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Refunds and cancellations - who have been the good guys?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
PBJ wrote:
@spyderjon, I v agree entirely ... its a nightmare scenario for suppliers much more so than clients.
I’ll applaud BA - sat now in DEN waiting flight back 2 days early no charge.
They have also refunded in full a May trip planned.


that's interesting... I got £39 out of £100 refunded for my April flight.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Easy to say "claim on your insurance" but check the small print, my annual insurance says:

We will not pay for:

 Losses arising from a government order or
categorised epidemic or pandemic.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Very good response from Cystal. The same email telling us that the trip was off was the one telling us we'd get our money back in 4 days and an offer of £75 off pp for a winter 20/21 booking made before the end of June.

Nadenoodlee wrote:
This is going to be incredibly one sided. People are going to go out of business - this kind of thread may well hasten that.


I'd disagree. Yes some people will go out of business as a result of this and that's terrible but also beyond our control as punters. What we CAN do is remember those that treated us well this year when it comes to making our bookings for the 20/21 season. So if your tour operator was a dick about it don't use them, use one of the ones posted in this thread who weren't dicks. If you were booking direct with a small, independent chalet or hotel and they gave you a refund try to organise your 20/21 trip sooner rather than later and re-book with them - deposits aren't much but it's usually cash flow that kills small businesses so every little helps (just use a credit card/have insurance in case the worst does happen).
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exx3001 wrote:
>FFS people, the loss of your weeks skiing is a first world problem! Yes you've lost a week of fun and a few memories/pics but you've not 'lost' any money as you were spending it anyway.
@spyderjon, Indeed, it's a first world problem and skiing is definitely a first world privilege... I do apologize for focusing on my £7K+ in jeopardy and my worries about receiving a P45 next year. Admittedly, it's not much when a lot of people are going to die. That said, the future of any ski-related business is not worth much either for the same reasons.

Macron ordering a shutdown is just what any responsible business should have done earlier without being coerced to. Any business, whatever its size. Insurances are primarily expected to cover issues on the customer side. If they can't handle the real world then business should insure themselves. I don't have insurance because I would have handled risks on my side.
Honestly, if a business can't suck this up and put the customer first then they should go bust. They are doing something wrong and they may as well leave the space to a responsible business that will be of value to society.


Putting it simply this is not a "normal" business condition. Its not something that could have been predicted and planned for. There is sucking it up and putting the customer first and then there is losing a third of your annual trade with no change to your fixed costs. Large corporations would struggle to cope with this! I feel for you and the £7k you have outlayed and now want back and yes I feel you should be able to get it back, but to criticize chalet operators or TO's for doing something wrong in the face of a Global Pandemic is a little rich. Maybe, what TO's and Chalet operators needed to do was charge more initially to cover the potential cost of a pandemic.....to build in a profit margin that allowed the to ride out once in a hundred year events. If they had though you would probably be screaming blue murder that the price of you skiing holiday was closer to £10k!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I know the perception of skiing and snows ports holidays is that it's a rich man's pastime, but not all of us that go are rich and can afford to lose our holiday. Some of us have saved all year to pay for our holiday that we are no longer going to be able to take due to circumstances beyond our control.
I'm getting a little annoyed by some of the replies suggesting that we should just suck up our loses
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@FrediKanoute, maybe I am a cynic but I suspect that the margin TOs budget for contingencies gets distributed as profit if everything runs smoothly in-year. No one allows a huge reserve to build up - if they did they would be a takeover target for a company wanting to strip them of cash. But they will have made a decision about what to insure against, and if they hadn't insured against external events causing an income drop of this magnitude then that was because they made the gamble they could ride out a crisis.

But I do hope one way or another they survive to give people pleasurable holidays next year.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
And where can she go?!!@sugarmoma666,
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
AirBnB (or rather the property owner) was immediate in refunding what's we'd paid too secure the property in Arinsal - Must be a hard situation for them but their integrity was greatly appreciated. The accommodation will be on the list for future trips though, looked pretty bloody awesome.

Ryanair currently haven't refunded because our flight is April 2nd, so falls just outside of this refund/rebook thing they've announced. I'm sure as things progress, we'll get the email from them about what to do next but I've kind of written off the money for now.

Thankfully I'd held off paying for lift passes, car hire, accommodation in Barcelona for a night.... so we're relatively unscathed compared to some people who seem to have been hit hard.
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j b wrote:
@FrediKanoute, maybe I am a cynic but I suspect that the margin TOs budget for contingencies gets distributed as profit if everything runs smoothly in-year. No one allows a huge reserve to build up - if they did they would be a takeover target for a company wanting to strip them of cash. But they will have made a decision about what to insure against, and if they hadn't insured against external events causing an income drop of this magnitude then that was because they made the gamble they could ride out a crisis.

But I do hope one way or another they survive to give people pleasurable holidays next year.


You need cash to distribute. Yes you can declare dividends out of profits, but unless there is cash to pay them it is pretty pointless. Are we convinced that TO's and Chalet operators are raking in large amounts of uncommitted cash? I'm not. If I was a chalet operator I would be re-investing that cash in more chalets, because that would increase scale.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
ALPINRESORTS - Good guys! Booked my ski hire through them & courteous instant refund processed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Booked Instructor led Guiding in Tignes with Ski Club GB next week. Received an email this am to confirm cancelled. Just called and arranged money back to my card. Good service Smile
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
hawkesbaynz wrote:
Booked Instructor led Guiding in Tignes with Ski Club GB next week. Received an email this am to confirm cancelled. Just called and arranged money back to my card. Good service Smile

what is the instructor led guiding like?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Specialman wrote:
AirBnB (or rather the property owner) was immediate in refunding what's we'd paid too secure the property in Arinsal - Must be a hard situation for them but their integrity was greatly appreciated. The accommodation will be on the list for future trips though, looked pretty bloody awesome.

Thankfully I'd held off paying for lift passes, car hire, accommodation in Barcelona for a night.... so we're relatively unscathed compared to some people who seem to have been hit hard.


Yes, I think there are opportunities for businesses to get good customer PR. I'll make a point of using the Airbnb accommodation next year if possible, as they have been superb. Car rental were also good and lift passes should be fine. Oxygene ski school stated that they are current looking at whether they refund, while I hear that Prosneige and ESF have already refunded. Things like this could sway my decision of which ski school I book next year.

Quote:
Ryanair currently haven't refunded because our flight is April 2nd, so falls just outside of this refund/rebook thing they've announced. I'm sure as things progress, we'll get the email from them about what to do next but I've kind of written off the money for now.


Yes, I noticed this and Easyjet are the same - I guess they're playing it week by week, but also because from April they'll have a hell of lot of money tied up in Easter school holiday flights (especially after seeing of the prices people were paying for flight tickets for Easter hols), so won't want to extend to this period unless they really have to. Which I assume they will.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Shout out to Hotel Beauregard, Montagne a Morzine. Initially, I thought that I had paid it all in full, but I had booked through Booking.com with a non refundable 30% deposit. Hotel agreed to waive the deposit and refunded immediately. Great to see from a small hotel and hopefully I'll be booking there next year as a result
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
My son and his friends have a post-graduation holiday booked with Jet2 Holidays for June, the balance of which is due 31/3. What to do, given things may still be in flux by then and we will have paid the balance in the midst of this ‘known event’? Our insurer, LV (annual, multi trip, family policy with winter sports) assure us that as the policy was in place when the holiday was booked, and when the situation arose, we are fully covered should it not go ahead. Good service, as long as it pans out as above.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Had a week booked in Pas De La Casa with Andorra Holidays. Would have been my third trip this season but hey ho. Advised of closure at 1pm Friday. Full refund in my account same day! Well done them.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@FrediKanoute, it's not a "normal" business condition but it is still a one in a hundred year event as you said yourself. It could be planned for. I am personally insured for a one in a hundred year risk of flooding in my home. I am not criticizing their business decision not to insure themselves properly. It's their choice, their risk. I am criticizing the fact that they are trying to avoid responsibility now and "socialize the loss". I am criticizing this attitude I have seen that it's the customer's insurance that should cover a risk the business was taking.

And I don't feel entitled to a specific price on my holidays. You assumptions are incorrect.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hotel le Morgane in Chamonix, didn’t even have to finish my sentence - “ of course we will refund you everything “. So full deposit & a lift pass & breakfast deal, spoke yesterday, money sent over this morning. Southend Airport parking, nope, didn’t pay the extra £4 to get the cancellation deal & Alpybus, sticking by their T & C’s, 0% refund if cancelling within 7 days. That’s a bummer as we’ve used them a few times before. EasyJet, can’t see HMG advising against travel to Geneva by Thursday so will take the offer of a flight somewhere else.
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Our hotel (Bismarck in Bad HG) offered deposit refund or to move the booking to next year. I think Lufthansa were saying we could rebook the flights before the end of the year, might take a sumer holiday there instead.
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I won't name and shame, but both my apartment and snowboard school have said "no refund, claim on insurance". Insurance say "no FCO restriction, no claim" about the accommodation and "if they cancelled they should pay" about the lessons. The accommodation I think is a lost cause because I cancelled it, but I'm trying S75 for the lessons.
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exx3001 wrote:
@FrediKanoute, it's not a "normal" business condition but it is still a one in a hundred year event as you said yourself. It could be planned for. I am personally insured for a one in a hundred year risk of flooding in my home. I am not criticizing their business decision not to insure themselves properly. It's their choice, their risk. I am criticizing the fact that they are trying to avoid responsibility now and "socialize the loss". I am criticizing this attitude I have seen that it's the customer's insurance that should cover a risk the business was taking.

And I don't feel entitled to a specific price on my holidays. You assumptions are incorrect.


....and if meeting their responsibility to you means that they go bust and their suppliers don't get paid, their staff don't get paid, aren't you also socialising your loss?

Rightly or wrongly you entered into a contract with an expectation that the TO/Chalet would meet their obligations - how much did you really know about them? Did you delve into their finances to work out if they were a financially sound business? Without knowing what you did, I can hazard a guess that what you did was book the trip and take out insurance.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here - plenty of shades of grey and plenty of winners and losers - it sucks from a consumer's perspective and yes if a TO or a Chalet owner did that to me I would not book or recommend people book with them, but I would also understand why they have taken that decision.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Top marks to Sunweb. They contacted me before my trip (should have been flying to Austria today) and offered a full refund. I've used them before and found them very efficient.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@king key, good to hear!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
vipul wrote:
YSE in Val disere height of irresponsibility we’re still offering to fly people out for a walking holiday !! No refund from them .
We emailed you last night saying we would be in touch. The offer of a walking holiday was before the resort was shut. You have twisted words.
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Mother hucker wrote:
hawkesbaynz wrote:
Booked Instructor led Guiding in Tignes with Ski Club GB next week. Received an email this am to confirm cancelled. Just called and arranged money back to my card. Good service Smile

what is the instructor led guiding like?


Wish I could report back it was great but....

Did it last year in VT. Excellent value for instructor led guiding with some fabs off-piste runs with a group of three others.

On a different note the cruise industry has cancelled all cruises until mid April and my line of choise offered 100% cash refunds or 125% Future Cruise Credit for those affected. My cruise on 1st may I anticipate will be cancelled too so will put that towards another trip.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Fiona0359 wrote:
vipul wrote:
YSE in Val disere height of irresponsibility we’re still offering to fly people out for a walking holiday !! No refund from them .
We emailed you last night saying we would be in touch. The offer of a walking holiday was before the resort was shut. You have twisted words.


And to me this is the problem with having a name and shame thread like this.......
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
We had it right up to the wire. Due to fly early Sun 15th and found out 11pm the night before that the resorts (Tignes, for us) was shutting up shop. So we didn't bother going to the airport.

Booked accom, ski hire and lift passes with Snowchateaux. For the ski hire and lift passes they said they will refund, but for the accom they told us to go to our insurance or credit card provider. I'm torn really, I'd appreciate a quick refund from SC themselves but I understand it's hard and best for them if we claim on our insurance. Afterall that's what it's for. Thoughts?

The problem with the insurance will be that as it stands there's still no FCO guidance not to travel to Geneva or France. SC seemed to be suggesting that they could have put us up still, even in the same breadth as explaining how they are concentrating on repatriating people! Puzzled

Going to have to wait for our return flights (EZY, Sun 22nd) to hopefully be cancelled in which case that should be a straightforward refund. My outbound flight with Swiss is now on an open ticket but they seemed to be insisting I'd have to pick another date to fly to Geneva, with no other options lol.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
My experience of unwinding a couple of ski trips:

ESF have promised full refund on lessons ✓
Grand Massif indicate full refund on ski passes bought online ✓
Erna Low say packages will be refunded ✓
Verbier 4 Valleys only offering next season credit Confused
Enterprise Car Hire already refunded ✓
Expedia say hotel in Verbier and one in Reims are Not Refundable Confused -- hopefully insurance will cover this
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Mother hucker wrote:
Warrem smith Academy giving no refunds on cancelled courses

skimottaret wrote:
@Mother hucker, wow really ?

Neither are BASI.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Skiworld (package booked) - was due to travel this coming weekend - website says they will be in contact with us.
Understand their priority is getting all current guests/staff home asap, therefore, happy to wait to be contacted - but wondering how long I should leave it before contacting them?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Got a text message from Jet2 today informing me that our flight booked for a week on Sunday has been cancelled and that a full refund will follow within 28 days.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have just had an email from Ryanair saying I can change my April flights free of charge, also suggesting I dont re-book during April.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
EasyJet cancelled our flights to Switzerland today. They offered full refund or change flight dates and destination. I took the refund. Should be paid within seven days.
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Go Montgenevre have offered us nothing except help with our insurance claim. Thanks guys.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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jirac18 wrote:
EasyJet cancelled our flights to Switzerland today. They offered full refund or change flight dates and destination. I took the refund. Should be paid within seven days.
When were your flights for? We're booked with easyJet for our return from Geneva to Luton on Sun 22nd. Hoping it will be a straightforward cancellation and money back.
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One thing this thread will be good for is discovering which insurance companies pay out. I emailed mine earlier re unused lessons / guiding no reply yet but I give them the benefit over that at this time.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Alpine Elements have suggested asking our insurers if they will pay for the package which was cancelled by them 8 hours before flight departure. They are ABTA. Rather surprised that they haven't offered full refund immediately, but that is what we expect from them. I believe other ABTA companies are offering full refunds.

snowHead
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I would be interested to know how many people are actually on the easyJet flights currently still flying all over Europe.
Europe is effectively closed and I can't help that think that easyJet are cynically operating flights purely to avoid having to refund cancellations.
Perhaps I am wrong
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Montana wrote:
My son and his friends have a post-graduation holiday booked with Jet2 Holidays for June, the balance of which is due 31/3. What to do, given things may still be in flux by then and we will have paid the balance in the midst of this ‘known event’? Our insurer, LV (annual, multi trip, family policy with winter sports) assure us that as the policy was in place when the holiday was booked, and when the situation arose, we are fully covered should it not go ahead. Good service, as long as it pans out as above.


We are due to go to Lanzarote in June and our balance is due by 31/3. I paid it yesterday on a credit card in the vain hope cash flow will help (though it’s v v small!) and on credit card so I can claim back if needed.its atol protected etc too. I’m being optimistic but now starting to suspect it won’t happen.
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YSE Val disere specialists offering nothing , said claim from your insurers
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