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Refunds and cancellations - who have been the good guys?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Was due to go to France with Esprit on 14th Mar. They offered full refund or credit for next season with additional £50 off per person. Opted for refund and got email today saying they have processed it, should appear in account in a couple of days.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
iomgirl wrote:
Thumbs down to Snowchateau - have absolutely flat out refused to refund us anything at all! Going to try and raise a dispute with ABTA
I just read their email. From the start they seemed a bit too quick for my liking to point us to insurance/credit cards.

That said, from the extra info given in the email- if that is passed along to your insurance company it should help the argument for a payout surely?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Just had a response from SkiFrance from my 4th April booking to Alpina Lodge in Val D'Isere - they are the UK arm of Madame Vacances. They are basically saying now the FCO has advised against travel in the next 30 days your insurance should cover it, so please go and ask them for a refund. I was suspecting they might go down the Pierre et Vacances route of re-schedule but no, nothing.

The icing on the cake was they did a "send to all" so 131 email addresses of their customers all visible - so adding a GDPR breach into the equation.
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Scam wrote:
iomgirl wrote:
Thumbs down to Snowchateau - have absolutely flat out refused to refund us anything at all! Going to try and raise a dispute with ABTA
I just read their email. From the start they seemed a bit too quick for my liking to point us to insurance/credit cards.

That said, from the extra info given in the email- if that is passed along to your insurance company it should help the argument for a payout surely?


Hopefully.. One of our party is a lawyer so we are letting them deal with the correspondence!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
iomgirl wrote:
Hopefully.. One of our party is a lawyer so we are letting them deal with the correspondence!
Would you be so kind to let me know what they think of it before I use it as documentation on my insurance claim please?

dunc999 wrote:
The icing on the cake was they did a "send to all" so 131 email addresses of their customers all visible - so adding a GDPR breach into the equation.
Oof that's a bad show.
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Got an email from Crystal today saying we may not be refunded until end of April. This is contrary to the promise it would be within 14 days on Saturday.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Snowchateaux arent ABTA bonded they just follow their code of conduct. So no chance via ABTA.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Nadenoodlee wrote:
Snowchateaux arent ABTA bonded they just follow their code of conduct. So no chance via ABTA.


Oh swearwords... Our friend also said not to hold our breath as what they have told us holds some validity. I think we are trying to argue that to rely on Force Majeure as they are trying to do, the booking must be changed or cancelled in accordance with their T&Cs. We've also asked for evidence of the company's expenditure and inability to recover the same but who knows.. I'll update here if we hear anything back.
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@iomgirl, @Nadenoodlee, but they should still be bound by the ABTA Code of Conduct? So if they don't refund (and are still in business) you should be able to take it to ABTA's ADR scheme.
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Vald'IsereLocation, no refund for our apartment. Not surprised.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Nadenoodlee, The major clue is they don't provide flights.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@chocksaway, yes I know, so the ABTA thing didn’t make sense, that’s why I went on their website, did a quick check and saved these people some time!

@ecureuil, they’ve basically bought a badge for their website. Code of conduct - yes but easy to dip out of? And no financial protection.

The whole ABTA scheme needs to be looked at to see if it’s still fit for purpose.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I'm still awaiting a reply from Ski Amis to my request for 20/21 replacement/credit, following their cancellation of 21-28 march in Les Menuires.
Meanwhile, swiss air have curtailed their online timetable for Heathrow to Geneva 21 march, return 28th. Unsurprisingly swiss have reduced it to a skeleton service. My flights (and most others) are now simply missing from the published timetable. But they havent sent me a cancellation notice. If I log into my flight account, my flights still appear, with a note saying "short term changes cannot be viewed". Obviously I want a refund but am unclear how to go about getting it, in the absence of a specific cancellation notification.
Any tips from fellow snowheads?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Eurotunnel still holding out and not stopping services but have the following message on the website:-
Last updated: 16:00 - 18/03/2020
Travel from the UK to France:
Our passenger shuttle services continue to operate. Please check carefully before travelling to Folkestone, as you may be turned away by the French Authorities if you don’t have good reason to travel within France. They have advised us that they will only allow travel for the following reasons:
Going home to a main residence
Essential work in France
Medical staff

I know they are offering free reschedules etc. but we have no idea if or when we can go again next year due to A levels etc., so in order to pursue a refund the onus is on me to sort it out through insurance.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Easyjet appear to have removed the option to receive a refund for my cancelled flight.

Their system was unavailable overnight as they implemented changes to their system.

I guess I now know why!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Got through on the phone and apparently the system is "not working correctly".

However, it will let me change flights, just not request refunds as it did yesterday.

Call me a cynic, but...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Update on my attempt to get a refund from Swiss air. I eventually got through on the phone. They say the relevant flights haven't been cancelled, they're just "not bookable any more" (huh?). So no refund. They will allow credit if I rebook before 31 Aug 20 for flights before 31 dec 20. Not sure how much use that will be. Even if ski resorts accessed via Geneva are fully reopened by december, I'll be reluctant to repeat the experience of booking a ski holiday separate from flights.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@peerless ploughman, can you check on Flightradar24 to see if your flight actually has a slot, an aircraft assigned, and then if it actually flies?
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Thanks Snowdave, the flight lx353 does still appear on flightradar and airport-london-heathrow. No idea why it's nonbookable, in the absence of skiers it can hardly be 100% full with bankers travelling to Geneva economy class on a saturday.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@peerless ploughman, Even if the flight was scheduled, I dont think Swiss would let you board. UKGOV say "Flights to Switzerland are subject to controls and inspections. Entry in to Switzerland via flights from the UK, Austria, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and all non-Schengen countries will now only be possible for Swiss citizens, residents, cross-border workers, those transiting with an onward ticket within the same day (not overnight) and those with “compelling reasons”." If Swiss are refusing a refund then I would go back to the credit card for the refund on the basis that Swiss cannot provide you with the service you booked.
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Thanks Snowdave, I'll probably have to do the same for what I've paid Ski Amis.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I don't think it's just the small providers going down this route. The fact that Easyjet have removed the means of automatically applying for a refund for cancelled flights in their overnight system update suggests they're trying to force this on customers now too.

I can only assume they've been overwhelmed with the number of people claiming the refunds they're entitled to and that their cash-flow is decimated.
ski holidays     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Apparently Ski Collection/Peak retreats, who are full ABTA members “have not cancelled your holiday” and therefore are not refunding or doing anything other than referring people to insurers. Except that for some reason they don’t want us to contact our insurers before tomorrow. Why on earth would that be?

Time to read back up the thread for those package holiday regs I think; was really hoping they’d be some of the good guys and offer vouchers or a refund rolling eyes
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TDC Val D'Isere (and I assume all their other resorts) have refused to refund - they have no force majeur clause in their T&Cs to invoke but refusing anyway. We are out of pocket to the tune of £1820 for our private lessons this week. Communication has been poor and unhelpful (it took 5 days for them to say they'd been consulting their lawyers since the resort closed) and they now have their instructors phoning round trying to sort things out as of this mroning, which I consider to be a) completely unfair on their instructors to be dealing with financial matters and b) unprofessional all round. It has now soured our personal relationship / friendship with our instructor whom we have been skiing with for 6 years. I am absolutely devastated TBH.

Our insurance is taking the same stance as marksmoo above - no payout as the French government shut down and the UK government didn't advise against travel at the point we left.
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Just send an email to Oxygene ski school to follow up, but just got an automated response saying the office is closed and they'll get back to me when they can. I'm starting to suspect I'll get nothing back.
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swoafs wrote:
Apparently Ski Collection/Peak retreats, who are full ABTA members “have not cancelled your holiday” ...

That's probably true. Neither they nor you have cancelled your holiday. A third party, such as a govenment, have deemed it can't take place.

Ski Collections are no more "at fault" than you are.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@ecureuil - that appears to be the view of the lawyers - they used that exact wording in our TDC message. Lessons were not cancelled, therefore no refund due. It's all poo-poo all round - I don't want our instructor to not be paid when he has no work, but I also have no work now either, so could really do with my £2k back (or at least a voucher for next year - that would also be ok).

I am planning to make an S75 claim but Lloyds have said I have to wait 15 days from when the service was due, so going to need to give it another week or so until I can action this.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Interesting discussion on the latest Ski Podcast on the future of small ski operators and the claiming back of monies from the early closure of the season
snow conditions     
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Snowbandit56 wrote:
A big thumbs up for Crystal, got an email on Thursday evening advising that our two booked trips one to Bad Hofgastein for this week and Obergurgl next month were cancelled and refunds would arrive to cards used within 14 days. Checked my finances this morning both full payments were credited yesterday. Well done guys


I think you are extremely lucky.

Our refund was promised within 14 days (back on 14 March)

We then had a follow up email saying it might take up to end April...
ski holidays     
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Isnt TDC a co-operative so instructors get part of the profit. I dont think they work just for wages.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
peerless ploughman wrote:
Update on my attempt to get a refund from Swiss air. I eventually got through on the phone. They say the relevant flights haven't been cancelled, they're just "not bookable any more" (huh?). So no refund. They will allow credit if I rebook before 31 Aug 20 for flights before 31 dec 20. Not sure how much use that will be. Even if ski resorts accessed via Geneva are fully reopened by december, I'll be reluctant to repeat the experience of booking a ski holiday separate from flights.


Before 32 Dec 20 you say? Perfect for the Pre-Season Bash...
snow conditions     
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
sheffskibod wrote:
Snowbandit56 wrote:
A big thumbs up for Crystal, got an email on Thursday evening advising that our two booked trips one to Bad Hofgastein for this week and Obergurgl next month were cancelled and refunds would arrive to cards used within 14 days. Checked my finances this morning both full payments were credited yesterday. Well done guys


I think you are extremely lucky.

Our refund was promised within 14 days (back on 14 March)

We then had a follow up email saying it might take up to end April...

Hey all,
Another thumbs up for Crystal from me too...
Due Austria 14th - Closure announced around 8pm on the 12th
Email from Crystal assuring full refund at 8:15pm also on the 12th
Card refunded on the 16th
Good service
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hells Bells wrote:
@CaravanSkier, I ordered a small shop for delivery on Tuesday for my son who was coming home before us. We got Mulligatawny soup instead of pea and ham, but most other things were surprisingly either suitable, or delivered.
Courgettes are vile things, but I suspect lack of delivery from Spain may be an issue. but low alcohol beer is a crap one.
I've just done a cupboard and freezer list using Alexa, she's now gone on strike. Laughing

The only substitution in my Ocado delivery on Tuesday evening was some slightly expensive organic tinned kidney beans rather than the cheap ones I ordered. I was quite impressed. Similar story with this evening's order.
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@holidayloverxx, best we wait for Steve Angus's reply!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
peerless ploughman wrote:
Thanks Snowdave, the flight lx353 does still appear on flightradar and airport-london-heathrow. No idea why it's nonbookable, in the absence of skiers it can hardly be 100% full with bankers travelling to Geneva economy class on a saturday.


We're on the same flight tomorrow, or not. Swiss Air not being very clear on the situation.
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sugarmoma666 wrote:
Hells Bells wrote:
@CaravanSkier, I ordered a small shop for delivery on Tuesday for my son who was coming home before us. We got Mulligatawny soup instead of pea and ham, but most other things were surprisingly either suitable, or delivered.
Courgettes are vile things, but I suspect lack of delivery from Spain may be an issue. but low alcohol beer is a crap one.
I've just done a cupboard and freezer list using Alexa, she's now gone on strike. Laughing

The only substitution in my Ocado delivery on Tuesday evening was some slightly expensive organic tinned kidney beans rather than the cheap ones I ordered. I was quite impressed. Similar story with this evening's order.


Good to hear things are working ok in some instances. It gives me hope!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Jet2 refunded our flights to Salzburg after a quick call. Good work.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Shall be trying the insurance again re our lessons, 1K down and no response to emails sent. I expect it's lost.
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chocksaway wrote:
@holidayloverxx, best we wait for Steve Angus's reply!


I was told by a TDC instructor albeit some years ago
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Thumbs up to NewGen from me - they gave me three options:

1) Claim from insurance - and get a 50% credit until April 2025 on top

The next two were if you can't do 1:

2) 110% credit note valid until April 2025 OR
3) 50% refund and a 30% credit note valid until April 2025.

I should point out that their T&Cs state that if *we* cancel, it's only a 50% refund if it's four weeks or less until ski school starts (and it drops even more closer to the time) so they're going beyond that as most had under four weeks left.

Given for various complicated reasons it seems our insurance won't cover lessons, I'm more than happy with their 110% offer, especially if it keeps money in the bank for them so they *can* teach @sparklies_baby in another year.
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