidence of the change. Did you pay on credit card? I'd start a section 75 chargeback.


Nope foolishly paid on debit card.

Their office appears to be in France so has there been any legislation passed in France?


Talk to your bank, they still may be able to do a chargeback or similar.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
First time posting on this thread. Thought I'd share this item from BBC Money Box

Quote:
Coronavirus: Your travel queries answered.

In recent weeks the Money Box inbox has been inundated with your queries and questions about travel and holiday issues. So we invited Simon Calder, travel editor at The Independent, to shed some light on some of the most common problems people are facing.


Link to listen is: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p088h4qw
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https://www.abta.com/news/coronavirus-outbreak
snow conditions
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
We have Dave Froom from ifyouski.com covering this topic in the latest episode of The Ski Podcast (53mins in)
https://audioboom.com/posts/7547116-52-the-aspen-ski-thief-graham-bell-s-hausenkamm-andermatt

BTW I was refunded by easyski - ski school in Alpe d'Huez within a week of the resort closing.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Just a question on the S 75 stuff because I genuinely don't know the answer - if a business ends up with a number of S 75 claims against them do they not end up being blacklisted by the credit card providers or at the very least having materially increased costs to process payments? S75 is traditionally used when your supplier goes bust, here it seems to be being used when the supplier is refusing to obey its legal obligations?


It's very uncomfortable for the supplier because they will end up with a negative balance, especially if all the activity on the account is charge-backs and not many (if any) transactions taking place of new business. So then they find themselves being pursued by the card companies and that alone might send companies diving for administration.

Also, people think you can only go for a charge-back on a credit card purchase. Actually your bank can and will also instigate a debit card charge-back if you ask them to and they agree. That probably quadruples the problem.

The upshot of everything that's going on is that many travel companies are going to go to the wall whether or not they persuade clients to go for refund vouchers or rebooking. They owe their own customers money, they owe suppliers and they may also owe their staff, landlords, leasing companies etc etc. If they are Ltd companies the Directors will be forced to act and I suspect they will be looking at whatever cash balances they have left and planning pre-pack administrations. I doubt very much that bonding could withstand the sheer volume of claims and I'd be surprised if the Government steps in to save the day, because they probably can't. Vouchers and rebookings could so easily be worthless.

That Ski Podcast is interesting. Mr Froom sets out the issue in an ordered way and basically confirms what kind of ponzi scheme the travel market has become.
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@papajc,
Quote:

Their office appears to be in France so has there been any legislation passed in France?


I think so. Had a situation where I cancelled a French hotel booking. It was more than 8 days in advance, so should have been without charge as that was the hotel's own booking conditions, but they would only give me a credit for the deposit already paid (just 40 euros, so no biggie). The email exchange was all in French, so my translation perhaps not perfect, but there was much talk of some "Official Decree" being the reason for not refunding.
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
@Masque, the core point remains though you are saying the individual who has not made adequate provision is selfish, greedy and foolish but the business (who ultimately is more individuals) that has not made adequate provision is not selfish, greedy and foolish. Hmm any hypocrisy there?...

I see the difference as being that it is reasonable to expect individuals to be able to absorb the cost of a single lost holiday (and as been said, it is actually loss of the holiday rather than a financial loss, as the expenditure had been committed). But it is difficult to argue that any business could or should have foreseen the current situation, under which hundreds of customers want their money back at the same time, through no fault of the business.

Should businesses have been collecting an extra £100-200 from every client, every year in the past, to allow for that possibility? Should they do that next year, and every year thereafter, in case it happens again in 5 years time? (And not just TOs, airlines, and accommodation providers, but most other retailers and service buinesses as well?). In the long term that approach would cost all of us a lot more. Or should we accept that companies didn't really do anything wrong in this situation, and some of us need to accept loss of a holiday, so that good companies will still be around in the future?
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Well tif group can go on my black list. Their response below seems similar to others. To be clear, there was no advice not to travel when we left but we had to curtail our trip after two days in Corvara when everything was locked down.


"Dear Mr

TRAVEL INSURANCE CLAIM - REF: URV445601

Thank you for your claim form and supporting documentation, we are sorry to hear you had to return home early.
On review of your policy wording, it states we will only cover you to return home earl due to the specific points mentioned in the policy. The points mentioned on page 16 of your policy wording are:
- your early return home because of the death, injury or illness of: - you or a friend with whom you are travelling; - a close relative who lives in your home country; - a close business associate who lives in your home country; or - a friend who lives abroad and with whom you are staying with
- you, a friend or close relative who is travelling with you being required in your home country for jury service or as a witness in a court of law,
- you, a friend, business associate or close relative who is travelling with you being called back by the Police after your home, or the home in your home country of your friend, business associate or close relative, or usual place of business in your home country, having suffered from burglary, serious fire, storm or flood.
As your reason for curtailment does not fall into the categories listed, we are sorry to advise we are unable to process your claim at this time.
We appreciate this is not the outcome you would have hoped and we are sorry that we cannot assist you with a more positive response. However, it may be advisable to contact your tour operator to see if they can refund you."
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
chaletcompanyconfidential wrote:


As someone else has said, the companies refunding tend to be

1 - Middle men like skiset, or AirBnB
2 - Companies with govt backed refund schemes - ESF
3 - A very small handful of small independents (and fair play to them).


Airbnb refunding might sound good to the consumer, but as the property owner/manager it's a nightmare. They basically changed their own T&Cs with no notice. We suddenly had guests cancelling and our potential earnings are zero. They have backtracked now and we are getting max 25%.
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